why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

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lotek
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why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby lotek » 29 Mar 2010 06:09

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from the Dune Saga facebook group, in which I can still post apparently, even though some of my comments are deleted :)
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby Ampoliros » 29 Mar 2010 15:46

This one is easy. Frank was wrong, KJA was right.



At least that's how they see it.
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby lotek » 29 Mar 2010 15:55

:lol:
they removed my post, can't even fucking argument and chicken out...

sad but predictable
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby DuneFishUK » 29 Mar 2010 16:37

That is a bit sad. Preeqs are usually the first to complain that there's not enough Dune discussion.

One of the highlights of Paul of Dune was the hacks straining to shoe-horn Real Herbertarian thinking into their shitty story. Basically copy-pasting FH quotes into Paul and Fenring's mouths.

If only they bothered to read the words they were stealing. :roll:

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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby MrFlibble » 31 Mar 2010 08:16

lotek wrote:they removed my post, can't even fucking argument and chicken out...

Has anyone ever tried to post removed content again and again (using multiple accounts if necessary)? That should attract more attention to the entire issue, I suppose.
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby lotek » 31 Mar 2010 08:26

MrFlibble wrote:
lotek wrote:they removed my post, can't even fucking argument and chicken out...

Has anyone ever tried to post removed content again and again (using multiple accounts if necessary)? That should attract more attention to the entire issue, I suppose.



I thought about it but finally concluded it would be a waste of time...
most of these groups are peopled with retards that wouldn't know an inconsistency if it fucked them up the arse, and for the few real dune fans that get stranded there just the sheer level of stupid of these places will make them realize there is nothing to be learned from these dumbfucks :)
Plus the activity of these so called fan pages is pretty low and we wouldn't get the attention required anyway

It was fun to mock them for a while though ;)

I'd rather talk seriously and/or crap here, it's much more challenging and/or funny :D
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby MrFlibble » 31 Mar 2010 08:40

Well, my logic is that if there were multiple proof (like the screenshot you posted) that sane comments and important/serious questions are being censored out it would serve as a nice counter in KJA's face whenever he starts whining about evil "talifans" who throw baseless accusations at him simply because they are "haters".
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby lotek » 31 Mar 2010 08:50

I haven't been in contact with the hack, I'm "new" to the jihad and I lke to take my time, plus most of the time chig already did it ;)

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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby SandChigger » 31 Mar 2010 11:18

Yeah, it just wouldn't be worth the effort.
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby lotek » 31 Mar 2010 11:33

SandChigger wrote:Yeah, it just wouldn't be worth the effort.



you could have at least pretended it wasn't true :lol:
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby TheDukester » 31 Mar 2010 11:44

MrFlibble wrote:Well, my logic is that if there were multiple proof (like the screenshot you posted) that sane comments and important/serious questions are being censored out it would serve as a nice counter in KJA's face whenever he starts whining about evil "talifans" who throw baseless accusations at him simply because they are "haters".

I think this thought has hit us all, at different times, over the past few years.

But the grim reality eventually sets in: nothing is going to stop TheKJA and the HLP from seeing what they want to see. They don't want to see "important/serious" questions; they just want to protect the Dune trademark so that the annual checks from the McDune series continue to roll in ... and the big checks from the alleged movie eventually start to appear.

Any platform that the HLP can control — Facebook, blogs that don't allow comments, the DumbassNovels forums, etc. — will never allow real debate or discussion. It will never happen while the current cowards are running things. That's one reason I like to bash Keith on Twitter: he can't control it. Through the use of various Twitter functions, it's possible to spread the OH gospel and to continually bash @TheKJA. The results — in the form of Keith snidely replying while acting like he's not really replying, and in disgruntled fanboys getting all upset — are well worth the effort. I think we've even gotten a couple of borderline preek candidates to re-think their choice of material.
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby lotek » 31 Mar 2010 12:04

and if we can save but one it was worth it :)
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby MrFlibble » 31 Mar 2010 16:29

TheDukester wrote:But the grim reality eventually sets in: nothing is going to stop TheKJA and the HLP from seeing what they want to see. They don't want to see "important/serious" questions; they just want to protect the Dune trademark so that the annual checks from the McDune series continue to roll in ... and the big checks from the alleged movie eventually start to appear.

But of course they will ignore such questions, or tell people that it is someone else who is wrong and not them. It's absolutely hopeless to even try to start any sane discussion, simply because they made mistakes (and are very well aware of it) and are now desperate to cover them up.

The purpose of such posts, in my opinion, is to sow the seeds of doubt in people who, not being entirely devoid of critical thinking, for some reason did not immediately recognize the true nature of the NuDune enterprise, but are still capable to say, "Wait a minute!.." The criticisms 9and the censoring reaction to them) might spare them the reading of all the horrible stuff.

TheDukester wrote:Any platform that the HLP can control — Facebook, blogs that don't allow comments, the DumbassNovels forums, etc. — will never allow real debate or discussion. It will never happen while the current cowards are running things. That's one reason I like to bash Keith on Twitter: he can't control it. Through the use of various Twitter functions, it's possible to spread the OH gospel and to continually bash @TheKJA. The results — in the form of Keith snidely replying while acting like he's not really replying, and in disgruntled fanboys getting all upset — are well worth the effort. I think we've even gotten a couple of borderline preek candidates to re-think their choice of material.

That's what I'm talking about. It's just that maybe, if it could be possible to somehow emphasize all those acts of shutting the mouths of people who ask inconvenient questions, this would add to the picture, showing how generally not very nice the HLP and their associates are (in addition to the quality of the books per se). (Maybe what is documented here is enough, but it seemed to me that at least some people are clearly reluctant to go here and read anything).
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby SandChigger » 31 Mar 2010 21:05

I can well understand people being reluctant to come here.

I mean, after all, the place is CRAWLING with my sockpuppets! :laughing-rolling:


I think we should always remember that not every inconsistency is indeed a "mistake". There are mistakes—not that KJA will ever admit it—but a lot of things are intentional changes, conscious decisions to ignore what FH wrote, made in order to allow KJA's more "creative" version of things. "Kaitain-born Paul" is the prime example of this IMHO.

And this bullshit of putting the responsibility on that besotted Corrino bint Irulan, well... What exactly does it say when an author won't stand up and admit "I made a decision to change this thing" and instead blames a character in the story?

It says to me that the author has NO BALLS. And that maybe he fears the number of people who would be offended by such a direct statement of FACT is larger than he lets on.
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby Omphalos » 01 Apr 2010 00:08

I can well understand people being reluctant to come here.

I mean, after all, the place is CRAWLING with my sockpuppets! :laughing-rolling:





EDIT: Oops! Sorry. I just remembered that I wrote this earlier. - SC.

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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby SandChigger » 01 Apr 2010 02:10

:laughing-rolling:

I kill me sometimes!
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby Ampoliros » 01 Apr 2010 09:30

SandChigger wrote:And this bullshit of putting the responsibility on that besotted Corrino bint Irulan, well... What exactly does it say when an author won't stand up and admit "I made a decision to change this thing" and instead blames a character in the story?

It says to me that the author has NO BALLS. And that maybe he fears the number of people who would be offended by such a direct statement of FACT is larger than he lets on.


I'd argue that what KJA does is worse. If an author decides to change something, and explain it in text is one thing. To get things blatantly wrong, and then retcon your mistake with duct tape because you didn't read the original text or study the work enough to understand the original author's motivations is something completely different.

KJA doesn't care about the original work, just its name... sorry... franchise.
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 01 Apr 2010 12:15

Ampoliros wrote:
SandChigger wrote:And this bullshit of putting the responsibility on that besotted Corrino bint Irulan, well... What exactly does it say when an author won't stand up and admit "I made a decision to change this thing" and instead blames a character in the story?

It says to me that the author has NO BALLS. And that maybe he fears the number of people who would be offended by such a direct statement of FACT is larger than he lets on.


I'd argue that what KJA does is worse. If an author decides to change something, and explain it in text is one thing. To get things blatantly wrong, and then retcon your mistake with duct tape because you didn't read the original text or study the work enough to understand the original author's motivations is something completely different.

KJA doesn't care about the original work, just its name... sorry... franchise.


I agree, but I'm with Chig that some things, namely the place of Paul's birth, were not mistakes to be retcon'd - it was a deliberate decision that instead of just explaining they decided to retcon for some weird reason, thus making it look like it had been a fuck up.
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby Ampoliros » 01 Apr 2010 15:22

Oh, yeah Kaitain was deliberate. Its pretty fucking hard to accidentally miss the first page of the universe you are writing in. Then again, maybe he had Harriet Klausman write the "epic concordance" for them....
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby MrFlibble » 01 Apr 2010 15:26

Ampoliros wrote:I'd argue that what KJA does is worse. If an author decides to change something, and explain it in text is one thing. To get things blatantly wrong, and then retcon your mistake with duct tape because you didn't read the original text or study the work enough to understand the original author's motivations is something completely different.

KJA doesn't care about the original work, just its name... sorry... franchise.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I agree, but I'm with Chig that some things, namely the place of Paul's birth, were not mistakes to be retcon'd - it was a deliberate decision that instead of just explaining they decided to retcon for some weird reason, thus making it look like it had been a fuck up.

Well, I guess there's a fair share of both. While Paul born on Kaitain could have an been intentional retcon, it seems to me that whole story with Wanna's artificial uterus in House Corrino was just a SNAFU: KJA vaguely remembered Yueh mentioned something about having no kids in Dune, and he "creatively expanded" upon this without bothering to check. The belated "explanation" in Winds is so obviously made-up, I doubt it could have been intentional (unless the intent was to make a total nincompoop of oneself :P ).
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby lotek » 01 Apr 2010 15:41

MrFlibble wrote: it seems to me that whole story with Wanna's artificial uterus in House Corrino


wtf?
wtf?

WTF?

WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!

this is even worse than I thought, holy mary mother of god I feel sick :puke:
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby MrFlibble » 01 Apr 2010 16:24

lotek wrote:this is even worse than I thought, holy mary mother of god I feel sick :puke:

Just don't tell me you didn't know that. If yes, sorry for exposing you to such a spoiler (in all possible senses of the word).
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby Nekhrun » 01 Apr 2010 17:36

Ampoliros wrote:Oh, yeah Kaitain was deliberate. Its pretty fucking hard to accidentally miss the first page of the universe you are writing in. Then again, maybe he had Harriet Klausman write the "epic concordance" for them....

I'm not so certain that it was deliberate. I think they knew about Irulan's intro on the first page, but I think they totally forgot about Leto telling Paul about his first time off planet. They got caught with their pants down on that one. You can't go on to say that the entire text of Dune is an in-universe document written by Irulan. They fucked up big.
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby lotek » 01 Apr 2010 18:09

MrFlibble wrote:
lotek wrote:this is even worse than I thought, holy mary mother of god I feel sick :puke:

Just don't tell me you didn't know that. If yes, sorry for exposing you to such a spoiler (in all possible senses of the word).


I read house atreides and harkonnen but gave up for house corrino, which by the looks of it was a fucking good idea!
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Re: why Duncan Idaho's ultra KH is bullshit

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 01 Apr 2010 20:07

Nekhrun wrote:
Ampoliros wrote:Oh, yeah Kaitain was deliberate. Its pretty fucking hard to accidentally miss the first page of the universe you are writing in. Then again, maybe he had Harriet Klausman write the "epic concordance" for them....

I'm not so certain that it was deliberate. I think they knew about Irulan's intro on the first page, but I think they totally forgot about Leto telling Paul about his first time off planet. They got caught with their pants down on that one. You can't go on to say that the entire text of Dune is an in-universe document written by Irulan. They fucked up big.


Good point.
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