Winds of Controversy

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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby redbugpest » 24 Sep 2009 12:04

I’m sorry you feel that way, but I feel I did make an honest effort on some of the issues. The problem is we are looking at it from two distinctly different viewpoints. You also have been compiling your lists for quite some time and wanted answers that I just was not prepared to give.

So let’s start here – The overwhelming evidence points to Paul being born on Caladan. I will concede that point right now. That does not, however, take away from the enjoyment that I received from reading neither the Original Dune books, nor the new Dune books.
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby TheDukester » 24 Sep 2009 12:06

Oh, silly, silly troll ...

Nothing will annoy people here faster — including admins with the power to ban you — than trying to play the old "I can't see him, so you all have to tell me what he's saying" game.

It's old, it's stupid, it's annoying, and you're not the first troll to try it.
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby SandRider » 24 Sep 2009 12:16

TheDukester wrote:
KJA Special Forces wrote:Who did I insult?

That one wasn't directed at you. You need to follow the quoting better.

+++++

Brian, just please tell me: this isn't you, right? Because the "sign on at the same time as two different people" thing never works.



samefag ??
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby redbugpest » 24 Sep 2009 12:16

TheDukester wrote:
KJA Special Forces wrote:Who did I insult?

That one wasn't directed at you. You need to follow the quoting better.

+++++

Brian, just please tell me: this isn't you, right? Because the "sign on at the same time as two different people" thing never works.


No - not me. Not sure who it it either...
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby redbugpest » 24 Sep 2009 12:17

SandRider wrote:
TheDukester wrote:
KJA Special Forces wrote:Who did I insult?

That one wasn't directed at you. You need to follow the quoting better.

+++++

Brian, just please tell me: this isn't you, right? Because the "sign on at the same time as two different people" thing never works.



samefag ??



If you do not beleive me, check your IP logs....
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby KJA Special Forces » 24 Sep 2009 12:19

redbugpest wrote:
TheDukester wrote:
KJA Special Forces wrote:Who did I insult?

That one wasn't directed at you. You need to follow the quoting better.

+++++

Brian, just please tell me: this isn't you, right? Because the "sign on at the same time as two different people" thing never works.


No - not me. Not sure who it it either...


Oh gosh, Brian would never come here. He would be so depresed by what he read. I would never WANT him to read some of the stuff here. Brian would be devestated byy this stuff. Thats why he wont use email anymore.

As for me, Im just me.
Last edited by KJA Special Forces on 24 Sep 2009 12:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 24 Sep 2009 12:19

KJA Special Forces wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:
redbugpest wrote:
KJA Special Forces wrote:
redbugpest wrote:You will never get to stop defending yourself so long as you keep giving back what you are getting. Try a more pacifistic approach. If someone is only giving you hate, just foe them.

Easy breezy....


Thanks for the advice. I tried to be insulting to fit in but they just get worse. You are wise, thanks for the advice.


Been there, done that. It doesn’t go over too well. there has to be a meeting of the minds and an acceptance of the concept that it is ok for people to have other views (on both sides) before understanding of what is banter and what is real angst can take place.

With that being said, I am extending an open apology of any past instances that may have been , or were perceived as inflammatory towards anyone here.

It’s all too easy to let our passions override our good judgment.


Get out of here troll. I tried very hard to treat you well and gave you an honest chance to debate the quality of the hack's writing, and you danced around issues and spent most of your time insulting people. You behaved like a child and dissapointed me, dispite my already low expectations.


Who did I insult?


That was directed at RBP.
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby KJA Special Forces » 24 Sep 2009 12:20

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
KJA Special Forces wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:
redbugpest wrote:
KJA Special Forces wrote:
redbugpest wrote:You will never get to stop defending yourself so long as you keep giving back what you are getting. Try a more pacifistic approach. If someone is only giving you hate, just foe them.

Easy breezy....


Thanks for the advice. I tried to be insulting to fit in but they just get worse. You are wise, thanks for the advice.


Been there, done that. It doesn’t go over too well. there has to be a meeting of the minds and an acceptance of the concept that it is ok for people to have other views (on both sides) before understanding of what is banter and what is real angst can take place.

With that being said, I am extending an open apology of any past instances that may have been , or were perceived as inflammatory towards anyone here.

It’s all too easy to let our passions override our good judgment.


Get out of here troll. I tried very hard to treat you well and gave you an honest chance to debate the quality of the hack's writing, and you danced around issues and spent most of your time insulting people. You behaved like a child and dissapointed me, dispite my already low expectations.


Who did I insult?


That was directed at RBP.


Ok cool, thanks. I really have no interest in insults and the like. Im not very good at it, as you might have seen from my "yo
moma joke" LOLZ
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby redbugpest » 24 Sep 2009 12:22

KJA Special Forces wrote:He seems to just hate me because I like KJA. Its difficult to respond to insults without more insults. If he asks me anything, I will not see it because I foed him. If he has a question he can ask someone else to ask me and I will respond to it.


If someone else quotes him, you will see it too.
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby Freakzilla » 24 Sep 2009 12:25

redbugpest wrote:
KJA Special Forces wrote:He seems to just hate me because I like KJA. Its difficult to respond to insults without more insults. If he asks me anything, I will not see it because I foed him. If he has a question he can ask someone else to ask me and I will respond to it.


If someone else quotes him, you will see it too.


I think y'all are the ones who should answer some questions if you wish to be taken seriously.
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby lotek » 24 Sep 2009 12:28

it's too late for that IMO :)
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby TheDukester » 24 Sep 2009 12:33

redbugpest wrote:IThe overwhelming evidence points to Paul being born on Caladan. I will concede that point right now. That does not, however, take away from the enjoyment that I received from reading neither the Original Dune books, nor the new Dune books.

Brian, an interesting point about that (in all seriousness, not trying to start something) is that it does a lot to change Paul's character. And not in a good way.

I think it was DuneFish who brought this up weeks ago, but I'll paraphrase: when we meet Paul in Dune, we are shown that he is, in so many ways, not a normal young man. He has no peers his own age; he's surrounded by adults all the time; he's being groomed for all kinds of wondrous feats when he gets older. There's a sense of loneliness there, and of being forced to grow old too early.

Now, contrast this with ... what? Frankly, it doesn't seem like Keith and Bobo even had a point in contradicting Paul's childhood. From a literary standpoint, it serves zero purpose. Unless ...

Unless ...

Unless all they wanted to do was to have some freedom to make a good chunk of money writing the adventures of Young Indiana Atreides. But they couldn't do that when the very first page of Dune tells us explicitly how Paul was sheltered and protected and never even went off-world. Big problem ... unless you just ignore it and decide that Frank Herbert's entire Dune output can be tossed aside as in-universe propaganda.

Okay, fine. My point? It's that I'm hoping you see that there's a lot of passion here about not only the Dune canon, but also about simple concepts like respect. It's massively disrespectful for Keith and that other guy to try to shove aside one of the great works of American literature just because they want to cash in on some YA nonsense with Paul. And one of them is even his son! It's just shameful.

So while Paul leaving Caladan to juggle fruits and vegatables might work for you, it's never going to work for your core audience here. Never. "Conceding the point" isn't even really the issue; there's a lot of evidence that both Kevin J. Anderson and Brian Herbert actually hate Frank Herbert (well, one would be hate; the other would just be insane jealousy) and would like nothing more than to discredit his memory and his most famous creation. So, yeah, concede all you want to, but understand that there's going to be some passion coming from our side.

I guess what I'm saying is that, in the end, if you choose to debate some of the issues in those other threads, it's probably not going to be fair. I know that we'll try to respect any arguments that are thought-out, supported by evidence, etc., but there's going to be times when you just run into pure passion.

Wow, not sure where all that came from! I'm supposed to be working! :)
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby KJA Special Forces » 24 Sep 2009 13:01

Freakzilla wrote:
redbugpest wrote:
KJA Special Forces wrote:He seems to just hate me because I like KJA. Its difficult to respond to insults without more insults. If he asks me anything, I will not see it because I foed him. If he has a question he can ask someone else to ask me and I will respond to it.


If someone else quotes him, you will see it too.


I think y'all are the ones who should answer some questions if you wish to be taken seriously.


Ask away Freakzilla
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 24 Sep 2009 13:07

KJA Special Forces wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
redbugpest wrote:
KJA Special Forces wrote:He seems to just hate me because I like KJA. Its difficult to respond to insults without more insults. If he asks me anything, I will not see it because I foed him. If he has a question he can ask someone else to ask me and I will respond to it.


If someone else quotes him, you will see it too.


I think y'all are the ones who should answer some questions if you wish to be taken seriously.


Ask away Freakzilla


Let me start.

How do you feel about the way KJA's "dune 7" completely undermined and contradicted everything FH was trying to use Dune to teach people? FH has stated repeatedly that the main message behind Dune is to avoid stagnation, and avoid heroes (including charismatic leaders). Then, in "dune 7" there are a ton of subplots, but none of them contribute IN ANY WAY to the final resolution of the book, where Norma shows up and does what humanity simply could not accomplish on it's own.

Nothing anything any of the other characters did in the books had any chance at saving humanity, the resolution of the book showed that the only way for humanity to be saved is by a superhero/god (norma) and to then rally around a central charismatic leader (Duncan).

BOTH OF THOSE COMPLETELY UNDERMINE FH's WORK.

How do you justify this?
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby redbugpest » 24 Sep 2009 13:09

You are right about the more lonely nature and innocence of Paul as seen in Dune, but I would add this. I think it is unlikely that he would have had no friends and have been court off from any contact with the other great houses. In the medieval feudalistic environment that Frank modeled this after it was quite common for nobles to cultivate friendships between the sons and daughters of privilege as often as they could (bearing in mind that it was risky and time consuming to travel) He also would have had friends among the children of the wealthy and influential families on Caladan.

Yes, as the son of a Duke he would have been insulated from a lot of normal things, and would have been forced to grow up early, but I do not think that it is unreasonable to think that he may have developed a friendship with Bronso in their youth. Frank was clear in the novels that Paul was born on Caladan, and that going to Dune was his first trip off world.
I think that Frank was a little unrealistic with that in Dune (though I will concede that from the standpoint of canon, it is not correct to say otherwise, with the caveat that I can see the possibility that Frank may have had notes from earlier iterations that contradicted what he finally published, and that KJA and BH decided that they could use that as their reasoning).

I am sure that Duke Leto, and Jessica both had cause to travel off world from time to time, and could have conceivably taken him with them.

Is it a departure from canon? Yes. Is it disrespectful? Well that is really a matter of opinion, and I do not see any significant harm in it, nor do I think any disrespect was intended by it. For me, it does not change Paul’s nature in a significant way.

I guess I read with two sets of eyes. When I read any of the original books, I read with FH’s eyes, and when I read the new books, I read with KJA / BH eyes (Hmmm, 3 sets). I do not ever expect the KJA/BH books to strike the same chord that the FH books do. I enjoy them for what they are separately.
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 24 Sep 2009 13:15

I love that 9 out of 10 people's defense of the new books eventually gets hammered down by our reasoning until they start admitting that KJABH messed up pretty much everything, but they "just like it anyways".

I don't have any counter arguments to that. Some people like Coors more than artisan microbrewed beer, some people like Britney Spears more than Rush, some people like McDonalds more than proper home cooking.

The only thing I can say when people start admitting that they KNOW that what they like is inferior to the real thing is that you must at least COMPREHEND our hatred of it?

EDIT TO ADD: You admit that they go against canon in this case (roughly every single page of every book contradicts canon in some way, and yes, I will take requests to prove that statement!), but THEY DO NOT. Even in cases where they have OBVIOUSLY been caught simply not doing their research, or not doing enough editing, or simply missunderstanding FH, they continue to INSIST that they have not made a mistake or deviated from canon. They invent rediculous cover stories.

Can you admit that that is childish? Or do you think they honestly don't know that they're screwing up? It's one or the other, they can't admit their mistakes or they aren't smart enough to recognise them.
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby SandChigger » 24 Sep 2009 13:28

Back to the earlier pages of the thread for a moment...

KJA Special Forces wrote:There is a legal case building vs. Ronald Craig for Slander and Impersonation.

Right. Like KJA/the HLP are going to let some peon suck-up from KJA's masturbatory "fansite" know details like that. :roll: (Well, OK, maybe I can actually see TheKJA posting shit like that behind the secure walls of his Secretest Fortress just to impress his little sucky-fuckies! :laughing: )

I was in the States for a month and got no phone calls and no letters from any lawyers. I've never received any contact of a legal nature regarding my website or anything I have ever posted re this mattter. My relatives back home who take care of my mail and other affairs while I'm out of the country have instructions to contact me immediately if anything remotely interesting shows up.

And as I have stated repeatedly, I was not "TehKJA" or the Brian Herbert or any other account on Twitter other than TheKJANonFan. Any case purporting to have evidence to the contrary is a case built on supposition or outright LIES & FABRICATION.

Now back to the feeding of moronic trolls.... :D
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby redbugpest » 24 Sep 2009 13:29

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I love that 9 out of 10 people's defense of the new books eventually gets hammered down by our reasoning until they start admitting that KJABH messed up pretty much everything, but they "just like it anyways".

I don't have any counter arguments to that. Some people like Coors more than artisan microbrewed beer, some people like Britney Spears more than Rush, some people like McDonalds more than proper home cooking.

The only thing I can say when people start admitting that they KNOW that what they like is inferior to the real thing is that you must at least COMPREHEND our hatred of it?


Britney Spears is inferior to Rush (in my eyes at least). I hate her, and think that she is a slut, and a bad role model for kids. The difference is I do not keep buying her CDs so I can trash them all over cyberspace.
If she covered some Rush tunes, I doubt that I would like them. I might even be offended at her take on them. I just wouldn’t buy them, and change the station when she comes on. And, yes I am a huge Rush fanatic. I have seen them in concert 9 times over the years, and own every scrap of music that any of the members have published.
If you liked Britney, and I actively worked on getting her banned from music, and told you that you were less intelligent for listening to her music, etc, etc, etc how would you react?
Comprehending your dislike for the new Dune books is easy. Accepting it is easy. I promise that I will never ever make you read them. Please do not try and take away my right to read them.
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 24 Sep 2009 13:42

redbugpest wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:I love that 9 out of 10 people's defense of the new books eventually gets hammered down by our reasoning until they start admitting that KJABH messed up pretty much everything, but they "just like it anyways".

I don't have any counter arguments to that. Some people like Coors more than artisan microbrewed beer, some people like Britney Spears more than Rush, some people like McDonalds more than proper home cooking.

The only thing I can say when people start admitting that they KNOW that what they like is inferior to the real thing is that you must at least COMPREHEND our hatred of it?


Britney Spears is inferior to Rush (in my eyes at least). I hate her, and think that she is a slut, and a bad role model for kids. The difference is I do not keep buying her CDs so I can trash them all over cyberspace.
If she covered some Rush tunes, I doubt that I would like them. I might even be offended at her take on them. I just wouldn’t buy them, and change the station when she comes on. And, yes I am a huge Rush fanatic. I have seen them in concert 9 times over the years, and own every scrap of music that any of the members have published.
If you liked Britney, and I actively worked on getting her banned from music, and told you that you were less intelligent for listening to her music, etc, etc, etc how would you react?
Comprehending your dislike for the new Dune books is easy. Accepting it is easy. I promise that I will never ever make you read them. Please do not try and take away my right to read them.


Fair enough, you think anything we do will ever have enough of an impact to make them stop writing this garbage? No - so we're not taking away your right to read them, nor are we attempting to.

Why do some of us still read the new books? Because it's fascinating. Utterly amazing the depths to which they contadict Frank Herbert, and the way they turn his well rounded characters into cardboard cutouts.

We discuss this, becuase it is important to us. This isn't just like Spears covering Rush (which would be terrible, I like you am a Rush lover), this is like her covering them and then rewriting the lyrics to mean the opposite of what Rush was saying in the songs. In that situation, yeah, a lot of people would read the new lyrics and start bitching, loudly. A cover can be ignored, and if these new books weren't completel undermining FH's work, they could be ignored as well. I don't have a problem with new Dune being written, I have a problem with Dune being turned into an incmprehensilble mess of contradictions and messages FH would have been strongly opposed to. A cover can be ignored - a contradictory re-write cannot.
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby SandChigger » 24 Sep 2009 13:46

redbugpest wrote:but I do not think that it is unreasonable to think that he may have developed a friendship with Bronso in their youth.

EXCEPT that there was NO HOUSE VERNIUS (or cyborg Rhombur) and no evidence that Bronso of Ix was a noble.

Frank was clear in the novels that Paul was born on Caladan, and that going to Dune was his first trip off world.
I think that Frank was a little unrealistic with that in Dune (though I will concede that from the standpoint of canon, it is not correct to say otherwise, with the caveat that I can see the possibility that Frank may have had notes from earlier iterations that contradicted what he finally published, and that KJA and BH decided that they could use that as their reasoning).

YOU can see the possibility? At least in the old days The Almighty Zeus claimed that Kevin had told him things; you're just offering your own opinions and suppositions. Be a good go-between and bring something real to the table or fuck off. Did they find such notes? Is that what they're claiming? If not, this is just more misdirection. And if it is, it's still a FAIL because the Notes contradict WHAT WAS ACTUALLY PUBLISHED. There's no room for "reasoning": it doesn't matter if Frank Herbert himself wrote something that was never published, it's NOT CANON. Period.

I am sure that Duke Leto, and Jessica both had cause to travel off world from time to time, and could have conceivably taken him with them.

Except that the Duke himself says to Paul in Dune that IT NEVER HAPPENED. Was it a momentary lapse on the Duke's part then? And Paul didn't correct his father out of respect? No wait, that doesn't work, either, because if Paul had EVER been off-planet before, he surely would have known whether Guild ships were "really big" and wouldn't have had to ask the question that the Duke was responding to.

Any way you look at it, MASSIVE FAIL.

Is it a departure from canon? Yes. Is it disrespectful? Well that is really a matter of opinion, and I do not see any significant harm in it, nor do I think any disrespect was intended by it. For me, it does not change Paul’s nature in a significant way.

Yes, but with your head up KJA's asshole, you can't SEE much of anything, can you?

I guess I read with two sets of eyes. When I read any of the original books, I read with FH’s eyes, and when I read the new books, I read with KJA / BH eyes (Hmmm, 3 sets). I do not ever expect the KJA/BH books to strike the same chord that the FH books do. I enjoy them for what they are separately.

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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby Leto » 24 Sep 2009 13:57

A Thing of Eternity wrote:Then, in "dune 7" there are a ton of subplots, but none of them contribute IN ANY WAY to the final resolution of the book, where Norma shows up and does what humanity simply could not accomplish on it's own.


That's exactly the same in Legends of Dune when the Titan's starship appears at the very good moment (i.e. when Brian & Kevin were lost in their writings) to save the situation.
I'm sorry but it's to easy and that's not litterature. I used to think, to dream with FH's Dune. I might travel over the desert, be solely with Paul's sorrow, aso. With nuDune, I cannot do it anymore.
Everybody screamed when Peter Berg said : "[The book] was much more muscular and adventurous, more violent and possibly even a little bit more fun. [...]I think those are all elements of my experience of the book that can be brought in without offending the die-hard fans of the Bene Gesserit and Kwisatz Haderach. There's a more dynamic film to be made.".

But that what Brian & Kevin are actually doing... :tissue2: :tissue2:
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby Leto » 24 Sep 2009 14:04

redbugpest wrote:Britney Spears is inferior to Rush (in my eyes at least). I hate her, and think that she is a slut, and a bad role model for kids.


What?!! Mo****f****!!!!
:angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming:









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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby redbugpest » 24 Sep 2009 14:07

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
redbugpest wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:I love that 9 out of 10 people's defense of the new books eventually gets hammered down by our reasoning until they start admitting that KJABH messed up pretty much everything, but they "just like it anyways".

I don't have any counter arguments to that. Some people like Coors more than artisan microbrewed beer, some people like Britney Spears more than Rush, some people like McDonalds more than proper home cooking.

The only thing I can say when people start admitting that they KNOW that what they like is inferior to the real thing is that you must at least COMPREHEND our hatred of it?


Britney Spears is inferior to Rush (in my eyes at least). I hate her, and think that she is a slut, and a bad role model for kids. The difference is I do not keep buying her CDs so I can trash them all over cyberspace.
If she covered some Rush tunes, I doubt that I would like them. I might even be offended at her take on them. I just wouldn’t buy them, and change the station when she comes on. And, yes I am a huge Rush fanatic. I have seen them in concert 9 times over the years, and own every scrap of music that any of the members have published.
If you liked Britney, and I actively worked on getting her banned from music, and told you that you were less intelligent for listening to her music, etc, etc, etc how would you react?
Comprehending your dislike for the new Dune books is easy. Accepting it is easy. I promise that I will never ever make you read them. Please do not try and take away my right to read them.


Fair enough, you think anything we do will ever have enough of an impact to make them stop writing this garbage? No - so we're not taking away your right to read them, nor are we attempting to.

Why do some of us still read the new books? Because it's fascinating. Utterly amazing the depths to which they contadict Frank Herbert, and the way they turn his well rounded characters into cardboard cutouts.

We discuss this, becuase it is important to us. This isn't just like Spears covering Rush (which would be terrible, I like you am a Rush lover), this is like her covering them and then rewriting the lyrics to mean the opposite of what Rush was saying in the songs. In that situation, yeah, a lot of people would read the new lyrics and start bitching, loudly. A cover can be ignored, and if these new books weren't completel undermining FH's work, they could be ignored as well. I don't have a problem with new Dune being written, I have a problem with Dune being turned into an incmprehensilble mess of contradictions and messages FH would have been strongly opposed to. A cover can be ignored - a contradictory re-write cannot.


And I am fine with you reading it because you want to see that is going to tweak you next. That is it own form of utility. I think a cover can be as contradictory a rewrite as what you claim the new Dune books are (though I do not agree that that is the case – again which is subject to the individual interpretation of the reader).

Even if I were to agree that it was an abhorrent thing to do, I would not be inclined to go to the extreme measures of protest that some people are doing with the Dune issue.

You have established a place to vent your angst and engage in discussion with like minded people.

You have a wealth of interpretations (some solid, some not so solid) to support your point of view.

You freely invite (at our own risk) people of opposing points of view.

All great things. Honestly.

It is the extremist efforts of some of the like minded folks that actually hurt your credibility, and your ability to persuade others that your point of view is more relevant. That is what gets my ire up.

I’m happy to have a discussion on it, I’m happy to revise my point of view in light of new information that I feel is credible and supported by facts.

But, I may never fully agree with you, and do not deserve to be treated in a demeaning or insulting manor when I express my opinion on third party sites (aka Amazon). Here, well, this is your house, so I have to take what is given, just as I have that right at my armies of Chaos site. My house, my rules.

We may not agree, but we need to move the argument back to a position of mutual respect, and in doing so, others who may be on the fence will pick a side based on the merits of the arguments that each side makes.

I saw in a post that Freak would love to have more of us “preeks” here for more debate, but so long as the talk is all in the language of hate from both sides, people will probably just keep going else ware.

Am I making sense to you?
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redbugpest
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby redbugpest » 24 Sep 2009 14:11

Leto wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Then, in "dune 7" there are a ton of subplots, but none of them contribute IN ANY WAY to the final resolution of the book, where Norma shows up and does what humanity simply could not accomplish on it's own.


That's exactly the same in Legends of Dune when the Titan's starship appears at the very good moment (i.e. when Brian & Kevin were lost in their writings) to save the situation.
I'm sorry but it's to easy and that's not litterature. I used to think, to dream with FH's Dune. I might travel over the desert, be solely with Paul's sorrow, aso. With nuDune, I cannot do it anymore.
Everybody screamed when Peter Berg said : "[The book] was much more muscular and adventurous, more violent and possibly even a little bit more fun. [...]I think those are all elements of my experience of the book that can be brought in without offending the die-hard fans of the Bene Gesserit and Kwisatz Haderach. There's a more dynamic film to be made.".

But that what Brian & Kevin are actually doing... :tissue2: :tissue2:


You are still trying to compare Apples and Oranges - they might both be fruit (fiction) but they are not the same.
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redbugpest
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Re: Winds of Controversy

Postby redbugpest » 24 Sep 2009 14:14

Leto wrote:
redbugpest wrote:Britney Spears is inferior to Rush (in my eyes at least). I hate her, and think that she is a slut, and a bad role model for kids.


What?!! Mo****f****!!!!
:angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming: :angry-screaming:

She is Lovley and Unique in all Things!

:whistle:








:laughing:
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