Jongleur.....why?

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Jongleur.....why?

Postby Unfront » 03 Jan 2010 17:20

Who has the jongleur fetish of the two? Keith or Brian? and Why does it have to be inserted so much into the story? I thought the concept was stupid in House Corrino, but here we have it again.... I just sat down to read Jessica to the Winds of Dune and I am only 100 pages into it and the word jongleur has been coming up over and over and over again. Stop with the Ren-Fair crap already!!!!!!!!!! (No offense to Ren Fair, just, not in my Dune please!)
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby Omphalos » 03 Jan 2010 17:54

I'm pretty sure it's Anderson, and it doesn't appear to be a RenFaire kind of thing. He's really into Prog Rock, and what brief exposure I have had to the whole mime troupe thing comes from Prog Rock imagery, not from the middle ages.

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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby SandChigger » 03 Jan 2010 19:24

You know, I've never really bothered looking the word up before now because I knew it from French and just assumed that in English it was only a hoity-toity way of saying "juggler" or acrobat. But my dictionary app says

jongleur noun historical, an itinerant minstrel.

ORIGIN French, variant of jougleur ‘juggler,’ earlier jogleor ‘pleasant, smiling,’ from Latin joculator ‘joker.’

When I think of minstrels, I think of music and singing. Has the dipshit been misusing the word this whole time, or is the above definition lacking, especially in the sense used in the Proct Rock circles?
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby lotek » 03 Jan 2010 19:27

Omphalos wrote:I'm pretty sure it's Anderson, and it doesn't appear to be a RenFaire kind of thing. He's really into Prog Rock, and what brief exposure I have had to the whole mime troupe thing comes from Prog Rock imagery, not from the middle ages.


does it really?
jeez that man's shallowness will never cease to amaze me...
where Frank Herbert used religious myths and deep implication the hack goes for that?

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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby Ampoliros » 03 Jan 2010 20:54

Wasn't there some relation for his love of jongleurs to him seeing a Cirque du Solei performance?
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby Unfront » 03 Jan 2010 23:05

Ampoliros wrote:Wasn't there some relation for his love of jongleurs to him seeing a Cirque du Solei performance?


Jongleur is like some sort of circus performer, juggler, mime, minstral type. So it must have been from his amazement at Jerk du Solei.

As I am getting further into this "Jessica farts in my face of Dune" I just see more and more bafoonery. When Jessica tells Irulan the story of Paul's younger days, it cuts back to that time, as if I am watching a remake of Princess Bride or something.
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby Ampoliros » 03 Jan 2010 23:29

Just wait, WoD has several precious moments of amazing WTF-ness.

Everything that has to do with the Guild. Everything. Everything.

Duncan and Gurney spending several days shopping instead of looking for Paul

Everything that has to do with Security. Especially Guild Security.

The status of women. Seriously, I counted. The ONLY time women are allowed to use a private landing space is when they are with men. Pretty much every time they are sent to a public spaceport and not always with an escort. Jessica also takes a Guild transport back to Caladan alone. As in Fucking Totally By Herself.

Everything that has to do with the Guild. Oh sorry I mentioned that.

Jongleurs, Wayku and Face Dancers have some kind of connection. Face Dancers are Tleilaxu creations. Tleilaxu aren't blamed for anything the Face Dancers do. Actually, neither are the Face Dancers really. Especially the ones that are actually guilty. (seriously, Face Dancers show up and disrupt the execution, Alia wants them dead. They Escape. 5 minutes later Face Dancers show up in front of Alia and perform Jongleur stuff. Alia orders her priests to "reward them handsomely" )

Everything that has to do with the Guild. Sense a pattern?
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby Omphalos » 04 Jan 2010 01:05

SandChigger wrote:You know, I've never really bothered looking the word up before now because I knew it from French and just assumed that in English it was only a hoity-toity way of saying "juggler" or acrobat. But my dictionary app says

jongleur noun historical, an itinerant minstrel.

ORIGIN French, variant of jougleur ‘juggler,’ earlier jogleor ‘pleasant, smiling,’ from Latin joculator ‘joker.’

When I think of minstrels, I think of music and singing. Has the dipshit been misusing the word this whole time, or is the above definition lacking, especially in the sense used in the Proct Rock circles?


I think it was Marillion - maybe another band - which in the 80's put out an album or two about a powerful clown/performer/minstrel. Ive always seen the connection there. Other prog rock imagery that is familiar is more about clowns. Seems to turn up a lot there. I think that they find the whole circus thing to be romantic and worthy of comment.

I think I also remember reading somewhere that he wrote this one and that Edge of the World thing at the same time, and that one he admits is heavily laden with imagery that prog rockers use frequently.

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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby chanilover » 04 Jan 2010 05:04

When I read Jongleurs I think of the stand-up comedy clubs here in the UK.

Maybe CombOver is showing off his linguistic skills by throwing in random foreign-looking words. Weren't those Wayku the flight attendants in the headphones?
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby Unfront » 04 Jan 2010 12:15

With both Jongleur's and the whole "House Wayku" thing (another regurgitation of Keith and Brian medling from House Corrino) it is obvious that these guys are operating under the notion that if you just repeat the BS often enough, that it will eventually become the truth. :Adolf:

I mean, these Jessica Pays a Visit to the Throne to Pass Winds of Dune books that Keith has come up with only serve to confuse the real story with their made up crap. Surely Frank did not leave behind so many notes that they could come up with these intervenquels. And if so, he chopped these scenes out and ignored what was in his notes for good reason: because it did not fit the story.

Then these guys inject this stuff back into the story (Jessica is forced upon Leto, Paul is born on Kaitain, Paul leaves Caladan not only once, but twice, in his youth - and even joins Jerk du Solei!) into their story ....and blame Frank when the fans poo poo it.

And if that is not enough, we now have Bene Jesserit super Jongleur emotion control! (I am sure that was also found in "Frank's Notes" eh Keith!?!)

I thought I had enough with Puke of Dune...oh I mean Paul of Dune and was ready to give up. But for some reason I just picked this volume up and have been left mouth agape with every turn of the page. Why do I do this to myself? Thank the gods below that I bought this book at an 80% discount. This truely is the worst McDune as of yet. At least we will get some respite when these clowns will take a year of of ruining Dune and switch focus on their Stinkhole series. :crazy:
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby Ampoliros » 04 Jan 2010 15:36

The worst part of the whorehole series will be seeing this on the cover:

By the Authors of DUNE! (kinda)
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby TheDukester » 04 Jan 2010 16:59

Agreed. Except the marketing weasels will be smart enough to make it look like:

by the authors of

DUNE

Without that, it shifts less than 2,000 copies worldwide. With the big "Dune" ... well, we'll see. I'm not convinced the world is dying to see an "original" collaboration between these two idiots.
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby Unfront » 04 Jan 2010 17:13

How much would you bet that they make the Stink-whole series an offshute of the Dune univers of some sort? i.e. the "Hellhole" planet is earth after the holocost that wipes it out in the Butt Jihad -or some other Dunified expansion story?
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby Ampoliros » 04 Jan 2010 18:29

AS much as Kevin shits himself over attaching his name to big ticket items, I think his true desire is to have one all his own. So No, Hellhole won't be in the Duniverse.

(And I forget that Kev thinks all those big names he attached too ARE his now.)

The only series he has any right to be proud of is the Tales of the Jedi. He wasn't the series creator, just the writer, but that's the only collaboration of his I've read and enjoyed.

I'm half-way convinced that Brian has started standing up to KJA (in his own took a decade way) with this Throne+3-school-books-and-thats-all stance.
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 04 Jan 2010 18:41

He thinks he's already accomplished that though with his 7Suns series, and that was him all alone.
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby DuneFishUK » 04 Jan 2010 19:06

Leaked cover art...

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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby Omphalos » 04 Jan 2010 19:51

nice!

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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby SandChigger » 05 Jan 2010 02:51

VERY nice! :lol:

Amp, are we sure Letotard of Dumb has been cancelled?

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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby trang » 05 Jan 2010 06:36

Very nice there, sad part its a reminder that there are going to be more than one of those hell hole books. :angry-screaming: :angry-cussing: :angry-cussingblack:
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby Unfront » 05 Jan 2010 11:39

Ampoliros wrote:
I'm half-way convinced that Brian has started standing up to KJA (in his own took a decade way) with this Throne+3-school-books-and-thats-all stance.


Does that mean that they have already abandoned the "Leto of Dune"" seriese extension book that they were boasting on and on about prior to the release of Puke of Dunce...ooops i meanPaul of Dune (Sorry, I get a little frazzled over that book, typing it out makes my fingers do funny things.) :puke:
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby lotek » 05 Jan 2010 11:46

trang wrote:Very nice there, sad part its a reminder that there are going to be more than one of those hell hole books. :angry-screaming: :angry-cussing: :angry-cussingblack:


the good part being that we don't give a damn if there is :)
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby Freakzilla » 05 Jan 2010 11:48

Unfront wrote:
Ampoliros wrote:
I'm half-way convinced that Brian has started standing up to KJA (in his own took a decade way) with this Throne+3-school-books-and-thats-all stance.


Does that mean that they have already abandoned the "Leto of Dune"" seriese extension book that they were boasting on and on about prior to the release of Puke of Dunce...ooops i meanPaul of Dune (Sorry, I get a little frazzled over that book, typing it out makes my fingers do funny things.) :puke:


God, let's hope so.
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby Ampoliros » 05 Jan 2010 15:35

sorry, wishful thinking. I totally forgot about Leto, or maybe I was thinking that Throne of Dune was the new title for Leto instead of Irulan of Dune.

so thats 5 books.

Hey, on the bright side we've got at least another decade worth of endless mocking of the hack.

Each book has gotten progressively worse x 5 more books. Thats if KJA doesn't pull another duology out of his ass for the "large story" that is Leto.

I do believe KJA will get his 'masterpiece to be remembered forevermore' out of Guild of Dune if it ever gets written. Somehow I doubt they will be able to get that contract.
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 05 Jan 2010 15:58

Oh they'll get the contract all right, it would just come with less and less backing over time, but there will never be a point where publishers call it quits on new Dune books. If they're willing to take chances on new authors they'll take chances on even total shite with Dune on the cover.
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Re: Jongleur.....why?

Postby Secher Nbiw » 06 Jan 2010 12:38

Jongleur is the dutch translation for Juggler.