House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

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House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby Mr. Teg » 08 May 2010 21:01

There was a review of House Atreides posted over at dumbnovels.

Ole Dune Pussy commented that he felt the review was a balanced review.

Personally, I take issue with this because his comment whitewashes the real issue.

It's not a matter of taste.
Other words, some people like the books or hate 'em. As he would have you believe, it's about the truth, at least for me. If it was simply a matter of tastes I would have moved on a long time ago. However, the issue for me, that comes out from the various differences in style and details, is the notes.

I feel use of the notes was simply a marketing gimmick.
They lied.

I brought this up in the past to Ole Dune Pussy explaining that many of us were supportive of the new books on some level in the beginning but that changed over time when it became obviously something was up.

He responded he didn't believe what I wrote and basically said we were haters from the beginning...

So, I don't think the review was balanced.
I understand why you could say it was "balanced" compared to other reviews.
But, it benefits the HLP to make such statements because it whitewashes the issues to make the whole confrontation sound like a matter of tastes, which it clearly isn't.

This is why I still help man the battlements on this forum.

How about you?
Last edited by Mr. Teg on 09 May 2010 04:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby Nekhrun » 08 May 2010 21:38

I hate that bullshit he spouts about reviews or opinions being "fair". Who the fuck is he to say what's fair when dealing with someone's analysis or opinion? I say McDune sucks ass. I think that's a fair assessment because of how shitty they are. I have lots of proof to back it up (re: various inconsistency threads). Anyone trying to say these books have any redeeming qualities are suck-ups and hangers-on. For whatever reason they get off on cybersucking their hack god or anyone associated with him.
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby TheDukester » 08 May 2010 22:11

Mr. Teg wrote:How about you?

Well, clearly you are just a "hater." Onasander told me so.

(Then SandRider set him on fire ...)
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby SandChigger » 08 May 2010 22:33

Byron Merritt doesn't get to decide what's "fair" or "balanced" because he has a financial stake in the success or failure of the shit his uncle may be helping to squeeze out.

He's little better than those KJA shills on Amazon. :roll:
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby SandRider » 09 May 2010 01:30

I'm with you on the Notes thing; as I've stated before, I picked up the first prequel, read a few pages,
saw this was intended for children and just some legacy-milking, and let it go at that ... never gave
any of it a second thought --- then I finally got around to picking up Keith's Dune7, simply because of
the claim on the cover that it was the "ending" Frank intended to write .... about 20 pages in, this
became an obvious lie, and I turned to the internet for an explanation - ran into Merritt, the HLP and Freak....
the rest is OH Jihad History ....

btw, having not read the prequels, I was unaware of just how bad a writer Keith was ... but, without the
claim of "Frank's Own Notes", and the subsequent assholery from the Trinity of Gall, I really, honestly could've
let the whole thing slide .. yeah, they're milking some money outta Dune and writing YA fanfiction; whatever ...
but this ridiculous lie and the stubborn adherence to it was too much; plus, Keith's attitude and opinion of
himself and his "works" just begs for a good ol' fashioned Shitheel Schoolin' ....

also, the bannings from the Corporate Dune Forum put my Free Speech hackles up ...

somewhere along the way, it became personal .... and entertaining, which is the important thing ....
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby lotek » 09 May 2010 05:06

I didn't care much about him or his deserted pile of wank of a forum...
and then I posted there, couldn't see why I would not be able to use the "official" channel to voice an "official" complaint.

Then the censorship began, as I tried to fall back on facebook to voice my frustration at encountering such blatantly obvious biased position(then got censored too but I still had my fun )

I then forgot about dungnovels until Byron posted his link to the infamous LA Times article
And accused me of having an agenda that made me nitpick sentences out of context blablabla

I took my revenge since my sarcastic but polite response will greet anyone that follow that twat's link to the article(we debated that at length anyway)
But I was quite pleased with myself though :)

That was what had me banned from DN and to hell with it!

So him doing that again is not surprising, and I take solace in the fact that I am pretty sure he believes nudune are shit but man he can't kill "The Goose that Laid the Golden Egg(s)" can he now?

So I reckon this explains the lack of feist in defending the hack and bobo, like I don't mind cashing in but please don't ask me to say I like it!
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby Bijaz » 10 May 2010 06:59

SandRider wrote: it became personal .... and entertaining, which is the important thing ....


Aye, Frank's Scottish saboteur Mckie said as much.
Byron is an embarrassment to the kilt.
Bugger him.
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby Hunchback Jack » 10 May 2010 15:38

Mr. Teg wrote:... many of us were supportive of the new books on some level in the beginning but that changed over time when it became obviously something was up.


Yeah, personally, the fact that the books - particularly the House and Dune 7 books - were supposedly based on FH's notes gave them more legitimacy in my mind, before I'd read them. Even after reading (or, more accurately, not reading) the atrocious Legends books, I was still hopeful that the "outline" would save Dune 7 from the same fate. They definitely used the "notes" as an attempt to get instant creditibility with existing Dune fans.

But I should also say that it's not just this deception that's the issue - it's the laziness and ham-fisted way the authors are writing thee "official" Dune books, and the fucktard attitude we get from the authors and the HLP when we try to say anything about it.

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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby chanilover » 11 May 2010 11:21

Are they still claiming their turds are based on Frank's notes? I don't know why they bother, their attempts at Dune 7 were so far removed from Chapter House that Combover and Jellybrain had to "write" three books of Legends drivel so people knew who Miss Erasmus and her nutter psychobrain boyfriend were. Didn't one of them say they'd made up those characters?
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby Freakzilla » 11 May 2010 12:02

chanilover wrote:Are they still claiming their turds are based on Frank's notes? I don't know why they bother, their attempts at Dune 7 were so far removed from Chapter House that Combover and Jellybrain had to "write" three books of Legends drivel so people knew who Miss Erasmus and her nutter psychobrain boyfriend were. Didn't one of them say they'd made up those characters?


Yeah...

Herbert continued, "I usually write the first draft of the Erasmus character. Kevin came up with a character -- a Thinking Machine who was researching what it was like to be human -- and I said let's add (the Nazi medical researcher) Dr Mengele to him and make him really dark and strange. Then Kevin laughed and said, 'Boy Brian, I don't know if I can write that, you'd better do it!' He wasn't saying that couldn't write it -- it was just a little dig that only my twisted mind could write that character. So we have a lot of fun. We riff off each other, like a musical performance."

http://www.sfsite.com/07a/sabh203.htm
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby TheDukester » 11 May 2010 12:41

That interview is great. They both come out looking like creepy, possibly psychotic, social retards.
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby merkin muffley » 11 May 2010 13:16

"I said let's add (the Nazi medical researcher) Dr Mengele to him and make him really dark and strange. ...we have a lot of fun. We riff off each other, like a musical performance."
"Tee hee hee! It's like we finish each other's-"
"Sandwiches!"
"Let's add a dash of Mengele!"
"High five!"


For godsakes. That does sound like the writing process that would produce those stupid-ass books.
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 11 May 2010 14:01

Freakzilla wrote:
chanilover wrote:Are they still claiming their turds are based on Frank's notes? I don't know why they bother, their attempts at Dune 7 were so far removed from Chapter House that Combover and Jellybrain had to "write" three books of Legends drivel so people knew who Miss Erasmus and her nutter psychobrain boyfriend were. Didn't one of them say they'd made up those characters?


Yeah...

Herbert continued, "I usually write the first draft of the Erasmus character. Kevin came up with a character -- a Thinking Machine who was researching what it was like to be human -- and I said let's add (the Nazi medical researcher) Dr Mengele to him and make him really dark and strange. Then Kevin laughed and said, 'Boy Brian, I don't know if I can write that, you'd better do it!' He wasn't saying that couldn't write it -- it was just a little dig that only my twisted mind could write that character. So we have a lot of fun. We riff off each other, like a musical performance."

http://www.sfsite.com/07a/sabh203.htm


Just to play devils advocate on that one, they could say that FH left notes saying that they were 2 machines from the Jihad, but he and Kevin had to create their actual characters/peronalities because FH didn't give them anything on that front.
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby Freakzilla » 11 May 2010 14:03

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
chanilover wrote:Are they still claiming their turds are based on Frank's notes? I don't know why they bother, their attempts at Dune 7 were so far removed from Chapter House that Combover and Jellybrain had to "write" three books of Legends drivel so people knew who Miss Erasmus and her nutter psychobrain boyfriend were. Didn't one of them say they'd made up those characters?


Yeah...

Herbert continued, "I usually write the first draft of the Erasmus character. Kevin came up with a character -- a Thinking Machine who was researching what it was like to be human -- and I said let's add (the Nazi medical researcher) Dr Mengele to him and make him really dark and strange. Then Kevin laughed and said, 'Boy Brian, I don't know if I can write that, you'd better do it!' He wasn't saying that couldn't write it -- it was just a little dig that only my twisted mind could write that character. So we have a lot of fun. We riff off each other, like a musical performance."

http://www.sfsite.com/07a/sabh203.htm


Just to play devils advocate on that one, they could say that FH left notes saying that they were 2 machines from the Jihad, but he and Kevin had to create their actual characters/peronalities because FH didn't give them anything on that front.


But I asked KJA directly at a panel durring Dragon*Con if FH left in his notes or outline that M&D were robots from the BJ and he said no.

So...

:P
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 11 May 2010 14:31

Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
chanilover wrote:Are they still claiming their turds are based on Frank's notes? I don't know why they bother, their attempts at Dune 7 were so far removed from Chapter House that Combover and Jellybrain had to "write" three books of Legends drivel so people knew who Miss Erasmus and her nutter psychobrain boyfriend were. Didn't one of them say they'd made up those characters?


Yeah...

Herbert continued, "I usually write the first draft of the Erasmus character. Kevin came up with a character -- a Thinking Machine who was researching what it was like to be human -- and I said let's add (the Nazi medical researcher) Dr Mengele to him and make him really dark and strange. Then Kevin laughed and said, 'Boy Brian, I don't know if I can write that, you'd better do it!' He wasn't saying that couldn't write it -- it was just a little dig that only my twisted mind could write that character. So we have a lot of fun. We riff off each other, like a musical performance."

http://www.sfsite.com/07a/sabh203.htm


Just to play devils advocate on that one, they could say that FH left notes saying that they were 2 machines from the Jihad, but he and Kevin had to create their actual characters/peronalities because FH didn't give them anything on that front.


But I asked KJA directly at a panel durring Dragon*Con if FH left in his notes or outline that M&D were robots from the BJ and he said no.

So...

:P


Alright, that sums that up then.
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby Hunchback Jack » 18 May 2010 15:39

Another discussion on the same topic:

viewtopic.php?p=13817#p13817

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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby lotek » 18 May 2010 15:50

thanks for digging this one out!

Hunchback Jack wrote:Okay, last quote. There's more I can put in, but these are by far the best bits, and it's so damn long.

Anyhoo, this quote speaks for itself.

SB: When I read Chapter House 20 years ago, and especially when I read Hunters, I was reminded that your parents were a team, they were a partnership and they'd fashioned this universe together. And on the page you have an elderly couple, and they're seemingly omnipotent at times, they're watching over this universe from a remote vantage point. I couldn't help thinking of your parents doing the same thing - watching events in the Dune universe unfold.

BH: Well, I'll just add one more element to that, that they both loved to work in the garden. And I guess you could say that their stories were ... were the plants and flowers that they were nurturing, but ... I think that my Dad, when he created characters, he always took elements of various people and put them into it. But, that ... that could have been part of it, but I would say that would be a subconscious element to it. That's an interesting observation, I like that.

BH jokes with KJA about stealing the idea from SB. SB laughs.

KJA: I hadn't noticed that myself. I kind of had a chill when Scott just mentioned it, I thought, "Oh, that's so obvious, how come I didn't see that before?"


That's it guys. Enjoy.

HBJ


i certainly did(right after I put my jaw back into position when it suddenly dropped to the floor...)
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby DuneFishUK » 19 May 2010 13:49

Have we got a full transcript of that interview anywhere? I've got an mp3, but it's ~ 20 minutes long.

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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby merkin muffley » 19 May 2010 15:36

He doesn't show it. And Brian and I, our writing style is kind of a more ... we want to show you things and do it onstage instead of offstage, and so, whereas Frank Herbert, if he had been around to write Dune 7, which, frankly, Brian and I would rather he had stayed around to write it so that we could read it like new fans instead of writing it. But he would have left a lot of the details in the background, and up to his readers to put together. And ... we kind of like to show everything instead.



What a world-class twat. He's got a lotta balls claiming that he "shows" more with his writing than Frank Herbert does. He has no idea what "show, don't tell" is. What he means by "show," is that everything is surface action and explosions, and his characters never do anything psychologically interesting. And he's even bad at doing surface action and explosions, everything is mechanical and obligatory, and you can't wait for it to be over.

They couldn't have picked a worse person to write Dune books. I realize that this is hardly a revelation, but he confirms it every time he opens his mouth. And he's so arrogant about it. This idiot thinks he's like Dickens, I hope he gets gonorrhea of the eye.
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby TheDukester » 19 May 2010 15:46

Preach it, brother!

Pauline of Dune being the best example I can think of. Frank Herbert thinks, "This period can easily be summed-up off-stage; I trust my readers to fill in some blanks." Anderhack and Bobo think, "We must list every ... single ... thing ... that happens. And we have to spell it all out, right there on stage. Our readers are idiots."

And, yes, TheHack's arrogance is breath-taking, isn't it? He loves to put himself into the same sentence as Frank Herbert, like they are some sort of peers or something. As if he'd even ever be mentioned with Frank Herbert if FH's idiot son happened opened up that door.

(The arrogance also masks a very deep-rooted set of insecurities, but that's a discussion for another day ...)
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby Hunchback Jack » 19 May 2010 18:57

DuneFishUK wrote:Have we got a full transcript of that interview anywhere? I've got an mp3, but it's ~ 20 minutes long.


Sadly not. I transcribed edited highlights precisely *because* it's 20 minutes long. I haven't found a transcription online anywhere, either.

If I had a speech-to-text dictation program, I'd do a pass through that and correct it. But I don't :(


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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby Freakzilla » 19 May 2010 19:10

I bet KJA has one. :wink:
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby DuneFishUK » 19 May 2010 19:14

Dammit Freak - ninja posting (... in the future? :think: ) ruined my joke :P

Hunchback Jack wrote:
DuneFishUK wrote:Have we got a full transcript of that interview anywhere? I've got an mp3, but it's ~ 20 minutes long.


Sadly not. I transcribed edited highlights precisely *because* it's 20 minutes long. I haven't found a transcription online anywhere, either.

If I had a speech-to-text dictation program, I'd do a pass through that and correct it. But I don't :(


HBJ

I thought that might be the case.

Maybe start a thread and divvy it up? 3-4mins each or something?

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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby Hunchback Jack » 19 May 2010 19:17

Freakzilla wrote:I bet KJA has one. :wink:


:lol: Indeed.

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I'm still very proud of The Quarry but … let's face it; in the end the real best way to sign off would have been with a great big rollicking Culture novel.
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Re: House Atriedes Review and Byron de Merit

Postby Hunchback Jack » 19 May 2010 19:21

DuneFishUK wrote:Maybe start a thread and divvy it up? 3-4mins each or something?


Yeah, I'd be up for that. Mind you, 3-4 minutes is a *lot* to transcribe manually. For me, anyway.

But sure.

HBJ

Edited to add: damn, double-posted again. Gotta remember to hit "edit" rather than "reply".
"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
- Carl Sagan

I'm still very proud of The Quarry but … let's face it; in the end the real best way to sign off would have been with a great big rollicking Culture novel.
- Iain Banks