New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

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New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby SandChigger » 07 Apr 2010 01:40

OK, here's some new speculation that we'll have to go back through Dreamer of Dune to see if there's any support for it!

So imagine this: little Brian Herbert tells Daddy Herbert one day that he really likes sci-fi movies like The Brain That Wouldn't Die, about disembodied brains in vats and Jans-in-the-pan. Daddy Herbert, being a REAL sci-fi author, laughs scornfully at Brian (he was such a cold and remote man, after all; a terrible father!) and tells him that such nonsense has more to do with fantasy than TRUE science fiction. Little Brian runs back to hide his tears (and blow his nose) in the skirts of Mama Beverly, White Witch of the East. And while comforted by her, he never forgets.

Years later with both Mama & Daddy gone, he finds himself in a position to wreak revenge on Daddy by jamming a slew of "vat brats" into his talentless extensions of Daddy's greatest work, the Dune series. He broaches the idea with his writing partner (a younger man but one no less absorbed in himself and his "art" (snicker) than Daddy and who has taken Little Brian in hand to give him the guidance and "Shut up, Brian!" tough love he needs and wants so badly), half fearful that he will be scorned again ... but to his surprise and joy, Surrogate-Daddy agrees ... even says it's a brilliant idea!

Because Kevin, listening to his jack-of-all-trades-but-master-of-none gravy train explain his latest brilliant "idea", nearly wets himself trying to keep from bursting out laughing at the cruelly sweet irony that this moron is the son of the creator of the greatest cash cow he had yet been let near.

Possible? Plausible? You tell me.
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby Freakzilla » 07 Apr 2010 01:58

I think you're giving KJAckass too much credit.

You're saying KJA went along with Bozo's intentions to destroy Dune?

I don't buy it. I think KJA truly loves Dune but he's just to dumb to know what is consistent and what isn't.
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby Omphalos » 07 Apr 2010 02:31

I don't know if he loves it or not, but he sure doesn't respect it. He comes off as someone who loved it when he was younger, but now he wants to "fix" it. Pretty sure he's even said something like that. You can't love it the way a purist loves it and want to change it so much.

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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby Mr. Teg » 07 Apr 2010 03:19

Omphalos wrote:I don't know if he loves it or not, but he sure doesn't respect it. He comes off as someone who loved it when he was younger, but now he wants to "fix" it. Pretty sure he's even said something like that. You can't love it the way a purist loves it and want to change it so much.


And he's the only one professionally qualified to fix it! :roll:
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby lotek » 07 Apr 2010 03:43

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 236947907#


not a bad theory but as freak said I don't think you should give them too much credit, both have proved many times they were full of stupid
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby Mr. Teg » 07 Apr 2010 07:17

Marketing and money the LRon way.
Pinky and the Brian already knew each other via the What the Fucks or Writers of the Future.
The HLP lawyers goes after everybody with the same ferociousness as the Scientology lawyers are notorious.
I'm not saying he's a scientologist, as far as I know, but that's were they're coming from.

But I think you may be right on some level, too.

For example, if you read Sidney's Comet, does read as poking fun at his dad.
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby A Little Galach » 07 Apr 2010 08:39

My feeling on it is that KJA is probably a Dune fan, but only casually. He seems to treat Dune as if FH was a doddering, scenile old man that didn't know what was best. KJA is simply doing what's best as the steward of the brand. It would have been much better the first time if he had come up with the idea. I mean anyone can dream up a stupid universe, making cliches work in them, and making BH feel as if he's contributing, is the hard part.

In my opinion BH has a bit of daddy-penis-author envy thing going on, where he needs to make "his" versions bigger than the original in order to be relevant. Kind of like a sequel being bigger with more explosions than the original...but ultimately worse. In this manner I think you're right about the Titans.

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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby Bijaz » 07 Apr 2010 08:54

Which brings us back full circle to Omphalos theory the electrodes for the lie detector were used to administer electrical shocks to Brian's penis whenever they caught Brian playing with himself.
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby lotek » 07 Apr 2010 08:56

you're sure you're not a sockpuppet?

A Little Galach wrote:In my opinion BH has a bit of daddy-penis-author envy thing going on, where he needs to make "his" versions bigger than the original in order to be relevant. Kind of like a sequel being bigger with more explosions than the original...but ultimately worse. In this manner I think you're right about the Titans.

SandChigger wrote:What's most interesting about this shit is you can judge from the very first McDune book the magnitude of KJA's "literary penis envy": he not only has to "out-Dune" Frank Herbert, he has to out-Greek Aeschylus. And he's been dust for nearly twenty-five hundred years. :lol:

:lol:
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby lotek » 07 Apr 2010 09:00

Bijaz wrote:Which brings us back full circle to Omphalos theory the electrodes for the lie detector were used to administer electrical shocks to Brian's penis whenever they caught Brian playing with himself.



I thought we were not talking of penises anymore(or at least posting pictures of them, someone knows what I'm talking about lol)
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby Omphalos » 07 Apr 2010 12:52

A Little Galach wrote:My feeling on it is that KJA is probably a Dune fan, but only casually. He seems to treat Dune as if FH was a doddering, scenile old man that didn't know what was best. KJA is simply doing what's best as the steward of the brand. It would have been much better the first time if he had come up with the idea. I mean anyone can dream up a stupid universe, making cliches work in them, and making BH feel as if he's contributing, is the hard part.

In my opinion BH has a bit of daddy-penis-author envy thing going on, where he needs to make "his" versions bigger than the original in order to be relevant. Kind of like a sequel being bigger with more explosions than the original...but ultimately worse. In this manner I think you're right about the Titans.


I still think that Anderson just fooled himself. He read the pulp-era inspiration in Dune (unstoppable monsters, evil emperors, ray guns, space empires, etc) and thought that was what it was really about. He didn't realize that FH was trying to say something new.

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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby TheDukester » 07 Apr 2010 14:13

I keep it simple: I think TheKJA is completely full of shit.

Sure, he's read Dune ... the same way I read it when I was 13. Which is to say: looking for action scenes and other kewl SF stuff. Beyond that, he's utterly hopeless. The only person who understands less about the politics, intrigue, and themes of Dune is Brian Herbert.

Keith "respects" Dune in a grudging sort of way, since it did win awards and is considered a classic. But it's like homework for him. He needs to be somewhat well-versed in the Dune universe to be able to have any credibility as an SF author.

But his "biggest Dune fan in the world" is total horseshit, as is the occasional "Frank Herbert was a genius" that he throws out in interviews. It all comes across as shallow, hollow, superficial, and meaningless. He's just moving his lips.
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 07 Apr 2010 14:28

I agree completely. I think he probably really enjoyed the first book, because it is set up in a way that it can be read without thinking about any of the depth, just as a piece of entertainment rather than a piece of art. I think GP hit the nail on the head a long time ago though, when he said that KJA most likely actually resents the Dune series for it's "unnecessary" depth - I don't think it's just that he is incapable of adding depth to his writing, I think he actually veiws it as a weakness that FH had. He thinks FH was a snob who was writing for snobs, and anyone who wnts more than a simple adventure/mystery/sense of wonder out of a book is a snob themselves.

It probably wouldn't even occur to him that his ending to Sandworms with Norma acting as a god-saviour completely contradicts the philosophy of the entire Dune series, because he never read the books deeply enough to understand that there even was a philosophy of anti-hero. And, on the off chance that he did realize that (most likely afterwards when we pointed it out to him) it would seem to him that this was the smallest of transgressions on his part, because to him the philosophy is the least important part of a book, and as such he has done no significant wrong.
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby A Little Galach » 07 Apr 2010 15:22

I can concur with those theories, as long as they include some sort of phallic-intelligence inadequacy for BH.

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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby SandChigger » 07 Apr 2010 18:30

:lol: I do like you already. :D

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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby Mr. Teg » 07 Apr 2010 21:43

lotek wrote:
Bijaz wrote:Which brings us back full circle to Omphalos theory the electrodes for the lie detector were used to administer electrical shocks to Brian's penis whenever they caught Brian playing with himself.



I thought we were not talking of penises anymore(or at least posting pictures of them, someone knows what I'm talking about lol)


:?:
By definition, we are talking about penises anytime we discuss BH, HLP or KJA.
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby Nekhrun » 07 Apr 2010 21:47

Mr. Teg wrote:
lotek wrote:
Bijaz wrote:Which brings us back full circle to Omphalos theory the electrodes for the lie detector were used to administer electrical shocks to Brian's penis whenever they caught Brian playing with himself.



I thought we were not talking of penises anymore(or at least posting pictures of them, someone knows what I'm talking about lol)


:?:
By definition, we are talking about penises anytime we discuss BH, HLP or KJA.

Or the lack of.
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby SandChigger » 07 Apr 2010 23:16

BA DOOOooooooh... :?
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby Jabecca » 08 Apr 2010 06:29

The family jewels are mine now! :twisted:
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby lotek » 08 Apr 2010 06:42

I knew this talk would draw you out ultimately
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby Jabecca » 08 Apr 2010 09:19

lotek wrote:I knew this talk would draw you out ultimately


Of course, you know me so well :romance-lips:
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby lotek » 08 Apr 2010 10:02

don't mind if I do!

here have a bacon bouquet!
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that should go nicely with the bacon vodka :)
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby Jabecca » 08 Apr 2010 10:43

lotek wrote:don't mind if I do!

here have a bacon bouquet!
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that should go nicely with the bacon vodka :)


Hot damn! You truly are into making bacon! :romance-hearteyes:
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby lotek » 08 Apr 2010 10:48

what can I say. i like it crispy!

edit
btw that pic comes from your link http://thisiswhyyourefat.com/ ;)
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Re: New Theory on the (Meta-)Origin of the "Titans"

Postby Freakzilla » 08 Apr 2010 11:04

lotek wrote:what can I say. i like it crispy!

edit
btw that pic comes from your link http://thisiswhyyourefat.com/ ;)


Bookmarked for recipe ideas

Gonna have to try this:

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Country Breakfast Wrap

Scrambled eggs, pork sausage, potatoes and American cheese rolled inside a buttermilk pancake topped with maple syrup.

:D
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