The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

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The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby SandChigger » 02 Jul 2009 19:24

With a silent tread, Jessica glided down the castle's corridors to the doorway of Gurney's private clambers. She paused, wanting someone to talk to. She and Gurney could relate their common loss and consider what to do now, how to help Alia hold the already strained empire together until Paul's children came of age. What sort of future could they create for those infant twins? The winds of Dune—the politics and desert storms—could strip a person's flesh down to the bone.

There's a lot of wind (hot air, moving) in this one, to be sure.

Jessica and Gurney haven't played "pole the sands" yet, but Alia and Duncan are getting pretty touchy feely by the time Jessica gets to Arrakis.

And never fear, the Muadru get their first mention in the eighth "chapter".

Whatever restraint ... or blockage ... KJA has known in the past, he has pulled out all the buttplugs in this one and the shit is flowing fast and furious; there's hardly a paragraph that doesn't contain some egregious reference to McDune shit, both from past books and future sections of this one. (Like when Alia, thinking back on Paul's life, remembers his youthful indiscretion of running away with the Jongleurs. Or Duncan musing in an epigraph about how he protected Paul on Caladan and Grumman.) I don't know whether this is just hubris (Who but a few disgruntled Talifans will dare contradict me now, ha ha?!) or desperation (trying any way he can to establish some validity for his own shitty vision).

Stay tuned. The compressor's gone out and the temperature in the meat freezer is starting to rise.... :twisted:
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby Ampoliros » 02 Jul 2009 19:58

hmm can you pm me with more details? No ARC's exist where I am (yet) but i've been on the lookout.

So far it sounds like KJA is attempting to use WaD to cement his claim to the Dune universe and show that he's contributed more to it than anyone, even Frank, and that makes it his now. After Terra Incognito is finished I imagine he'll lay claim to Mediterranean History as well.
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby Redstar » 02 Jul 2009 20:43

I remember grabbing a "How to write" book when I was 14 or so and near the end it suggested finding the right title through a stunning quote used in the book that would tie the novel together with itself. Fine and dandy, but KJA apparently likes coming up with the title first and dropping it throughout the book to be "clever". A writer am I, I guess.

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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby SandChigger » 02 Jul 2009 20:57

Ampoliros wrote:No ARC's exist where I am (yet) but i've been on the lookout.

Yeah, I've been looking for one, too. :(


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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby Rakis » 02 Jul 2009 22:21

So what about the Muadru, Chig?

How did they fart their way into this windy novel?
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby SandChigger » 02 Jul 2009 22:50

Thus far(t) only as a decorative motif, like early on in PoD (remember, Irulan with her BG training recognizes that Korba has decorated his robes with Muadru characters?):

Soon after she arrives on Arrakis, Jessica goes to visit Irulan in her "death cell" (and actually commands the guards to release her, against Alia's orders):

She marched down to the prison levels without an escort, having memorized the route from charts. Standing before the metal door of Irulan's sealed cell, she scrutinized strange markings on the wall, mystical symbols modeled after the writings of the vanished Muadru race. Paul's pristhood had apparently adopted the ancient runes for their own purposes.

Six books and Frank Herbert never mentioned the "Muadru" once. And KJA (and the other guy?) evidently wrote four McDune books before the idea light bulb flashed on: they are only mentioned in MC (10 times), BoC (5), HuoD (1), SoD (1), PoD (5) & WoD (1 time, so far). There's nothing in the first four McDune books, unless they've slipped them in into later revisions.

THIS IS PURE KEVIN J. ANDERSON BULLSHIT. ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES. HOLD YOUR NOSE. :twisted:
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby Rakis » 02 Jul 2009 23:03

SandChigger wrote:Thus far(t) only as a decorative motif, like early on in PoD (remember, Irulan with her BG training recognizes that Korba has decorated his robes with Muadru characters?):

Soon after she arrives on Arrakis, Jessica goes to visit Irulan in her "death cell" (and actually commands the guards to release her, against Alia's orders):

She marched down to the prison levels without an escort, having memorized the route from charts. Standing before the metal door of Irulan's sealed cell, she scrutinized strange markings on the wall, mystical symbols modeled after the writings of the vanished Muadru race. Paul's pristhood had apparently adopted the ancient runes for their own purposes.

Six books and Frank Herbert never mentioned the "Muadru" once. And KJA (and the other guy?) evidently wrote four McDune books before the idea light bulb flashed on: they are only mentioned in MC (10 times), BoC (5), HuoD (1), SoD (1), PoD (5) & WoD (1 time, so far). There's nothing in the first four McDune books, unless they've slipped them in into later revisions.

THIS IS PURE KEVIN J. ANDERSON BULLSHIT. ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES. HOLD YOUR NOSE. :twisted:


I hear ya...I think KJA maybe going for a new series with this after the Zeroes series...You know, seven books to spread the shit all over again, using the Dune name on the cover, but with zero content...smells familiar?
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby Schu » 02 Jul 2009 23:11

I can tell you, I can't wait to read Edric of Dune.

Swam a little. Popped some spice pills. The guys fished out my poop while I was high on melange. All in all, a good day.

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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby TheDukester » 02 Jul 2009 23:14

Followed not long after by Assistant Spice Harvester Maintenance Guy of Dune.
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby SandChigger » 02 Jul 2009 23:26

:shock: ... :laughing:

Schu, bless you! You reminded me:

The captive Steersman Edric had wielded the power of the Spacing Guild and carried the political weight of an appointed ambassador, but his safety depended on civilized restraints that meant nothing to Stilgar. Smashing the tank had been simple. When the spice gas drained away and the Steersman flopped about like a spindly aquatic creature cast up on a hostile shore, Stilgar had gripped the mutant's rubbery flesh and snapped the cartilaginous neck. He had taken no great pleasure in it.

Teacher writes: "Kevin is an active boy and is generally attentive in class, but he seems to lack the capacity to learn from his past mistakes." :roll:

This is specifically one of the things Thing mentioned in one of his threads: it's suspensors that support the Navs in their tanks, not the gas. (Can we get a date from DN just to show this was brought to their attention long before they began writing this PoS? I believe it was mentioned elsewhere here at Jacurutu as well?)

"Smashing the tank..." does not necessarily mean that the suspensors were rendered inoperative as well. (They wouldn't be part of the glass, after all.) Especially in the context of the mistake in the old book.

No progress whatsoever. :roll:
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby SandChigger » 03 Jul 2009 00:05

NOW...

Think ye from this

...Idaho said. "I presume the Great Convention against atomics is still in force and working well?"

"Working even better since we searched out all of the Family atomics and removed them to a safe place," Leto said.

that is was Leto himself who gathered together the family atomics of the Empire? Think again!

At a session of her Regent's Council, by unilateral decree, Alia amended the long-standing rules of the Great Convention that applied to atomics. Previously, Great Houses had been permitted to keep their warheads, which could be used only under strictly defined defensive circumstances. Henceforth, as a temporary emergency measure, no one except the Imperial Regent herself could possess such weaponry.

But how to pry the dangerous warheads from entrenched Landsraad famlies? To begin with, she set up an exchange program, under which noble houses could trade their family atomics for large rewards of spice, voting shares in CHOAM, or other perquisites. In the weeks following the Regent's decree, many Great Houses dutifully surrendered their aomtics, hungry for cash and spice after the hardships of the Jihad. Atomics hadn't been openly used in warfare against rival families in millennia anyway.

So not only was Leto II a failed Kwisatz Haderach, and his Golden Path an illusion and a failure, but now he's also a liar who takes credit for something his aunt did.

But never mind that nonsense, just consider how stupid this really is in Duniverse terms. And I don't even mean the part about an imperial regent unilaterally amending something like the Great Convention, but in practical terms. The Houses Major and Minor may have been cowed into submission and exhausted by the savagery of the Jihad, but giving in to this decree would have been tantamount to surrendering their last line of defense against the throne. If the Corrinos failed to achieve such a thing in over ten thousand years of rule, why should Alia be able to do it in the confusion following Paul's supposed death? Wouldn't there instead have been open revolt across the Imperium?

At least KJA recognizes the problem in part: "...it soon became apparent that certain noble Houses were not quite so forthcoming." (emphasis mine)

Only "certain" Houses? Which Alia tells Duncan to keep an eye on...

Armed with information, she would first try economic reprisals against the passively recalcitrant worlds, but she did not rule out any options, even the application of atomics in particularly stubborn cases. After all, Paul had sterilized ninety worlds over the course of the Jihad, so what was the loss of a few more planets?

In other words, justifying the refusal by the "certain" Great Houses to relinquish their nukes in the first place. :roll:

This makes absolutely no sense in the story universe. It is another example of BAD WRITING.

THIS IS PURE KEVIN J. ANDERSON BULLSHIT. ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES. HOLD YOUR NOSE. :twisted:
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 03 Jul 2009 00:35

SandChigger wrote::shock: ... :laughing:

Schu, bless you! You reminded me:

The captive Steersman Edric had wielded the power of the Spacing Guild and carried the political weight of an appointed ambassador, but his safety depended on civilized restraints that meant nothing to Stilgar. Smashing the tank had been simple. When the spice gas drained away and the Steersman flopped about like a spindly aquatic creature cast up on a hostile shore, Stilgar had gripped the mutant's rubbery flesh and snapped the cartilaginous neck. He had taken no great pleasure in it.

Teacher writes: "Kevin is an active boy and is generally attentive in class, but he seems to lack the capacity to learn from his past mistakes." :roll:

This is specifically one of the things Thing mentioned in one of his threads: it's suspensors that support the Navs in their tanks, not the gas. (Can we get a date from DN just to show this was brought to their attention long before they began writing this PoS? I believe it was mentioned elsewhere here at Jacurutu as well?)

"Smashing the tank..." does not necessarily mean that the suspensors were rendered inoperative as well. (They wouldn't be part of the glass, after all.) Especially in the context of the mistake in the old book.

No progress whatsoever. :roll:


Is that quote from the hardcover? I'm going to have to look at my records, but I remember it being much more blantant in saying that the air was buoying up the navigator - I wonder if I exaggerated that one, or if it has been edited out.
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby SandChigger » 03 Jul 2009 01:34

A Thing of Eternity wrote:Is that quote from the hardcover? I'm going to have to look at my records, but I remember it being much more blantant in saying that the air was buoying up the navigator - I wonder if I exaggerated that one, or if it has been edited out.

Um ... I don't know, since I haven't SEEN the hardcover of this thing yet! :P

(Psssst! Check the thread title again! What book are we talking about here? ;) )

In the book you're thinking of, yes, the passage is much more blatant about it being the gas buoying up the Nav.
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby dunaddict » 03 Jul 2009 04:28

SandChigger wrote:NOW...
Armed with information, she would first try economic reprisals against the passively recalcitrant worlds, but she did not rule out any options, even the application of atomics in particularly stubborn cases. After all, Paul had sterilized ninety worlds over the course of the Jihad, so what was the loss of a few more planets?


This makes absolutely no sense in the story universe. It is another example of BAD WRITING.


Not only does it make no sense, but it also contains one of the reasons I hate their(or his) writing style so much; The dreaded 'would' word. They do this all the time in the McDunes. This character would be doing this, that character would be doing that. Ok, thanks for telling me, but why not show the character actually doing it and let it be a surprise you moron(s). It totally ruins a novel, when you're told what a character is going to do three chapters later on. Oh, the humanity!!! :shock:

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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby SandChigger » 03 Jul 2009 08:10

Good point. I'll check later to see if it's ever brought up again. (I think the reason the Hyron Baha character and his two friends from Tupile approach Jessica is to complain to her about the nuke thing and try to get her to intercede with Alia, but I haven't seen anything further about them or their problem yet.)

I'm not 100% sure, but I think I've found an inconsistency between WoD and House Corrino...

OK, so while Jessica and Duncan and whoever are still on Ix after escorting Paul there (for his "offworld training"), the BG send three RMs to bring Tessia Vernius back to Wallach IX because they want her to play broodmare and pop a sprog or four. One of the BGs is Stokiah, the "guilt-caster" mentioned several times now, and she puts da whammy on Tessy, putting her into a coma. The Vernius Dr House, Yueh, can't do anything for her, so Rhomboid has to agree to let the three witchies take wifey back to Walleye ... precipitating the emotional bruhahahahahaha between Rhomper and Bonzo and blah blah blah leading to Paul and Bonzo in a Face Dancer circus. :roll:

Anyway! Before all of that, it turns out that one of the other two BGs is ... (Wait for it!) ... Wanna Marcus! TA-DA!!!

Yueh recognizes her and she eventually shows up at his digs. They blah blah blah with Yueh revealing all kinds of info to her that he probably should have kept doctor-patient (fuck that Suk shit, huh?) including, eventually, that Bonzo is the result of (gasp!) artificial insemination!!!

Why did I reveal that to her? His expression hardened. "It's much like the prejudice against repairing damaged body parts with my cyborg components. The repairs I made to you demonstrated the potential of my work." He felt the hurt growing inside him again. "You should have been able to conceive a child."

Maybe I'm fuzzy on the details, but did Yueh do the work on Wanna himself? In HC there's a scene with Yueh having a heart-to-h...pump with Rhomboid:

Rhombur saw the doctor's eyes flicker with deep pain, but no tears. "You may not believe this, but I understand. A long time ago, my wife Wanna was seriously injured in an industrial accident. I found a specialist in artificial human control functions—very primitive compared with what you have, Prince. He replaced Wanna's hips, spleen, and uterus with synthetic parts, but she could never have children. We had planned to wait... but we waited too long. Of course Wanna is beyond childbearing age now, but back in those days it was quite traumatic for us." He busied himself putting away his medical instruments.

What reason would Yueh have of concealing the truth from his number-one patient and patron? I mean, for fuck's sake he's just defied the most fundamental proscriptions of the Duniverse and fucking clairbied the man. What, he's afraid Rhomboid will turn him in to fucking ImperPol or something? :roll:

Can anyone remember anything about Yueh doing her plumbing himself? If not, it looks like old Kevvy has fucked the pooch again. Fucking hack can't even keep his own facts straight?

Anyway, the fun part is that Wanna reveals to Yueh that in reality she isn't barren at all and in fact has been shootin' 'em out back at the Muthuh School like a popcorn maker. :roll: But such is his love for her, I guess we're supposed to conclude—or maybe there's more on this I haven't seen yet?—that even after a betrayal like that he's still willing himself to betray the Atreides for her years later. Blah blah blah.

KJA truly is a marvel, huh?
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby Freakzilla » 03 Jul 2009 08:29

Why bother replacing a uterus with an artificial one if it doesn't work? That makes no sense.

SC, I don't know how you can stand to read more of their squeeze.
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 03 Jul 2009 10:55

SandChigger wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Is that quote from the hardcover? I'm going to have to look at my records, but I remember it being much more blantant in saying that the air was buoying up the navigator - I wonder if I exaggerated that one, or if it has been edited out.

Um ... I don't know, since I haven't SEEN the hardcover of this thing yet! :P

(Psssst! Check the thread title again! What book are we talking about here? ;) )

In the book you're thinking of, yes, the passage is much more blatant about it being the gas buoying up the Nav.


Ah... sorry. For some reason I thought you were quoting sandworms. I'm surprised that the fools said the same thing again, though maybe this time they left it more ambiguous because they realized their earlier mistake. Hopefully, thanks to moi. :D
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby Mandy » 03 Jul 2009 14:04

WTF? Having just read the chapters describing Yueh's betrayal of the Atreides.. in particular his thoughts at the time, I find it so hard to believe KJA could write such utter shit. Granted I haven't read any of his previous shit, so it still comes as a shock to me.
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby SandChigger » 03 Jul 2009 20:57

An excellent segue, m'Lady! :P

HOW DOCTOR YUEH CAME TO WORK FOR THE ATREIDES

While Jessica, Leto and Rhomboid were off on Balut retrieving their sons, Duncan and Gurney remained on Ix with a battalion of Atreides soldiers, ostensibly to prevent another House from taking advantage of the Earl's absence and distraction, but in reality to prevent the Technocrat Council from seizing control. Upon his return to Ix, Bronso kicks the Atreides troops out...

The last man to emerge from the military transport ship was not a solider at all, but a slight-figured, sad-looking man with a thin face, sallow features, and long hair bound in a silver Suk ring. Dr. Wellington Yueh looked out of place, unsure of himself.

Because Yueh was unable to save Rhombord, Bronso kicked him out, too. He appeals to Duke Leto for a position as Doctor House or tutor for Paul and like some kind of idiot, Leto accepts.

I always wondered how he came to work for them, didn't you? :roll:
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby SandChigger » 03 Jul 2009 21:27

THE STORY WITHIN THE STORY: THE YOUNG PAUL FLASHBACK

As I mentioned in the "vagabond" thread, this part of the book is presented as being told by Jessica to Irulan while the two are sitting in "a courtyard gazebo" where Irulan was writing before Jessica finds her. Jessica wants Irulan to understand that Paul and Bronso of Ix were once friends...

Jessica lowered her voice, concerned that someone might be eavesdropping, although these events were common knowledge to a person willing to dig into old Imperial records.

During the "Interlude" (Back to the Present!) in the middle of the flashback:

Jessica lifted her chin and lowered her voice to a whisper, suddenly worried again that unseen spies might be recording their conversation.

Then, after she has finished her tale,

Suddenly leery of being overhead, she spoke quietly in one of the Bene Gesserit languages that no normal spy would ever understand.

They also start doing the "saying one thing aloud in common Galach while saying another with their fingers" routine.

What the fuck? How can Jessica "suddenly leery of being overheard" when she was "concerned" about eavesdroppers at the beginning and then again later during the recounting? And why the hell does she only think to switch languages and use the hand signals AFTER she's finished? Did KJA only remember that bit after squirting out all that "polished prose"? (Or is this proof that two hacks really are responsible for this shit, and that they don't bother reading what the other wrote?)

Blow & suck.
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby Redstar » 03 Jul 2009 21:33

SandChigger wrote:What the fuck? How can Jessica "suddenly leery of being overheard" when she was "concerned" about eavesdroppers at the beginning? And why the hell does she only think to switch languages and use the hand signals AFTER she's finished? Did KJA only remember that bit after squirting out all that "polished prose"? (Or is this proof that two hacks really are responsible for this shit, and that they don't bother reading what the other wrote?)

Blow & suck.

Don't they also have "cones of silence", as used by the Count in Dune?

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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby SandChigger » 03 Jul 2009 21:40

Redstar wrote:Don't they also have "cones of silence", as used by the Count in Dune?

Yep. From Dune:

"There's a cone of silence between two of the pillars over here on our left," the Baron said. "We can talk there without fear of being overheard." He led the way with his waddling gait into the sound-deadening field, feeling the noises of the keep become dull and distant.

CONE OF SILENCE: the field of a distorter that limits the carrying power of the voice or any other vibrator by damping the vibrations with an image-vibration 180 degrees out of phase.

They're only mentioned in Dune, though. I guess Irulan never thought to install one. Or maybe Paul outlawed them.

Or maybe Frank got bored with Get Smart. :P

(N.B. I edited my post above while you were replying.)
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby SandChigger » 03 Jul 2009 21:48

THE SOURCE OF PAUL'S ... CHARISMA?

Jessica to Irulan in the gazebo (flashback "Interlude"):

"Haven't you understood what I just told you? Where do you think Paul learned how to manipulate populations, to cast the power of his personality across large crowds? He applied Jongleur techniques not just to an audience for a performance, but to the Fremen, and then to the population of the entire Imperium!"

So forget his native intelligence and talents, forget his aristocratic upbringing, forget the Bene Gesserit techniques Jessica herself taught him, it was the month he spent on the lam with Bronso and the things he learned from the "Jongleurs" that mattered.

Jongleurs ... another great addition to the Duniverse brought to you by Master Shyster Kevin J. Anderson. :twisted:
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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby Omphalos » 04 Jul 2009 00:10

So it was the carny freaks what taught The Muad'dib how to realize his destiny? Add a few unicorns and kittens and Ill bet Hyppo becomes a preek for good.

Really, carny freak imagery was what Asimov used with the Mule. Way to hit the pulps again, Anderson.

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Re: The Winds of Dune: When they blow, they also suck!

Postby SandChigger » 04 Jul 2009 00:32

Isn't it like a classic YA cliché, though? Two boys (princes, essentially) run away from home, concealing their identities, and have some adventures ... what else is there? :roll:
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