why the coin in the watertank (PoD) nags me

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why the coin in the watertank (PoD) nags me

Postby cmsahe » 26 Dec 2008 15:00

GEoD, pocketbook edition p.369.

"Nayla accepted a bunch of flowers from one of the children, sniffed them and sneezed.
Another urchin extended flowers toward Siona, lifting a wide-eyed stare toward her. She accepted the flowers without looking at the child. Idaho merely waved the children aside as they approached him. They hesitated, staring up at him, then scurried around him toward the rest of the troop.
Garun spoke to Idaho. "If you give them a few coins, they will not bother you."
Idaho shuddered. Was this the training for Fremen children?"


******
now I'll go and share this same concern with "them"
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Postby SandChigger » 26 Dec 2008 19:33

I'm not really sure I'm seeing your point or the connection, other than the coins.

There's a considerable difference between a group of badly portrayed Fremen warriors in an implausible scene where they're ordered to dive into a deep pool to retrieve a gold coin (I think maybe I agree with whoever pointed it out here, that it's just offered as a goal, not meant as a payment incentive...it could have been a rock. But I've forgotten my copy in the office and can't check that chapter at the moment) and a group of children of the degenerate Museum Fremen thousands of years later soliciting a few coins for flowers from tourists.

Look at it this way: there's been no evidence whatsoever provided even hinting that the pool scene was something they found in Frank Herbert's notes. We are therefore free to assume that it is something Kevin (or the other guy) came up with on their own. (That's what it really feels like, no?)

So ... it never happened.

If it's not Frank Herbert's idea, it never happened in the true Duniverse. And even if Frank Herbert himself wrote it (like the Leto-Jessica meeting scene included by the hacks in House Harkonnen) but never published it in one of his books and it contradicts something in a published book...it also never ever happened.
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Postby Freakzilla » 26 Dec 2008 19:39

It's just a quote, what's the concern?
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re:

Postby cmsahe » 26 Dec 2008 20:19

The horror felt by Duncan Idaho, that a urchin greedy for a few coins cannot be, it isn't a Fremen.

In PoD that boy almost drowns to recover the gold.
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Postby SandChigger » 26 Dec 2008 22:26

No, he almost drowns to receive a blessing from Muad'Dib. Reread the passage. The task he must perform to receive that blessing is to retrieve the coin from the pool. He does not do it for monetary gain.

Misrepresenting what they have written does not win an argument. Or help our cause. Misreading is what they do.

I have to agree with Schu on the other thread: simply quoting something with a suggestive (thread) title makes people have to try to guess what you want to say. While there's nothing wrong with trying to make people think once in a while, it's a lot more helpful if you explain.

(Pardon the unpleasant comparison, but that is one of the things arnoldo used to do that drove us up the wall. Especially Freak, who got after him about it several times over on Arrakeen, the board that Hyppo killed.)
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re:

Postby cmsahe » 27 Dec 2008 01:43

And on this subject I must confess that I've only read (from KJA) the Houses Trilogy. That water tank sequence, I read the on line excerpt.

No, I'm not willingly misrepresenting their ideas nor flaming nor spamming the other forum.

even more my conceptions are all based on the threads published by all of you here.

The thread title "Good deed of the day" I only used it here as a wink to all of you. Over there I titled it: "the truth on Vladimir Harkonnen Obesity".

Fremen or Fremen museum boys going after coins nags me because what does a fremen need gold for? It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it, being wrong, then it can be discussed.


SandChigger wrote:No, he almost drowns to receive a blessing from Muad'Dib. Reread the passage. The task he must perform to receive that blessing is to retrieve the coin from the pool. He does not do it for monetary gain.

Misrepresenting what they have written does not win an argument. Or help our cause. Misreading is what they do.

I have to agree with Schu on the other thread: simply quoting something with a suggestive (thread) title makes people have to try to guess what you want to say. While there's nothing wrong with trying to make people think once in a while, it's a lot more helpful if you explain.

(Pardon the unpleasant comparison, but that is one of the things arnoldo used to do that drove us up the wall. Especially Freak, who got after him about it several times over on Arrakeen, the board that Hyppo killed.)
Only the books written by Frank Herbert are canon.


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Postby Schu » 27 Dec 2008 02:04

Listen cmsahe, I understand why you're being defensive, I did put my point pretty aggressively to you, but Chig did not say you were wilfully misrepresenting anything, just misreading/misrepresenting it. No wilful.

So I'm sorry if I was the one that put you on the defensive here, but Chig was not attacking you, just pointing out the flaws in your reasoning and giving you some advice. He's a lot gentler than I am ;) try not to take it personally, we're a picky bunch.

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Postby SandRider » 27 Dec 2008 03:05

cmsahe wrote:even more my conceptions are all based on the threads published by all of you here.



That could be a dangerous thing ....
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Postby Schu » 27 Dec 2008 03:20

SandRider wrote:
cmsahe wrote:even more my conceptions are all based on the threads published by all of you here.



That could be a dangerous thing ....


Indeed, something like distorted history upon distorted history etc., like a certain distasteful someone thought FH's work is :P

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re:

Postby cmsahe » 28 Dec 2008 02:23

Schu wrote:Listen cmsahe, I understand why you're being defensive, I did put my point pretty aggressively to you, but Chig did not say you were wilfully misrepresenting anything, just misreading/misrepresenting it. No wilful.

So I'm sorry if I was the one that put you on the defensive here, but Chig was not attacking you, just pointing out the flaws in your reasoning and giving you some advice. He's a lot gentler than I am ;) try not to take it personally, we're a picky bunch.


Hi Schu, there is a study on the difficulty that represents the Internet to convey the emotions, meaning of words and mood of the people who is trying to chat or interchange information in a Message Board. If we were all together talking and watching a football game I'm sure we would be having an amenable time. :)

So what's that thing about a tranvestite robot (Ommious or something like that...)in the KJA/BH Dune series? (I'm not buying their books...) US7.99 plus shipping and handling that's a lot for me.
Only the books written by Frank Herbert are canon.


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Postby cmsahe » 28 Dec 2008 02:26

SandRider wrote:
cmsahe wrote:even more my conceptions are all based on the threads published by all of you here.



That could be a dangerous thing ....
Yes I'm doing the: "The friend of my uncle's cousin heard that they are saying that my girlfriend's aunt said that thing" :) (But I'm reading the Amazon reviews and the Wikipedia articles on the KJA/BH books) :P
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Re: re:

Postby Schu » 28 Dec 2008 08:49

cmsahe wrote:
Schu wrote:Listen cmsahe, I understand why you're being defensive, I did put my point pretty aggressively to you, but Chig did not say you were wilfully misrepresenting anything, just misreading/misrepresenting it. No wilful.

So I'm sorry if I was the one that put you on the defensive here, but Chig was not attacking you, just pointing out the flaws in your reasoning and giving you some advice. He's a lot gentler than I am ;) try not to take it personally, we're a picky bunch.


Hi Schu, there is a study on the difficulty that represents the Internet to convey the emotions, meaning of words and mood of the people who is trying to chat or interchange information in a Message Board. If we were all together talking and watching a football game I'm sure we would be having an amenable time. :)

So what's that thing about a tranvestite robot (Ommious or something like that...)in the KJA/BH Dune series? (I'm not buying their books...) US7.99 plus shipping and handling that's a lot for me.


Yes indeed. One of the most important things in an internet setting is to not automatically take things personally: after all, it is just a bunch of disembodied words from someone half way across the world.

On the other hand, I don't watch football, american or otherwise... tennis I'll watch though, Ana Ivanovic is a hottie!

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Postby SandChigger » 02 Jan 2009 02:22

Yo, Carlos!

You got a bite on the line on this one over on Dumb Novels!

(But don't get too excited. It's just some pretend Dune fan rehashing stuff we've already discussed here. ;) )
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