Winds of Controversy

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TheDukester
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby TheDukester » 27 Sep 2009 20:05

Good point. I keep forgetting (or maybe I'm blocking it out?) that Kevin J. Anderson is the leader of a gigantic group of morons who think that Paul was "optimistic" at the end of Dune.
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby Slugger » 27 Sep 2009 21:09

Seraphan wrote: Remember what he said about the BSG finale, "I didnt like it, i might write a few chapters of my own". This is what it's all about, along with making money and attempting to glorify his ego.

He seriously said that?

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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby SandChigger » 27 Sep 2009 21:16

IIRC it was in one of his Twitter Twats. ;)
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby TheDukester » 27 Sep 2009 21:22

It was. I think he mentioned BSG a few times, but he specifically called out the series final and basically said that he could have done a better job. The man's ego is without limit.
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby RedHeadKevin » 27 Sep 2009 22:50

Freakzilla wrote:I like to picture them as muscular trapeeze artists.

I like to picture the HM as ninjas fighting off evil samurai.
I don't recommend anyone drink their thigh pad water. It tastes really bad, like ass and dirt.

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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby Samarkan » 30 Sep 2009 03:42

RedHeadKevin wrote:I like to picture the HM as ninjas fighting off evil samurai.


Sadly, so does Kevin J. Anderhole. :violin:

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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby chanilover » 01 Oct 2009 04:29

So KJA Speshul Forces was Swordmasterbater all along? What a sad act.
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby lotek » 01 Oct 2009 05:13

chanilover wrote:So KJA Speshul Forces was Swordmasterbater all along? What a sad act.


the embodiment of sad!
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby MICAH » 01 Oct 2009 07:24

First, you must understand our hate. Most of us did not read KJA's Dune books just so we'd have something to hate. We were lied to. We were told we must read the six prequels in order for the sequels to make sense. Then, when the sequels were written, the only thing that wouldn't have made sense without them is the characters they made up in the prequels! (Omnius and Erasmus).


WORD!! I've been sitting on this whole thing for a few years now. I don't post much, mainly because there are so many others who can argue points much better than myself, but i remember what it felt like to hear that new books(the House Books) were coming out based on a discovered cache of notes written by Frank. The myth of the notes has shown itself in reality to be questionable. It went from notes found here in seattle, to a couple of 3m diskettes and a copy of Heretics with handwritten sidenotes, to a garage filled with boxes of notes, to a 32 odd page outline. Regardless, They were marketed as being mainly taken from the notes. Creatively if Keith ( and mainly Bilbo) were smart they wouldn't have published anything that contradicted any PUBLISHED Dune books. But they didn't. I ain't excusing Brian's mistake in any way shape or form. They BOTH fucked up!!! Royally. But Brian mainly.Everyboy knows this regardless of whatever side of the fence you're standing. It's KJackass' openly arrogant attitude towards anyone calling them on it that garners most of our contempt. Sometimes i wonder if it was just BrianHerbert or Byron or Bill Ransom writing the books by themselves, would the backlash be as bad? Who knows. What i DO know is 10 or so odd books is alot harder to retcon than just 1 or 2(Hunters and Sandworms) and without the actual Heir to the properties publicly taking his knocks for whatever creative decisions made, all we as readers who PAID $ can do is speculate....and heckle. :D

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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby SandRider » 01 Oct 2009 09:08

MICHAH wrote:Sometimes i wonder if it was just Brian Herbert or Byron or Bill Ransom writing the books by themselves, would the backlash be as bad? Who knows.


into the dubious realm of speculation here,
but what can be said with certainty is that using tehKJA
opened up the project to a whole 'nother level of Fail & AIDS.

all his past Fails can be used against him in attacking his current Fails.


(I mean, how bad do you have to suck to disappoint Star Warz fanboys ?)
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby Lundse » 01 Oct 2009 09:11

MICHAH wrote:Sometimes i wonder if it was just Brian Herbert or Byron or Bill Ransom writing the books by themselves, would the backlash be as bad? Who knows.


A bit of humility would go a long way, in itself. If they had just come out and said "this is our take on it" and at least tried to be consistent and not actively defecating on Franks ideas and themes, I'd say live and let live.
But the idea that "religion is good, heroes are nifty and robots are evil" is simply pissing on Franks grave. They fired the first shot long before Chigger or anyone else started badmouthing them!

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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby SandChigger » 01 Oct 2009 12:30

(MICAH speaks! :dance: )

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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 01 Oct 2009 12:45

Well, if Bill Ransom was writing Dune books by himself they would be kicking ass, so no... I don't think backlash would be as bad!
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby Lundse » 01 Oct 2009 13:36

This discussions says it all, doesn't it?

Dune fans in all seriousness going "you know, if they had gotten a real author instead..."

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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby rain_maker » 01 Oct 2009 15:50

Lundse wrote:This discussions says it all, doesn't it?

Dune fans in all seriousness going "you know, if they had gotten a real author instead..."


I actually disagree with this statement. While I do completely agree that a real author would have likely avoided many of the horrible inconsistencies, errors and egotistical retconings which have been committed by the Hack, I believe the real issue centers on the alleged "notes" which caused most of us to purchase (some of) these books in the first place.

A 3rd grader could have written Dune 7 and few of us would be complaining, provided that the claim of "finding the notes" was true and said 3rd grader made an effort to stay true to the notes. Unfortunately, what Bobo and the Hack have done is lie to millions of people, thus (i) convincing them to trade their money for what ultimately amounts to young adult fiction in the style and narrative of the Hack's "pew-pew" adventures (TM?) where some of the characters have the same name as the characters in Dune, and (ii) simultaneously shiting all over Frank Herbert's legacy by misrepresenting their "work" as, indirectly, Frank's own.

This is not to say in any way that you're incorrect in stating (agreeing?) that a "real" author could have done some incredible things with the Dune universe, likely crystalizing Frank Herbert's legacy and confirming their own, while also making a rediculous amount of money for the HLP and Bobo.
I had no idea that there were this many Frank Herbert fans left alive, what with the head exploding horror that is the KJA/BH atrocity.

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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby Leto » 01 Oct 2009 17:29

The most incomprehensible is they failed in the pure business way.

Indeed, they could have "paid" (and I'm sure many "real" author would have done it for a buck, just to continue FH's envision) an author, get the money, have the support of the readers without making any effort of their own...

So stupid they are! Be paid by doing nothing. Ah Brian, Brian, Brian...
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby SandChigger » 01 Oct 2009 18:35

Brian wanted his name on the best-seller lists. Period. And he sure as hell wasn't going to get there on his own.

(Has he ever published anything that doesn't have "son of Frank Herbert" on it somewhere?)
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby Omphalos » 01 Oct 2009 19:30

His prior masterpiece was The Notebooks of Frank Herbert's Dune. :roll:

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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby TheDukester » 01 Oct 2009 22:09

SandChigger wrote:Brian wanted his name on the best-seller lists.

I'd add only that I often wonder whether Bobo didn't also need some income, and had no real prospects of earning any.

"Hey, why not put my name on some 'Dune' books by Kevin J. Anderson? Fat checks, guaranteed, just as fast as he can hike them out!"
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby SandRider » 02 Oct 2009 00:49

c'mon now, what about the insurance salesman jokebook ?

that was a best seller, and widely acclaimed and ...

wait, no it wasn't.

well, there was the .... no.

uh ...
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby chanilover » 02 Oct 2009 05:30

SandChigger wrote:(MICAH speaks! :dance: )


Now he needs to post his pics! If I remember rightly, MICAH is another Filipino! And a full-blodded one, now a half-Pinoy mutt like me! 8)
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby Lundse » 02 Oct 2009 06:30

rain_maker wrote:
Lundse wrote:This discussions says it all, doesn't it?

Dune fans in all seriousness going "you know, if they had gotten a real author instead..."


I actually disagree with this statement.


Well, I agree with you. So there :-)

You are right that the worst part is the misrepresentation of Franks work. To me, this is twofold:
1) Claiming they have notes and are using them. That is, their claim of canonicity and 'special insight' into Franks work and thoughts.
2) Belittling Franks ideas and themes (Norma, Leto II as 'wrong', Paul as naive-then-tyrant, etc. etc. etc ad nauseum).

(These are also the reasons why KJA and the other guy, and the HLP, are not just failing on the level of authors or business-men, but as decent human beings).

My comment was just on the absurdity of the situation - the same behaviour from a good author would be equally wrong (just lighter on the eyes). But it testament to the HLP's insanity that we are wishing for a real author - whereas they were apparently happy with a rent-a-hack.

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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 02 Oct 2009 12:39

Omphalos wrote:His prior masterpiece was The Notebooks of Frank Herbert's Dune. :roll:

I actually bought that because I thought it was a collection of notes FH had made while writing Dune. What a ripoff, I paid something like $30 used.
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby rain_maker » 02 Oct 2009 14:05

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Omphalos wrote:His prior masterpiece was The Notebooks of Frank Herbert's Dune. :roll:

I actually bought that because I thought it was a collection of notes FH had made while writing Dune. What a ripoff, I paid something like $30 used.


Oh ... my ... god!

I thought Omphalos was kidding. In my mind, this proves once and for all that anything with "Frank Herbert's Dune" on the cover will sell. It's a "collection" of quotes from the published books for christ-sakes.

Lundse wrote:Well, I agree with you. So there :-)

You are right that the worst part is the misrepresentation of Franks work. To me, this is twofold:
1) Claiming they have notes and are using them. That is, their claim of canonicity and 'special insight' into Franks work and thoughts.
2) Belittling Franks ideas and themes (Norma, Leto II as 'wrong', Paul as naive-then-tyrant, etc. etc. etc ad nauseum).

(These are also the reasons why KJA and the other guy, and the HLP, are not just failing on the level of authors or business-men, but as decent human beings).

My comment was just on the absurdity of the situation - the same behaviour from a good author would be equally wrong (just lighter on the eyes). But it testament to the HLP's insanity that we are wishing for a real author - whereas they were apparently happy with a rent-a-hack.


True that ... true that.

I believe the thing that we are really all wishing for is an "author". Using the term "real author" gives the Hack too much credit for his hike-tating.
I had no idea that there were this many Frank Herbert fans left alive, what with the head exploding horror that is the KJA/BH atrocity.

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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby Omphalos » 02 Oct 2009 14:46

He "wrote" another book like that called Songs of Paul, or something like that, which is nothing but the poetry and songs from the Dune books.