Chapter 33

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Chapter 33

Postby Freakzilla » 01 Mar 2008 12:43

If you know all of your ancestors, you were a personal witness to the events
which created the myths and religions of our past. Recognizing this, you must
think of me as a myth-maker.

-The Stolen Journals

The Ixian embassy comes under attack by explosives from Face Dancers and a rebel splinter group. Leto is furious, a feeling he hasn't felt in a long time. He speeds from his crypt beneath the city to the surface and dives his cart into the attackers, spilling himself in front of the embassy where he thrashes and rolls around, smashing them. The Fish Speakers stand there in awe until one orders them to pick off the straglers. Blood seeping between Leto's segments agonizes him, it is buffeted water and poisonous to him. He is prepared for such a thing though and retreats to a cleansing room in the crypt that dries him with hot air jets. He orders Hwi summoned and has a message sent to Anteac saying this is why her quarters are so far away from him. She is to link up with the commander of the Fish Speaker garrison on Ix, find Malky, and either kill him or bring him back, he is not to remain alive and free. He sends out an order to save some of the Face Dancers. He calls Nayla and orders her to reveal to Siona that she is a Fish Speaker but that she is sworn to obey Siona in all things. She is to find opportunities to get Duncan and Siona alone together.

Leto tells Hwi that this was to test how much Leto values Hwi and he gives her an opportunity to reconsider their marriage. She must not try to dispell the nasty rumors about him, when he's gone they must call him Shaitan. Long after that the hate will fade until one day his journals will be found and people will learn that he wasn't what they thought. She is not to interfere with Siona, she was bred to rule however the Fish Speakers will follow Duncan. He tells her he will arrange a performance of the surviving Face Dancers tomorrow, afterwards, he will announce their wedding.

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Re: Chapter 32

Postby grandmastercrafter » 16 Jul 2010 11:08

Thing directed me to this chapter RE my question as to what could damage/kill Leto - real threats... In this chapter, there is a reference to "he felt lasgun beams tickle his ribbed body" (p.248) during the attack, that seems to refer to the inability of the lasgun fire to do any real damage to him during the attack... (RE Chap 3 discussion on whether or not lasguns are a real threat to Leto or not) there was no mention of any concern on Leto's part specific to the lasgun fire damage to his person as far as I can see during rereads - Leto did remark that "I could have died out there" (p.250) but I got that he was referring to a) the fact that it was a targeted assassination attempt and b) the severe water-damage described (due to the blood seeping between his segments), as opposed to danger from the conventional weapons seen in the attack. Any glaring (or not so glaring) flaws in my observation? :think:

Maybe assassins should have been using water guns. A super-soaker assassination attempt? Death by water-balloon? Why would the Duncans, who all know about the obvious sandworm vulnerabilities to water from their first life, not use water to try to kill Leto in their attempts, rather than (imho) minimally effective or completely ineffective lasguns and explosives and the like? Even storing his urine in containers and then throwing it at Leto would do more damage, no? :lol:

(using June 87 Ace edition printing of GEoD RE page references)
Last edited by grandmastercrafter on 16 Jul 2010 17:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chapter 32

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 16 Jul 2010 11:40

Hmm, maybe you're right, the lasguns we're necessarily the threat.
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Re: Chapter 32

Postby Freakzilla » 16 Jul 2010 11:51

I think the attackers were using explosives, too.

As for attacking Leto with water, how do you propose to do that? Security seems pretty tight on Arrakis. Plus, he's prescient. The Guild? They depend on him for their spice. The guy lived for 3,500 years. I think HE chose when he was ready to die.
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Re: Chapter 32

Postby grandmastercrafter » 16 Jul 2010 12:20

Freakzilla wrote:I think the attackers were using explosives, too.

As for attacking Leto with water, how do you propose to do that? Security seems pretty tight on Arrakis. Plus, he's prescient. The Guild? They depend on him for their spice. The guy lived for 3,500 years. I think HE chose when he was ready to die.


Hmmmm - I thought it was clear that he deliberately chose not to see the moments when he would die, no? I'll see if I can dredge up references, but I don't have them on the tip of my tongue... Although your other point on security are solid - but Duncan was the leader of Leto's security/guards, no? And he managed to smuggle in explosives and lasguns on two separate occasions (both resulting in his death, but still), so how much harder would it be to either a) smuggle in a bunch of water balloons/water guns/small vases/glasses of water or b) pee on him :lol: ?

It may actually be rather difficult RE water, with his worm body all sensitive to moisture and all that... don't recall if Leto could sense water near him via smell or some other esoteric worm-senses... I'll bounce around GEoD later this weekend and see :)
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Re: Chapter 32

Postby Freakzilla » 16 Jul 2010 13:31

I often think about my final metamorphosis, that likeness of death. I know the
way it must come but I do not know the moment or the other players. This is the
one thing I cannot know. I only know whether the Golden Path continues or ends.

...

"You know how you will die?"
"Not how. I know only the Golden Path in which it will occur."

...

Leto squirmed away and went to the shadowed limit of the chamber, keeping his
attention on the faint arc of a line which would become an opening into the
night if he merely converted the wish into a thought-of-command. What a long
drop that would be out there-just roll off the landing-lip. He doubted that even
his body would survive it. But there was no water in the sand beneath his tower
and he could feel the Golden Path winking in and out of existence merely because
he allowed himself to think of such an end.

~GEoD

Leto could not allow himself to die until the GP was properly set up. I'm sure he used his prescience to prevent his premature death.
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Re: Chapter 32

Postby Freakzilla » 16 Jul 2010 13:36

grandmastercrafter wrote:... don't recall if Leto could sense water near him via smell or some other esoteric worm-senses... I'll bounce around GEoD later this weekend and see :)


Of course he could.

I am beginning to hate water. The sandtrout skin which impels my metamorphosis
has learned the sensitivities of the worm. Moneo and many of my guards know my
aversion, Only Moneo suspects the truth, that this marks an important waypoint.
I can feel my ending in it, not soon as Moneo measures time, but soon enough as
I endure it. Sandtrout swarmed to water in the Dune days, a problem during the
early stages of our symbiosis. The enforcement of my will power controlled the
urge then, and until we reached a time of balance. Now, I must avoid water
because there are no other sandtrout, only the half dormant creatures of my
skin. Without sandtrout to bring this world back to desert, Shai-Hulud will not
emerge; the sandworm cannot evolve until the land is parched. I am their only
hope.

-The Stolen Journals
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

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Re: Chapter 32

Postby grandmastercrafter » 16 Jul 2010 17:18

grandmastercrafter wrote:It may actually be rather difficult RE water, with his worm body all sensitive to moisture and all that... don't recall if Leto could sense water near him via smell or some other esoteric worm-senses... I'll bounce around GEoD later this weekend and see :)

yes - I know he was sensitive to moisture, I was saying that I didn't remember the how/why of it... 'senses'-wise... and the question still remains, if everyone other than Leto is still human enough to possess a stomach or bladder, parts of the body that can and do hold water, then that quantity of water is obviously not raising any alarms anywhere, right? Stuff a man full of water and have him vomit on Leto to cause damage... more than with a conventional weapon anyways.

Freakzilla wrote:I am beginning to hate water. The sandtrout skin which impels my metamorphosis
has learned the sensitivities of the worm. Moneo and many of my guards know my
aversion, Only Moneo suspects the truth, that this marks an important waypoint.
I can feel my ending in it, not soon as Moneo measures time, but soon enough as
I endure it. Sandtrout swarmed to water in the Dune days, a problem during the
early stages of our symbiosis. The enforcement of my will power controlled the
urge then, and until we reached a time of balance. Now, I must avoid water
because there are no other sandtrout, only the half dormant creatures of my
skin. Without sandtrout to bring this world back to desert, Shai-Hulud will not
emerge; the sandworm cannot evolve until the land is parched. I am their only
hope.

-The Stolen Journals

This quote doesn't tell the how/why of it - what sense is used by the sandtrout skin - so would that fall under 'esoteric worm-senses'? - but I thought there was some reference to exactly what sense it was... that's what I can't remember.

Freakzilla wrote:I often think about my final metamorphosis, that likeness of death. I know the
way it must come but I do not know the moment or the other players. This is the
one thing I cannot know. I only know whether the Golden Path continues or ends.

Thanks! This is one of the quotes I was thinking of: Here it seems to state clearly that he cannot know the the details of his 'death', but that he can predict the success or failure of the Golden Path based on different aspects of - and in order for the Golden Path to continue his death must happen in a specific way - "the way it must come" (can't continue on that vein without spoilers... Thing gave me some guidance on how you'd rather we discuss only chapter specific issues in these reading threads)

Freakzilla wrote:"You know how you will die?"
"Not how. I know only the Golden Path in which it will occur."

I read this as saying, again, that he knows what kind of 'death' of his is required to keep humanity on the Golden Path - the path to survival.

Freakzilla wrote:Leto squirmed away and went to the shadowed limit of the chamber, keeping his
attention on the faint arc of a line which would become an opening into the
night if he merely converted the wish into a thought-of-command. What a long
drop that would be out there-just roll off the landing-lip. He doubted that even
his body would survive it. But there was no water in the sand beneath his tower
and he could feel the Golden Path winking in and out of existence merely because
he allowed himself to think of such an end.
~GEoD

Leto could not allow himself to die until the GP was properly set up. I'm sure he used his prescience to prevent his premature death.


I think that can be more accurately stated that Leto could not allow himself to die unless that death allowed for the continuation of the Golden Path, but the phrasing 'properly set up' implies that he was setting up something, as opposed to seeing a possible future that would result from the reality of the moment. There is merit in what you're saying though... he may have used his prescience to his benefit in the way you say, but I think there are additional references to how he just did not look at the moment of his own actual death... not that he could not, but that he would not... I'll see if I can find quotes and I'll PM you before posting anymore here to see if you concur, but please let me know if you see I'm missing something.

Now this kind of discussion is what I came here for! Yeah!(I'm all like excited and shit) :clap:

- hey - do you have a full online version of GEoD? or are you typing everything out (the way that I've been doing) from a printed copy?
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Re: Chapter 33

Postby Freakzilla » 27 Jul 2012 12:05

Revised, cleaned.
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Re: Chapter 33

Postby Freakzilla » 27 Jul 2012 12:08

Leto used his prescience mainly to ensure the GP continued but would not look at the moment of his death. If there had been a real danger to his life I think he would have noticed the GP ending. However, this attack was planned by Malky in the Ixian no-field...
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