What rankles

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Schu
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What rankles

Postby Schu » 19 Dec 2008 13:40

I maybe wouldn't be as bothered by KJA&BH's writing if it weren't for the fact that I KNOW I would have liked it as a kid (for reference, I read Dune when I was 14 first and I pretty much completely understood it, probably would have a few years before this. By kid, I mean around about 7, I was pretty precocious I guess. But about my teens I would have viewed it as condescending).

If I would have liked it as a kid, lots of other kids that would grow into sensible adults would too.

I hate the idea that these could become a popular set of books for people not yet ready for the intricacies of Frank's work. Why so much? Because My order of reading Dune books was thus:

Dune

Snippets of GEoD and CH:D, because they were there and I couldn't resist taking a little look...

Children of Dune (found it at a garage sale, couldn't resist plunging right into it)

Dune Messiah

House Atreides (OH NO! Well, I liked it for about half of it's length because it seemed like it was giving me some answers to questions I had, but bit by bit it dawned on me that things were amiss. I bought that at a bookstore too, so it supported the new writers :( )

House Harkonnen (got this one at a used bookstore, so that was ok. I was still hoping things would get better)

House Corrino (well, I had to finish. I just read this at Borders and never bought it)

The second trilogy

The sequels (couldn't resist, needed to see whether it might have improved by being supposedly based on an extensive outline by FH, read these at Borders).

Never read any other "dune" books and don't intend on it.

So I read the house series before the second three FH novels. That means:

- tleilaxu religion was completely spoilered for me

- axolotl tanks spoilered

These were terrific surprises for most people, right? It seems like they would have been. They weren't for me. I was just left wondering why the decided to use this information in a series they surely wanted people to read before Dune.

So, the prequels actually lessened my enjoyment of Frank's books. That is what rankles. And it could only be made worse by actually reading the books in chronological order.

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A Thing of Eternity
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 19 Dec 2008 13:46

Yarr, it's just like Byron says, "the new books don't do any harm to the old ones". Yup.




Oh, wait. The answer was NO, not yarr. :roll:


I consider myself luck I read all the FH book first. Very lucky.
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Postby GamePlayer » 19 Dec 2008 13:57

Several issues.

One, give yourself some credit. You made it through the shit storm and came out a better person. You also learned from your mistakes.

Two, shit products will sell. It's a fact of life. They sold long before the exploitation of Dune and they will sell afterward. Accept it as a fact of life.

Three, accept that stupidity is a reality of life. Some people will like KJA no matter how awful he is. Some people will like KJA just to spite other people and some people will actually enjoy KJA for no other reason than to be contrary.
"They can chew you up, but they gotta spit you out."

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Postby Schu » 19 Dec 2008 14:06

GamePlayer wrote:Three, accept that stupidity is a reality of life. Some people will like KJA no matter how awful he is. Some people will like KJA just to spite other people and some people will actually enjoy KJA for no other reason than to be contrary.


People can enjoy KJA. I don't particularly care about that. My point is that I would have liked it when I was much younger.

If the prequels had merely been a little bit of pulp reading and vague introduction to Dune, I would merely say "OK, Dune's a better introduction, but whatever, it's something people can enjoy before they go on to the masterpiece when they're ready for it." Instead, the prequels actually spoil some things which should have been great surprises, brilliant twists of the story. Instead, they were merely moments of "Oh, so KJA/BH weren't actually on crack when he made Tleilaxu religious and axolotl tanks bloated women, they were merely being pricks".

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Postby GamePlayer » 19 Dec 2008 14:25

I think you're being far too hard on yourself. I also think you're not putting things in perspective.

Yes, I admit, there is harm in the perpetuation of KJA's crap and we'd be better off without it. Yes, some people will be lured in by him, ignorantly enjoying crap the rest of their lives. And yes, some will even like it, grow out of it, and be forever jaded such that they never actually read Frank Herbert's orginals. But have a little faith. The very reason you're lamenting your once misplaced taste for KJA is also the reason why he won't last. Most people buy KJA's Dune books because they have fond memories of Dune. But those people are slowly aging and eventually, they will stop buying books.

While some "Dune fans" are being made from KJA's books, they are not lasting fans, they have little credibility and they have little influence. They do not champion the genius of KJA. They do not join official websites, get censored and build fan dwellings devoted to his true voice. They do not become a lasting critical establishment that praises his books once past their expiry date. They do not ensure the books remain classics by handing them down to their children or by espousing their virtues. Those that try, fail because for better or worse, KJA's trash is just trash.

Like KJA himself laments, he is no "critical darling" and neither will his books ever be so.

Once the generation that grew up on Frank Herbert's Dune actually grows up and stops buying the shitty prequels, that will be the end of KJA. That end is already beginning. Yes, it's been a long and terrible regime of published mediocrity. Yes, the exploitation of Frank Herbert should never have been allowed to happen. "But the night is always darkest before the dawn. And I promise you...the dawn is coming" :)
"They can chew you up, but they gotta spit you out."

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Postby Schu » 19 Dec 2008 14:49

GamePlayer wrote:I think you're being far too hard on yourself. I also think you're not putting things in perspective.

Yes, I admit, there is harm in the perpetuation of KJA's crap and we'd be better off without it. Yes, some people will be lured in by him, ignorantly enjoying crap the rest of their lives. And yes, some will even like it, grow out of it, and be forever jaded such that they never actually read Frank Herbert's orginals. But have a little faith. The very reason you're lamenting your once misplaced taste for KJA is also the reason why he won't last. Most people buy KJA's Dune books because they have fond memories of Dune. But those people are slowly aging and eventually, they will stop buying books.

While some "Dune fans" are being made from KJA's books, they are not lasting fans, they have little credibility and they have little influence. They do not champion the genius of KJA. They do not join official websites, get censored and build fan dwellings devoted to his true voice. They do not become a lasting critical establishment that praises his books once past their expiry date. They do not ensure the books remain classics by handing them down to their children or by espousing their virtues. Those that try, fail because for better or worse, KJA's trash is just trash.

Like KJA himself laments, he is no "critical darling" and neither will his books ever be so.

Once the generation that grew up on Frank Herbert's Dune actually grows up and stops buying the shitty prequels, that will be the end of KJA. That end is already beginning. Yes, it's been a long and terrible regime of published mediocrity. Yes, the exploitation of Frank Herbert should never have been allowed to happen. "But the night is always darkest before the dawn. And I promise you...the dawn is coming" :)


I'm not being hard on myself, nor do I consider my taste to have been misplaced, just, y'know, primitive. Their writing does have certain positive elements, after all, and at a certain age, I could have ignored (or possibly even been too young to notice) their failings.

I'm more annoyed that (at least for this generation of readers) there will be so much spoilering of such great work. Hopefully you're right about it being not a lastingthing. I'm undecided.

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Postby GamePlayer » 19 Dec 2008 15:08

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I encountered yet another forum where KJA is trashed while the originals are praised, again proving widespread criticism of this hack and appreciation for Frank. Enjoy :)

quotes taken from gamers forum wrote:
  1. (OP)I'm rereading this book for maybe the fourth or fifth time in my life. If you haven't read it, it's amazing. In fact, it's so good that I started to think, "Maybe I'll give the sequels (written by Frank Herbert, not his hack son and Kevin Anderson) another shot.
  2. I read six books, besides the first one I enjoyed the third and fourth a lot...
  3. Hmmm, I seem to remember #4: God Emperor of Dune as my favorite, though the original was pretty close too.
  4. Leto II is awesome.
  5. Frank Herbert's Dune is fantastic. A true classic of literature. I've read it several times and I recommend it to everyone. I've always said that if a person reads only one sci-fi novel, it should be Dune. The prequels and other "random collections of words" by KJA and the other guy aren't worth being used as toilet paper, IMO.
"They can chew you up, but they gotta spit you out."

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Postby Schu » 19 Dec 2008 15:24

Well, that is nice to hear.

Well, I have to say, I've never heard anyone enjoy the "new dune" books that I respected, other than a very small amount of people I've met on dune boards, and all of them enjoyed FH's books much more.

:)

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Postby TheDukester » 19 Dec 2008 15:53

"Random collection of words" ... that's a nice one. :)
"Anything I write will be remembered and listed in bibliographies on Dune for several hundred years ..." — some delusional halfwit troll.


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