Most annoying inconsistancy

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Schu
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Most annoying inconsistancy

Postby Schu » 28 Jan 2009 18:06

I know there are a lot to choose from.

Mine is not actually one from the books directly. In the introduction to "deleted scenes and chapters from Dune" in The Road to Dune, we have a most reasonable outlook:
Many details are inconsistent with the published versions, and these scenes should be considered drafts, not "canon".


Perfectly sensible. When you find something in FH's notes, you probably shouldn't consider it canon anyway because it's a not, not published Dune material, but at least they recognise that if it contradicts published material, you call it a draft.

HOWEVER:

In the FAQ in the DN site, we have this little fart:

Q: In the preludes Jessica is almost forced on Duke Leto. Yet in the DUNE classic, we read that the Duke actually sent buyers to purchase her.

A: The Leto/Jessica meeting scene in HOUSE HARKONNEN was actually written by Frank Herbert himself and found in his notes. The events shown in HOUSE HARKONNEN are consistent with the original notes.


And of course, FH & KJA insist that their novels are canon. So they completely, irrefutably, inarguably contradicted themselves.

It's one thing to make a blunder (we can see FH did a few himself) but I think this mistake gets elevated to a new level because one is on the official website explaining "seeming" inconsistencies, and the other is in possibly the only genuinely good thing BH has done for the Duniverse: an official presentation of his notes. It goes beyond a mere error for me - they make a rule and they blatantly break it.


Of course, the most annoying thing that has been done as regards inconsistencies is the whole "FH's novels are a distorted history" thing, but that is not an inconsistency itsself, just an extremely insulting and flimsy retcon.

So, any of you have a favourite inconsistency?

Some other candidates:

Mass-amnesia about Teg having super-speed. I mean seriously guys, how'd you manage that one?

Dune-Piter and prelude-Piter being different gholas, despite him saying in Dune that he was the one that predicted a daughter for the Atreides, and having fear in his voice when the Baron was angry about it.

It being apparently common knowledge that the Tleilaxu were deeply religious, despite that only being discovered by Taraza and Odrade thousands of years later.

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A Thing of Eternity
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 28 Jan 2009 18:40

I think my personal favorite is at the end of Sadworms, when the seven 40 meter long sandworms fuse together to create the "biggest sandworm EVER"... I guess they forgot that the one Muad'dib rode in Dune was almost/at least 2500 meters long. :lol:

It's just so blarringly obvious, if you're going to state (in the narrative, not in a character's opinion) that something is the biggest, or fastest, or whatever in history - you might want to double-check that history. :roll:
Morons.

OR - I also love their complete disregard for basic SF protocol concerning thinking technology through (magic FTL drives that spew fire and subject their passengers to g-forces anyone? :lol: ) but that's not technically an inconsistancy.
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Postby TheDukester » 28 Jan 2009 18:57

I've always preferred the simple things, even when ranking inconsistencies. So I'll just stick with:

"Where was Paul born?"

It's hard to beat the classics. :)
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Postby Omphalos » 28 Jan 2009 19:08

Mine was when they said that anything that FH said or wrote had anything to do with the new books.

I'm sorry, isn't this the "lie" thread?

Sole Man

On My favorite inconsistency

Postby Sole Man » 28 Jan 2009 19:27

My favorite would have to be when they wrote a bunch of STARWARS books but put "Dune" in thier titles.

But hey, who cares about little details when there's a chance to be creative? Right?

RIGHT?! :evil:

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Postby dunaddict » 28 Jan 2009 20:14

These inconsistencies are true abominations, so I don't think the word 'favorite' is appropriate in this case.

The most awful inconsistency in my opinion;
I have to agree with Dukester's and Omph's choices, although they are now both part of the same evil lie:

Paul wasn't born on Caladan: Irulan made it all up!!!

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Postby Seraphan » 28 Jan 2009 20:27

When the ghola of Leto II says that the golden path was a mistake. It's not only an inconsistency, it's a fucking proof that the hacks understand jack shit about Dune.
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A Thing of Eternity
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 28 Jan 2009 20:32

Seraphan wrote:When the ghola of Leto II says that the golden path was a mistake. It's not only an inconsistency, it's a fucking proof that the hacks understand jack shit about Dune.


Yarr, terrible it is.
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Postby Lundse » 29 Jan 2009 02:41

Seraphan wrote:When the ghola of Leto II says that the golden path was a mistake. It's not only an inconsistency, it's a fucking proof that the hacks understand jack shit about Dune.


Agreed. (Wins, because of its obviousness and terseness, just in front of 'the Butlerian Jihad was a war of machine aggression' and 'heroes are nifty and will save the day').

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Postby Secher Nbiw » 29 Jan 2009 04:43

My vote goes to:

Conveniently Invisible Witches!

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Postby MICAH » 29 Jan 2009 07:04

ugg!!!!!!yep the invisible witches scenario WAS pretty annoying. it's like did they forget how to do all of that in the original books?!!!! The move to making them supernatural instead of them having an advanced understanding of both their minds & body chemistry is a GLARING inconsistency! :evil:

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Postby Freakzilla » 29 Jan 2009 10:41

I think the magic cenote where the first RM got her powers pissed me off the most.
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Postby Frybread » 29 Jan 2009 11:39

IMO, the biggest inconsistency is the telekinetic (i.e. magical) powers displayed by the Sorceresses of Rossack.

I guess these powers just disappeared or were forgotten about when the Sorceresses formed the Bene Gesserit, according to Keith and The Other Guy.

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Postby SandRider » 29 Jan 2009 12:59

I've only caught the reference to the "invisible witches" around here
a few times. Sure makes me glad I didn't read that and don't know
what you're talking about.
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Postby Crysknife » 29 Jan 2009 14:03

The depiction of the Butlerian Jihad. It's a travesty. That and the Baron and his disease.
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Postby dunaddict » 29 Jan 2009 14:21

MICAH wrote:ugg!!!!!!yep the invisible witches scenario WAS pretty annoying. it's like did they forget how to do all of that in the original books?!!!! The move to making them supernatural instead of them having an advanced understanding of both their minds & body chemistry is a GLARING inconsistency! :evil:


To be fair, the invisibility thing was not presented as something 'magical', but rather a form of mass hypnosis.

But the Sorceresses of Rossak definitely had Magical Powers. Big Mistake, no doubt about it.
Maybe there was a Jihad against Magical Powers within the Bene Gesserit. :roll:

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Postby SandRider » 29 Jan 2009 15:07

you mean :
Witches of DUNE

The indirect sequel to the prequel of
FRANK HERBERT's
DUNE

by KEITH J. HACKERSON
and
Brian Herbert
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Postby dunaddict » 29 Jan 2009 16:03

one more tweak

Witches of DUNE

The indirect sequel to the prequel of
FRANK HERBERT's DUNE

by KEITH J. HACKERSON
and
the son of FRANK HERBERT

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Postby SandChigger » 29 Jan 2009 16:11

dunaddict wrote:To be fair, the invisibility thing was not presented as something 'magical', but rather a form of mass hypnosis.

Oh, give me a break. "Resonance-hypnosis"? From a flickering glowglobe and a bunch of bints "concentrating"? :roll:

At the very least that last bit means telepathy of some sort, which is closer to something magical than any hypnosis method I've ever heard described.

I'll buy the telepathy of Sharing, with physical contact between the two women, and whatever it is Alia does to Mohiam at the end of Dune (Mohiam says it's not "T-P"), but that hide-and-sneak crap in House Harkonnen is too much.

Star Wars Jedi bullshit. Brought to the Duniverse by Keith J. Hackerson.
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Postby dunaddict » 29 Jan 2009 16:53

Personally, I think there's a difference between real errors and things that just feel wrong, but are not 100% inconsistent with Dune.

The whole "Jihad with cyborgs and brain-jars" thing, just feels wrong, bad-taste, cliche and unimaginative. But technically, it's not an inconsistency.
Others, like 'Paul born on Kaitain' and 'Paul leaving Caladan before Dune' are real inconsistencies.

The "vanishing act" is a difficult case.

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Postby DuneFishUK » 29 Jan 2009 17:17

dunaddict wrote:one more tweak

Witches of DUNE

The indirect sequel to the prequel of
FRANK HERBERT's DUNE

by KEITH J. HACKERSON
and
the son of FRANK HERBERT


The DUNE still isn't big enough.

Those witches were shit though.

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Postby EsperandoAGodot » 29 Jan 2009 18:10

dunaddict wrote:The whole "Jihad with cyborgs and brain-jars" thing, just feels wrong, bad-taste, cliche and unimaginative. But technically, it's not an inconsistency.

Actually, it is an inconsistency given the way the Jihad is described in the books - the reasons for it and the description of its struggle.
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On the wrong feel

Postby Sole Man » 29 Jan 2009 18:25

And let's not forget the gay robot Eramus!

ASIMOV FROWNS UPON YOU, YOUNG HACKERSON!

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Schu
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Postby Schu » 29 Jan 2009 18:41

dunaddict wrote:But the Sorceresses of Rossak definitely had Magical Powers. Big Mistake, no doubt about it.
Maybe there was a Jihad against Magical Powers within the Bene Gesserit. :roll:


It's hard to judge whether this one's a mistake. When FH wrote "and sorceresses whose powers were real" I always wondered whether that meant some kind of semi-mythology (maybe even something the missionaria did) or fact.

Erasmus is just oh so wrong.

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Postby dunaddict » 29 Jan 2009 19:52

It was a time of sorceresses whose powers were real.
....
Hesitantly, the leaders of religions whose followers had spilled the blood of billions began meeting to exchange views. It was a move encouraged by the Spacing Guild, which was beginning to build its monopoly over all interstellar travel, and by the Bene Gesserit who were banding the sorceresses.


I think the words sorceress and powers should not be taken literally. It just means women with impressive mental and physical abilities. Not magic.
And then the Bene Gesserit inherited these abilities.

I think the phrase whose powers were real means:
In the past there have been many women who claimed to be a sorceress, but had no real powers.
But now there were women with real powers. No witchcraft, but useful, real skills.