What should have been

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Dom
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Postby Dom » 01 Mar 2009 13:36

The tragedy of the Dune continuation novels is that a good editor could have brought in some of the top writers in science fiction and fantasy to tell new stories.

Given the number of years Dune is set across, there are plenty of stories that could have been set in the Duneiverse that have nothing to do with the 'big' events of Frank Herbert's novels and build on the background.

There are other peripheral cultures and characters who would have had interesting life stories that wouldn't contradict or shake up Frank's work, but would add new detail to the Duneiverse!

The HLP has simply churned out low quality schlocker after low quality schlocker to milk a few dollars. It's so stupid when there could have been Dune novels by such authors as David Brin, Orson Scott Card, Harlan Ellison, Greg Bear, Iain M Banks (although he claims not to be a fan), Michael Moorcock, Richard Matheson, Alastair Reynolds, Gregory Benford . . . even Ursula LeGuin or Neil Gaiman!

New Dune novels could have been the biggest, coolest thing to hit science fiction in years. Instead we get the work of a guy who squeezes Dune books in between trashy seven-book epics and Star Wars novels.

Worse than just the poor writing of all is that the books are so childish. It seems like an authorial meeting consists of: 'Snicker snicker! Let's put a rape scene in here! Hey! Let's include a vivisection here! Hey! How about a 40-page space battle? Hey maybe she could get her tits out here and dildo herself with the handle of a crysknife! Snicker snicker!'

It's not just that I'm disappointed with the HLP books: I'm angry that they can get away with writing such trash! It is significant, though, that most serious scifi publications ignore them and, even when they review them, it's negatively. The HLP books are little more than a peculiar cottage industry to provide HLP with a modest income. I guess that if they'd got proper SF/Fantasy authors in, they'd have had to pay out a lot more in advance and give over a lot more of the profits!

Funniest of all are the planted reviews on Amazon, written by people who are only capable of writing in marketing speak!

It's ironic that Dune mirrors the trials and tribulations of the 2003 Battlestar Galactica series. In that case, the new show is superior yet has a bunch of web terrorists (who preferred the trashy original 70s show) trying to trash it!

At least the cause on this site is noble!

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dunaddict
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Postby dunaddict » 04 Mar 2009 06:25

Dom wrote:Worse than just the poor writing of all is that the books are so childish. It seems like an authorial meeting consists of: 'Snicker snicker! Let's put a rape scene in here! Hey! Let's include a vivisection here! Hey! How about a 40-page space battle? Hey maybe she could get her tits out here and dildo herself with the handle of a crysknife! Snicker snicker!'


Hey, if it sells, why bother to even try writing something meaningful?

Dom wrote:It is significant, though, that most serious scifi publications ignore them and, even when they review them, it's negatively.


Do you have a link to a professional review? I really want to see what they say about our favorite duo? :)

Dom wrote:It's ironic that Dune mirrors the trials and tribulations of the 2003 Battlestar Galactica series. In that case, the new show is superior yet has a bunch of web terrorists (who preferred the trashy original 70s show) trying to trash it!


BSG doesn't pretend to be consistent with the original series.
BSG doesn't try to decanonize the original series.
BSG actually succeeds in offering better stories than the original series.

No, BSG 2003 trashers should read Dune and then the Dune-lite novels before they trash BSG again.

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SandChigger
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Postby SandChigger » 04 Mar 2009 08:03

Why do I have the feeling that people who would prefer the old BSG would probably like McDune? (You mean there really are people—besides that has-been Dirk Benedict—who really prefer the old series? Incomprehensible. :roll: )

The common factors: inability to perceive real quality; slavery to a fixed idea.

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Mandy
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Postby Mandy » 04 Mar 2009 15:16

Oh yeah, there were quite a few new BSG haters. They call BSG GINO (Galactica in name only).
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DuneFishUK
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Postby DuneFishUK » 04 Mar 2009 15:45

Both the BSGs succeed on their own merits. Original was admittedly ropey in places, but deciding which one you prefer is largely a matter of taste/what want out of a tv series - that "GINO" isn't an insult by any stretch.

I don't think the McDune analogy works with BSG.

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Freakzilla
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Postby Freakzilla » 04 Mar 2009 15:52

DuneFishUK wrote:Both the BSGs succeed on their own merits. Original was admittedly ropey in places, but deciding which one you prefer is largely a matter of taste/what want out of a tv series - that "GINO" isn't an insult by any stretch.

I don't think the McDune analogy works with BSG.


Of course not, BSG is admittedly re-imagined. They don't claim to be sticking to the the original. Just imagine if the BSG people told the fans THEY were wrong, the re-imagined BSG is how the creater really wanted it to be.

OR...

The original series was from the POV of one of the characters and is distorted. This is the way it REALLY happened.

:puke:
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DuneFishUK
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Postby DuneFishUK » 04 Mar 2009 16:08

Freakzilla wrote:This is the way it REALLY happened.

:puke:


Would be interesting to see how the retconned the whole Starbuck thing... :P

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Freakzilla
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Postby Freakzilla » 04 Mar 2009 16:09

DuneFishUK wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:This is the way it REALLY happened.

:puke:


Would be interesting to see how the retconned the whole Starbuck thing... :P


It was all Starbuck's dream...
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Omphalos
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Postby Omphalos » 04 Mar 2009 16:22

SandChigger wrote:Why do I have the feeling that people who would prefer the old BSG would probably like McDune? (You mean there really are people—besides that has-been Dirk Benedict—who really prefer the old series? Incomprehensible. :roll: )

The common factors: inability to perceive real quality; slavery to a fixed idea.


I suppose every moron needs a cause. :roll:

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Samarkan
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Postby Samarkan » 06 Mar 2009 06:44

I have another theory though: They realized the quality of their writing was not as good as Frank's so they thought that the more books they wrote, the more likely people will remember them in the future as science fiction authors.


My cock will be remembered as a better science fiction author!

The way to truly be remembered is to innovate -- to create something new and original -- not to try to make a name for oneself by desperately latching onto someone else's coattails. The KJA method of writing depends less on artfully crafting a clear and concise narrative and instead entails a rapid-fire succession of ill-conceived and often-silly plots and subplots -- some of which are never finally resolved. If he's working in someone else's literary universe (Duniverse, SW) then his characters will always behave unlike their established selves. Also, the big finale usually hinges on Deus ex machina to settle the primary crisis that his characters seem to find themselves in. It's the cornerstone of lazy, sloppy writing and an insult to an average person's intelligence.

Brian Herbert has always and will always live in his father's shadow. It's sort of like if Leonardo da Vinci had fathered a son who was also a painter -- except his son was a retarded finger-painter... who really, really sucked at fingerpainting... in fact, he never did his own fingerpainting but hired a sketchy guy in a trenchcoat (nothing else) named Kevin do all the "work" and then took half-credit. Undoubtedly, he's always been compared to his father and he's always come up short because it's such a stark contrast in ability and talent.

So... neither of those two whores are good writers. Sadly, I believe that BH and KJA really do think they are as good as Frank was....or even BETTERER!!! They were encouraged by legions of simple-minded dumbfucks who read the shitty prequel garbage and declared that HAY TIHS NU DOONE HAS RELLY VARY GOOD!!1 And as long as sales figures are in the green, they will continue to churn out a steady stream of their signature DOONE fanfic diarrhea. I'm waiting for the 9,999th installment entitled Chair Of Dune. It will be dark... very dark.
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They don't care about literary recognition or Frank Herbert's legacy. They just want more money. Were six prequels necessary? Even though they're shameless, greedy hacks, if the two twits had honestly wanted to "honor FH's memory" they would have just written DOONE 7 and ended their foray into the Dune series with it, instead of peddling all of those other DOONE gems before they got around to writing DOONE 7 and later announcing EVEN MORE prequels. It would have been poorly-written and anyone with a reading level above Toddler would have hated DOONE 7 but at least they wouldn't have made lying, money-grubbing whores out of themselves. Afterall, they did have the imaginary, er i mean "secret", notes left behind by Frank Herbert after his death. Did Frank's ghost appear to BH and tell him where the mysterious notes were at, or did the two twits just find a treasure map hidden in Frank's coat pocket after they dug up his body in order to steal his gold fillings? Ahhh yes... cyborgs, an effeminate robot, telepathy, Futurama-style head jars, a magical Time Lady, and Mighty Morphing Sandworm Kid... all hallmarks of Frank Herbert's Dune series.

What a crock of shit! And that sums up the BH and KJA contradiction/contribution to Dune.
Last edited by Samarkan on 06 Mar 2009 07:59, edited 1 time in total.

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inhuien
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Postby inhuien » 06 Mar 2009 07:55

^^^ What he said. Hiho Samarkan :)

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GamePlayer
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Postby GamePlayer » 06 Mar 2009 11:47

Samarkan wrote:Brian Herbert has always and will always live in his father's shadow. It's sort of like if Leonardo da Vinci had fathered a son who was also a painter -- except his son was a retarded finger-painter... who really, really sucked at fingerpainting... in fact, he never did his own fingerpainting but hired a sketchy guy in a trenchcoat (nothing else) named Kevin do all the "work" and then took half-credit. Undoubtedly, he's always been compared to his father and he's always come up short because it's such a stark contrast in ability and talent.


I endorse this evaluation :lol:
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Samarkan
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Postby Samarkan » 06 Mar 2009 13:05

Thank you both for the warm welcome! :D

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A Thing of Eternity
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 06 Mar 2009 13:37

Welcome indeed. Haven't seen an entrance like that in a while. :lol:
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Ghost
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Postby Ghost » 06 Mar 2009 15:16

Samarkan wrote:I'm waiting for the 9,999th installment entitled Chair Of Dune. It will be dark... very dark.
Image



Chairdogs of Dune.

True stories about Taraza's chairdog, Bellonda's Chairdog and Odrade's chairdog*



*
yes, we know that Odrade didnt liked the chairdogs...thst is the funny thing, it will be retconned.

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Tleszer
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Postby Tleszer » 06 Mar 2009 15:23

Ghost wrote:Chairdogs of Dune.

True stories about Taraza's chairdog, Bellonda's Chairdog and Odrade's chairdog


I'm pretty sure you don't want to know what they did with/to those chairdogs. :D

Oh, and welcome Samarkan!
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Samarkan
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Postby Samarkan » 06 Mar 2009 16:15

Tleszer wrote:
Ghost wrote:Chairdogs of Dune.

True stories about Taraza's chairdog, Bellonda's Chairdog and Odrade's chairdog


I'm pretty sure you don't want to know what they did with/to those chairdogs. :D

Oh, and welcome Samarkan!


Leto II's chairdog was cloned from fingernail scrapings of his original chairdog which was destroyed along with Rakis. Some of Leto II's hiney DNA was inadvertantly mixed in with the samples. This means that the chairdog ghola has the hidden ability to ZOMG MORPH INTO A SANDWORM AT WILL!!11

ps. a pleasure to meet you too!

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SwordMaster
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Postby SwordMaster » 06 Mar 2009 16:17

MECH CHAIR DOGS WITH TIME TRAVEL ABILITY!
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Samarkan
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Postby Samarkan » 06 Mar 2009 16:37

SwordMaster wrote:MECH CHAIR DOGS WITH TIME TRAVEL ABILITY!


here's the prototype

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SandChigger
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Postby SandChigger » 06 Mar 2009 16:43

A Thing of Eternity wrote:Welcome indeed. Haven't seen an entrance like that in a while. :lol:

Definitely.

WELCOME! :lol: