Sandworms Quotes Showing Poor Writing - ATTN: REDBUGPEST

[redbugpest]

If you bother yourself for a few moments to search the first dune novels, you'll find a very detailed description of how the worm and the spice cycle work, rather than searching an article in the DE (if i'm not mistaken) wich happens to have some author admited inconsistencies. Please find a quote from the novels instead.

What I put up was copypasta from the DUNE pdf's.

[SandChigger]

Yeah, Seraphan, he's definitely quoting from Dune. But interpreting in the farty fog light of KJA in "Waterworms".

He'll continue to perform for us like KJA himself, waving his hands and intoning "Genetics!" like it's some magic word, since for him it's just fiction and in fiction anything goes, so why not turn hydrophobic sandworms into hydrophilic seaworms? Who, although their entire internal chemistry and metabolic pathways have been altered, can still produce a suped-up version of a complex chemical compound (ULTRA-SPICE!) that earlier sandworms never produced in the first place.

The idiocy is astounding.

[SandChigger]

Copypasta? That some new kind of KJASF Mafia/ganstah slango?

Dumbfuck can't even TYPE.

[redbugpest]

Don't quote the Terminology and "Ecology Appendix" of Dune at me, you prequelite hacksucker. Your "argument" is shit and you know it.

"Ooh, Lord Kevin, tell me EVERYTHING about YOUR 'waterworm'!" Mmm...mmm...mmm!

I couldn't find the reference to trout making trout...

Odd, since it's not in that book (or two or three?) you claim you've loaned out. (Or did you finally get it back? Not that it's relevant.)

FAIL.

I didn't feel the need to search all six, since it seemed to be spelled out so clearly. in the 1st three or so. Even Jessica recognizes the importance of the worm in one of the quotes.

I'm sorry that I cannot conclusively prove my point by reanimating Frank Herbert - Yet....

Do you have something from the origional Dune that contradicts what I found? Pretend I am from Missouri, and show me.

[redbugpest]

Yeah, Seraphan, he's definitely quoting from Dune. But interpreting in the farty fog light of KJA in "Waterworms".

He'll continue to perform for us like KJA himself, waving his hands and intoning "Genetics!" like it's some magic word, since for him it's just fiction and in fiction anything goes, so why not turn hydrophobic sandworms into hydrophilic seaworms? Who, although their entire internal chemistry and metabolic pathways have been altered, can still produce a suped-up version of a complex chemical compound (ULTRA-SPICE!) that earlier sandworms never produced in the first place.

The idiocy is astounding.

There is nothing farty or foggy about it. It is a fair and reasonable interpretation of the facts at at hand.

Am I wrong about the life cycle of the worm? No. Am I wrong about the ability to genetically manipulate one part of a life forms vector to produce a change in that life form? No.
Am I wrong to associate the the worm with the spice? No.

I think you are more irked that I am write than anything.

[redbugpest]

Copypasta? That some new kind of KJASF Mafia/ganstah slango?

Dumbfuck can't even TYPE.

resorting to being a meanie because I am right isn't nice.

[SandChigger]

Yes, yes, you're always "write", aren't you?

There is no point in discussing anything with YOU because you're obviously not prepared for it.

The sandtrout are said to propagate in a later book. Look for it yourself. Of course KJA will say that's another post-Leto-hybridization change, like the worms themselves producing spice.

This is a waste of time, as it has been since you first showed up here. Go suck your hack, dumbfuck.

[redbugpest]

Yes, yes, you're always "write", aren't you?

There is no point in discussing anything with YOU because you're obviously not prepared for it.

The sandtrout are said to propagate in a later book. Look for it yourself. Of course KJA will say that's another post-Leto-hybridization change, like the worms themselves producing spice.

This is a waste of time, as it has been since you first showed up here. Go suck your hack, dumbfuck.

In 32 days of being away and two days of being back, I have come to the conclusion that you, in particular, do not like to have your belief structure challenged, nor do you like to be wrong. I have met people like you, who must be right at all costs. It is typical for someone such as yourself, when your belief structure is challenged, to lash out, and to latch onto any little mistake, however remotely related (such as my not catching the write vs. right) as your life raft so you can dismiss me as being unequal to you. By doing this you save face to yourself.

Unfortunately, it does not change the fact that you have not rebutted my argument with any other facts, other than it is in a later book.

[lotek]

Copypasta? That some new kind of KJASF Mafia/ganstah slango?

Grammatical note

Copypasta is, of course, a noun. The verb for the posting of copypasta is cuntpaste.

[redbugpest]

From Chapterhouse.

Idaho-ghola! He refused to think of himself in that abstraction. "Why is Leto
suddenly so important to you?" No escaping the admission in that response.
"Our worm has become sandtrout."
"Are they growing and propagating?"
"Apparently."
"Unless you contain them or eliminate them, Chapterhouse may become another
Dune. "

Is this your quote?

This is mentioned ONE time in 6 books, while the Worm / Trout / Spice dependancy is mentioned many, many times, and does not realy refer to breeding, but rather their spreading.
(To cause to extend to a broader area or larger number; spread)

[redbugpest]

From Chapterhouse.

Idaho-ghola! He refused to think of himself in that abstraction. "Why is Leto
suddenly so important to you?" No escaping the admission in that response.
"Our worm has become sandtrout."
"Are they growing and propagating?"
"Apparently."
"Unless you contain them or eliminate them, Chapterhouse may become another
Dune. "

Is this your quote?

This is mentioned ONE time in 6 books, while the Worm / Trout / Spice dependancy is mentioned many, many times, and does not realy refer to breeding, but rather their spreading.
(To cause to extend to a broader area or larger number; spread)

Try this"

Lastly, she thought about the worm in the no-ship's hold -- a worm nearing the
moment of its metamorphosis. A small earth-dammed basin filled with melange
awaited that worm. When the moment came, it would be lured out by Sheeana into
the bath of melange and water. The resulting sandtrout could then begin their
long transformation.

[redbugpest]

From Chapterhouse.

Idaho-ghola! He refused to think of himself in that abstraction. "Why is Leto
suddenly so important to you?" No escaping the admission in that response.
"Our worm has become sandtrout."
"Are they growing and propagating?"
"Apparently."
"Unless you contain them or eliminate them, Chapterhouse may become another
Dune. "

Is this your quote?

This is mentioned ONE time in 6 books, while the Worm / Trout / Spice dependancy is mentioned many, many times, and does not realy refer to breeding, but rather their spreading.
(To cause to extend to a broader area or larger number; spread)

Try this"

Lastly, she thought about the worm in the no-ship's hold -- a worm nearing the
moment of its metamorphosis. A small earth-dammed basin filled with melange
awaited that worm. When the moment came, it would be lured out by Sheeana into
the bath of melange and water. The resulting sandtrout could then begin their
long transformation.

And this...

They had brought some spice-essence. They knew the old stories about sandworms
and spice-essence, of course. Luyseyal carried it. She thought of it as a
specific poison for sandworms. That was obvious. Bene Gesserit records and the
Oral History agreed on this. The essence shattered the worm, precipitating its
dissolution and resulting (eventually) in sandtrout which would produce more
sandworms etcetera, etcetera, etcetera . . .

[lotek]

From Chapterhouse.

Idaho-ghola! He refused to think of himself in that abstraction. "Why is Leto
suddenly so important to you?" No escaping the admission in that response.
"Our worm has become sandtrout."
"Are they growing and propagating?"
"Apparently."
"Unless you contain them or eliminate them, Chapterhouse may become another
Dune. "

Is this your quote?

This is mentioned ONE time in 6 books, while the Worm / Trout / Spice dependancy is mentioned many, many times, and does not realy refer to breeding, but rather their spreading.
(To cause to extend to a broader area or larger number; spread)

That does not prove anything, sandtrouts propagate or spread, whatever... the thing is the idea of megaspice from waterworms is ridiculous, at least in the real Duniverse. The reasons for that have been exposed before, and again we see the KJA trick of the magic wand of saying it happened because i wrote it, therefore it's great...
I read Dune and that fact was engraved forever in my mind: worms, spice and sandtrouts=Arrakis, Arrakis=desert=no water.

From Thing's first post:

Waff had a much more immediate solution. If he could develop a breed of sandworm that
tolerated water, even thrived around it, the creatures could be transplanted onto innumerable
worlds where they could grow swiftly and multiply! The worms would not need to reconstruct a
whole planetary environment before they began to produce mélange. That alone would save
decades that Waff simply did not have. His modified worms would provide all the spice the Guild
Navigators could ever desire - and serve Waff's purposes as well.



Problem: the worms don’t create the spice. It is formed when a cluster of sandtrout has reached a critical point, fermented if you will, creating the pre-spice mass; which then produces vast quantities of carbon dioxide; pressure builds up and creates an explosion known as a spice blow. When the remains of the pre-spice mass have dried out this is what is known as the spice mélange. No worms necessary, the only purpose of the worm vector appears to be to protect the territory (from what who knows?) and eventually die producing more sandtrout. This demonstrates poor Dune knowledge in general.

I don't understand how you can say that people here would go mad when their beliefs are challenged. It is absolutely off the mark to say that when you don't seem to have the same commitment to defending your point of view(Sand Chigger might "lash out" but maybe there is a slight and tiny possiblity that it might be out of despair when not being able to discuss properly a point without losing it to sidetrack issues)?

I'd be curious to see you debate on that single point raised in my post without resorting to the same technique...

[SandChigger]

In 32 days of being away and two days of being back, I have come to the conclusion that you, in particular, do not like to have your belief structure challenged, nor do you like to be wrong. I have met people like you, who must be right at all costs. It is typical for someone such as yourself, when your belief structure is challenged, to lash out, and to latch onto any little mistake, however remotely related (such as my not catching the write vs. right) as your life raft so you can dismiss me as being unequal to you. By doing this you save face to yourself.

Unfortunately, it does not change the fact that you have not rebutted my argument with any other facts, other than it is in a later book.

Aw, is Pestie getting perturbed? You could always just go away again? (Was it really 32 days? I guess YOU were counting? )

Darlin, when you post something WORTH rebutting, I'll be on it. Otherwise you're just farting out your facial anus like Kevin. (Come on, admit it, he's "feedin" you, right? You're not bright enough to come up with even this shit on your own. )

Here's the way it is: the whole "waterworm" arc was just more of KJA's specialty, FLASH & WOW. ("Hey, Brian, wouldn't it be kewl if we made ... sandworms that SWIM IN WATER?!!!1") The only in-story result was this purported "Ultra-spice", which was of no value except in putting Baddy Paolo into an Ultra-Trance. Making the seaworms (and sandworms) produce spice internally was the only way to get around the fact that a spice cycle could not exist in an aquatic environment: the chemistry JUST WOULD NOT WORK.

So this question of whether sandtrout come from sandworms (yes, they do under special conditions ) is just more obfuscation. The main point is that SANDWORMS DO NOT PRODUCE THE SPICE, and that is the MAJOR INCONSISTENCY that KJA had to introduce for this whole bullshit book to work.

Now you go ahead and flail and wail about genetics and changing the DNA of vectors of given lifeforms and blah blah blah all you want. The real issue is clear and on that issue both you and your hero FAIL.

Now kindly FUCK OFF.

[redbugpest]

In 32 days of being away and two days of being back, I have come to the conclusion that you, in particular, do not like to have your belief structure challenged, nor do you like to be wrong. I have met people like you, who must be right at all costs. It is typical for someone such as yourself, when your belief structure is challenged, to lash out, and to latch onto any little mistake, however remotely related (such as my not catching the write vs. right) as your life raft so you can dismiss me as being unequal to you. By doing this you save face to yourself.

Unfortunately, it does not change the fact that you have not rebutted my argument with any other facts, other than it is in a later book.

Aw, is Pestie getting perturbed? You could always just go away again? (Was it really 32 days? I guess YOU were counting? )

Darlin, when you post something WORTH rebutting, I'll be on it. Otherwise you're just farting out your facial anus like Kevin. (Come on, admit it, he's "feedin" you, right? You're not bright enough to come up with even this shit on your own. )

Here's the way it is: the whole "waterworm" arc was just more of KJA's specialty, FLASH & WOW. ("Hey, Brian, wouldn't it be kewl if we made ... sandworms that SWIM IN WATER?!!!1") The only in-story result was this purported "Ultra-spice", which was of no value except in putting Baddy Paolo into an Ultra-Trance. Making the seaworms (and sandworms) produce spice internally was the only way to get around the fact that a spice cycle could not exist in an aquatic environment: the chemistry JUST WOULD NOT WORK.

So this question of whether sandtrout come from sandworms (yes, they do under special conditions ) is just more obfuscation. The main point is that SANDWORMS DO NOT PRODUCE THE SPICE, and that is the MAJOR INCONSISTENCY that KJA had to introduce for this whole bullshit book to work.

Now you go ahead and flail and wail about genetics and changing the DNA of vectors of given lifeforms and blah blah blah all you want. The real issue is clear and on that issue both you and your hero FAIL.

Now kindly FUCK OFF.

I'm sorry, but trout to worm is NOT a special circumstance. There are too many references to it to judge it otherwise. I see no evidence whatsoever to validate the clame that Sandtrout beget Sandtrout.

No, the worm VECTOR of the life form is not the spice creating VECTOR. They are, in essence the same organism in different developmental stages. If you can understand that, and do understand that, and I make a general statement about modifying the worm so that it no longer requires a dry climate for the cycle to function, so that spice can be produced without a desert, you should be able to comprehend that it is still the trout VECTOR that would be making the spice,even though I man state that I am working on the genetics of the worm.

[SandChigger]

I'm sorry, but trout to worm is NOT a special circumstance. There are too many references to it to judge it otherwise. I see no evidence whatsoever to validate the clame that Sandtrout beget Sandtrout.

There you go, there's the Pestie I know and loathe! WHO THE FUCK said anything about "trout to worm", you fucking obfuscating TROLL? I wrote "sandtrout come from sandworms".

FAIL.

No, the worm VECTOR of the life form is not the spice creating VECTOR.

REALLY?! How about you run back to KJA Lande and TELL HIM THAT:

Using carefully mapped models from sandtrout chromosomes, Waff knew that these creatures had the same internal metabolic reactions as a traditional sandworm.

Therefore, they should still produce spice, but Waff didn't know what kind of spice, or how it would be harvested. He stepped back, interlocking his grayish fingers.

As if connected directly with Monarch's nervous system, Sheeana could see through the eyeless worm to its companions beneath the sand. Working together, the seven sandworms were forming small veins of spice in the cargo hold.

They are, in essence the same organism in different developmental stages. If you can understand that, and do understand that, and I make a general statement about modifying the worm so that it no longer requires a dry climate for the cycle to function, so that spice can be produced without a desert, you should be able to comprehend that it is still the trout VECTOR that would be making the spice,even though I man state that I am working on the genetics of the worm.

Yeah, right. You stupid ass sycophant, you don't even have a fucking grasp on what the fuck your own hack hero has written, let alone understand Frank Herbert's books.

FAIL and fuck off.

[SandChigger]

Nah, I decided I'm not finished yet:

LISTEN, you Dune-ignorant fuck, it ISN'T EVEN the sandtrout that produce the spice. All they DO is encapsulate a big mass of water and then do their equivalent of shitting and pissing INTO IT. It's that mass of sandtrout urine and excrement (or metabolic waste, if you prefer ... and I KNOW you prefer such crap as your reading material) that FERMENTS and produces the PRE-SPICE MASS, with carbon dioxide as a by-product. That carbon dioxide bubble eventually becomes so large that it burp-percolates up through the sand, resulting in a spice blow. Most of the sandtrout are killed in the upheaval, and it's the pre-spice mass, exposed to the drying air and heat/light of Canopus that actually becomes the spice that the Fremen and others harvest.

Because the spice is not actually a physiological product produced WITHIN the body of any of the vectors of the worm, it DOES need a desert climate to exist. THAT is why Seaworms of Dune is such a MASSIVE FAILURE.

NOW you can fuck off.

[redbugpest]

Nah, I decided I'm not finished yet:

LISTEN, you Dune-ignorant fuck, it ISN'T EVEN the sandtrout that produce the spice. All they DO is encapsulate a big mass of water and then do their equivalent of shitting and pissing INTO IT. It's that mass of sandtrout urine and excrement (or metabolic waste, if you prefer ... and I KNOW you prefer such crap as your reading material) that FERMENTS and produces the PRE-SPICE MASS, with carbon dioxide as a by-product. That carbon dioxide bubble eventually becomes so large that it burp-percolates up through the sand, resulting in a spice blow. Most of the sandtrout are killed in the upheaval, and it's the pre-spice mass, exposed to the drying air and heat/light of Canopus that actually becomes the spice that the Fremen and others harvest.

Because the spice is not actually a physiological product produced WITHIN the body of any of the vectors of the worm, it DOES need a desert climate to exist. THAT is why Seaworms of Dune is such a MASSIVE FAILURE.

NOW you can fuck off.

I never said that the spice was an internal production - You fail.
Is it a combination of the water and an excretion for the trout - yes
Carbon dioxide causes the blow - yes

Absolutely needs a dry planet - no. that is a cause of the trout utilizing the water.

As for your previous post - EPIC FAIL.

I have never said that I subscribe to worms making spice, other than in the context of the worm being a VECTOR of the organism.

Of course, there was something I saw in GEoD or HoD about Leto II's trout offspring being somehow different.....

EDIT: Actually, the spice process would be a quasi internal process, as the sandtrout are encapsulating it. I would liken it to a Cactus holding water. The process of the chemical exchange would occur inside.

[lotek]

a cactus holding water...
in water?

preposterous at best...

[redbugpest]

a cactus holding water...
in water?

preposterous at best...

So just how do they encyst the water? You tell me.

[Ampoliros]

they form together to encapsulate it, like a bubble of water with a sandtrout skin.

And I do believe that Frank Herbert hinted that the Spice was Shai-Hulud's semen.

[SandChigger]

And I do believe that Frank Herbert hinted that the Spice was Shai-Hulud's semen.

NOT in one of the books he didn't.

And I believe it was McNelly that actually says "semen" in the interview.

[Freakzilla]

And I do believe that Frank Herbert hinted that the Spice was Shai-Hulud's semen.

NOT in one of the books he didn't.

And I believe it was McNelly that actually says "semen" in the interview.

It's in the missing page of the McNelly interview.

[Robspierre]

they form together to encapsulate it, like a bubble of water with a sandtrout skin.

And I do believe that Frank Herbert hinted that the Spice was Shai-Hulud's semen.

That is what McNelley said on the bonus features of the extended Dune mini-series extra's.

Rob

[SandChigger]

I never said that the spice was an internal production - You fail.
Is it a combination of the water and an excretion for the trout - yes
Carbon dioxide causes the blow - yes

Absolutely needs a dry planet - no. that is a cause of the trout utilizing the water.

As for your previous post - EPIC FAIL.

I have never said that I subscribe to worms making spice, other than in the context of the worm being a VECTOR of the organism.

Of course, there was something I saw in GEoD or HoD about Leto II's trout offspring being somehow different.....

EDIT: Actually, the spice process would be a quasi internal process, as the sandtrout are encapsulating it. I would liken it to a Cactus holding water. The process of the chemical exchange would occur inside.

Right ... here we see another lovely example of a McDune fan honestly trying to discuss the books.

Go fuck yourself, Pest. You're a waste of time.