Memo to By-By and Bri-Bri: THIS is how you do it

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TheDukester
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Memo to By-By and Bri-Bri: THIS is how you do it

Postby TheDukester » 07 Jan 2009 14:18

Christopher Tolkien to oversee production of another of his father's so-called "lost" works, this time a version of a classic Norse legend:

http://www.thecimmerian.com/?p=2763

See, HLP, it's not that hard. It's okay to actually get involved ... you know, with things like making sure your own blood relative's work and legacy is treated with respect and care. It's okay to roll your sleeves up and become part of the process.

Or ... you could just kick back, hire the world's most notorious rent-a-hack to hike out an annual rewrite of one of his failed Star Wars manuscripts, and take those checks to the bank. The only trade-off is forever tarnishing one of the world's literary treasures, but hell with it, right? As long as the checks are on time.
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Postby Tleszer » 07 Jan 2009 14:51

I've been interested in The Ring Cycle since I started studying Wagner's take on it in a music class. I may have to check it out.

Duke, I'm sure JRRT's notes were more extensive than what Bri-Bri and Kev discovered, hence why Chris Tolkien's work on his father's notes don't suck. Then again, there were supposedly 1000s of pages of notes so what do I know. :roll:
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Postby Freakzilla » 07 Jan 2009 15:08

Tleszer wrote:Then again, there were supposedly 1000s of pages of notes so what do I know. :roll:


The notes (found in Brian's garage) and the "Dune 7" outline (safe deposit box) are two seperate things and depending on which interview you want to belive, the outline length ranges from "a detailed and complete outline" to a "2-1/2 page roadmap or guide".

I don't think Pinky & The Brian could have done a good job with a trillion pages of notes.
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Postby TheDukester » 07 Jan 2009 15:23

Tleszer wrote:Duke, I'm sure JRRT's notes were more extensive than what Bri-Bri and Kev discovered, hence why Chris Tolkien's work on his father's notes don't suck.

I'd argue there's much more to it than that. There's attitude and respect, just to name two. I couldn't give a shit about who has how many pages of notes, where they found them, and if they're any good or not.

Christopher Tolkien (and, by extension, whatever literary trust that the Tolkien estate might have set up for various people) has chosen to treat J.R.R.'s work and legacy with respect and care. Christopher is also smart enough to realize that he's not much of a writer and that, even if he were, it would be professional suicide to attempt to "add to" the Lord of the Rings saga with completely new material. Instead, he pours his energy into actively editing and overseeing all aspects of his father's posthumous publications.

Compare and contrast with the Herbert estate. Everything you need to know about these people begins and ends with their hiring of a self-absorbed hack "writer" of X-Files novelizations obsessed with his status in the history of SF writing.

I'm not saying that Christopher Tolkien isn't depositing any checks; of course he is. But he respects the work and the legacy, and he gets involved. He didn't sell his father out in some cynical 10-books-in-10-years fanfic series that allegedly would "add" to the LotR saga.
Last edited by TheDukester on 07 Jan 2009 15:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Freakzilla » 07 Jan 2009 15:32

TheDukester wrote:Compare and contract...


I'm sure you meant contrast, right? :P
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Postby TheDukester » 07 Jan 2009 15:38

Lawl ... yes, it looks like my digits were flying around the keyboard a bit too quick.
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Postby Freakzilla » 07 Jan 2009 15:39

TheDukester wrote:Lawl ... yes, it looks like my digits were flying around the keyboard a bit too quick.


Where Pinky & The Brian are milking the cash cow, contract is probably more apropo.
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Postby SandChigger » 07 Jan 2009 16:06

ZING! :D
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Postby SandRider » 07 Jan 2009 16:49

Right after Tolkien died, his son went in to the office at his home,
which was mostly off-limits - he cataloged the material right then
and there, literally boxes and boxes of notes, outlines, old manuscripts,
draft versions on top of draft versions.

Several weeks later he went to Tolkien's office at Oxford and found the
same thing, boxes and boxes of material. All of this material was cataloged.
So the Tolkien estate not only had a lot of material to work
with, they took time to sort thru it, and slowly assembled publication
material.

The first Christoper did of course, was get the Silmarillion into a publishable form, which he did with great apologies.
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Postby dunaddict » 07 Jan 2009 17:05

Sigh.... Now that Dune 7/8 is published, what keeps these typing toddlers from releasing that outline, hmm?
No wait, why didn't they include it as an Appendix in Sandworms or Hunters?

Probably because it bears no resemblance whatsoever to the 'story' these two bookmolesters imagined.

I've decided not to buy 'Paul of Dune', but if they published a 'Road to Dune 2' and include the dune 7 outline, I might be persuaded........ :lol:

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Postby Freakzilla » 07 Jan 2009 17:11

dunaddict wrote:I've decided not to buy 'Paul of Dune', but if they published a 'Road to Dune 2' and include the dune 7 outline, I might be persuaded........ :lol:


They should call it Road from Dune. :wink:
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Postby SandChigger » 07 Jan 2009 19:20

SandRider wrote:Right after Tolkien died, his son went in to the office at his home...

Compare that to what Brian/the Herberts did:

Boxed up Frank's things and stuffed them into a garage attic for over ten years.

They're not incredibly bright, this bunch, what? :roll:
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Postby SandRider » 07 Jan 2009 19:27

If, and I say "if", Brian was in the grips of Drugs and Alcohol and
still working out his feelings towards Frank at that time, I could
cut him a little slack for being stupid. IF that was the case.

Christopher Tolkien on the other hand was an highly educated man
with a sure sense of who his father was and what his father's reputation
was and what his legacy would be.

the whole thing's still sad, tho.
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Postby Mr. Teg » 08 Jan 2009 00:01

You gotta wonder if the whole thing about the relationship with his father is a marketing gimmick the same as Kevin's hiking or he simply is a very troubled person or both.

Seriously, his identity literally is the son with the bad relationship with his father.

Who presents themselves like that unless they were abused (After how many years did he spend patching things up with his dad and participating in joint projects, but still presents himself as the wounded son?).We all have had our ups and downs with our parents, but we hardly introduce ourselves as such.

If things were that bad, he could've split when he was 18. Maybe he tried, since he mentions hitchhiking in DoD, but returned when he needed money for college and proceded to get drunk which continued even after he got married.

All we are told is his own words that his mom said if forced to make a choice she will side with Frank.
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Postby SandChigger » 08 Jan 2009 02:59

Mr. Teg wrote:get[ting] drunk which continued even after he got married

And beyond!

Hell, he named on of his daughters after a wine! AAAAAA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA! :lol:
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Postby Bijaz » 08 Jan 2009 05:46

SandChigger wrote:
Mr. Teg wrote:get[ting] drunk which continued even after he got married

And beyond!

Hell, he named on of his daughters after a wine! AAAAAA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA! :lol:


Classy...like naming his kid Durex!
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Postby SandChigger » 08 Jan 2009 06:29

Evidently when she was little the other kids picked on her a lot, but since she's grown up Ripple has come to terms with it. :lol:
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Postby Freakzilla » 08 Jan 2009 09:29

It could have been worse, like, Night Train, Thunderbird or Mad Dog.
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Postby Robspierre » 08 Jan 2009 11:28

When my dad was a heli-attack forman in Washington, one of his crew named his daughter Chivas after the blended scotch :P

Rob

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Postby Freakzilla » 08 Jan 2009 11:46

Robspierre wrote:When my dad was a heli-attack forman in Washington, one of his crew named his daughter Chivas after the blended scotch :P

Rob


I knew a redneck dude, a fire alarm installer, who named his kids Hunter and Fisher. I hope they turn out to be vegitarians.

:lol:
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Postby Freakzilla » 08 Jan 2009 11:51

I should have named my kids Beer, Whiskey, and Marijuanna.

I guess the girl would have to be Marijuanna, huh?

:smoke:
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Postby Freakzilla » 08 Jan 2009 12:39

Baraka Bryan wrote:but she could go by Mari and avoid embarrassment.

name them cocaine... Acid...Meth

hard to avoid those :P what's acid gonna go by? Ass?


If it's a boy he could go by 'Cid.

The hillbillies on The Simpsons named their daughter Crystal Meth.
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Postby Hunchback Jack » 10 Jan 2009 19:40

TheDukester wrote:Christopher Tolkien (and, by extension, whatever literary trust that the Tolkien estate might have set up for various people) has chosen to treat J.R.R.'s work and legacy with respect and care. Christopher is also smart enough to realize that he's not much of a writer and that, even if he were, it would be professional suicide to attempt to "add to" the Lord of the Rings saga with completely new material. Instead, he pours his energy into actively editing and overseeing all aspects of his father's posthumous publications.


Not just editing and publishing, but actually analysing the texts, trying to determine the precise order that the drafts were written in, what changes in plot and characters occurred, and to understand what his father's reasons were for the changes.

Christopher Tolkien is the literary executor of his father's estate. His father tasked him to do this work, and he clearly takes that responsibility *very* seriously indeed.

From the admittedly short description of the new book, it sounds like there's more than just "notes" to go on; there may just be some draft manuscripts that need to be put in order. Should be very interesting.

What the HLP is doing in constrast is just appalling.

HBJ

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Postby shintemaster » 09 Feb 2009 20:52

Hunchback Jack wrote:Christopher Tolkien is the literary executor of his father's estate. His father tasked him to do this work, and he clearly takes that responsibility *very* seriously indeed.


Absolutely.

An interesting example will be the completion of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. As some may be aware he passed away just over a year ago leaving the series uncompleted. He had however left notes, dictated large parts of the story and had passed on the complete ending (which he had known since the beginning of the series). The project has been given to an author who has been a fan of the books since they first began, apparently they inspired him to become an author in the first place.

Now, I don't want to pre empt what may come out of this, the last book might be great or it might be simply good. What I do know is that there has been from the start of the project an obvious and abiding respect for the legacy & intentions of Rober Jordan. It's incredibly sad and frustrating to know that the Herbert's had this opportunity also and decided to instead sell the legacy of one of the greatest authors of the 20th century.

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Postby cmsahe » 10 Feb 2009 01:54

Robspierre wrote:When my dad was a heli-attack forman in Washington, one of his crew named his daughter Chivas after the blended scotch :P

Rob


Poor little girl, and even worse when she comes to Mexico for a vacation everyone will laugh at "Ms goats". (chivas means goats in spanish)
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