Dune Novels

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A Thing of Eternity
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Dune Novels

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 15 Apr 2008 17:31

Not sure if this is the right location for this post, but here I go anyways.
I was just checking out the Dune Novels Forums (Iused to read through there all the time) and man am I glad I'm here not there. I read the rules section, and while I understand their veiwpoint, how can there be a discussion forum about two completly conficting series of novels without some negative comments?
I also read a post where some of this place's members tried very hard to explain that the human empire/scattering is WAY over 15000 LY across, therefor it is impossible for Omniass to have rode a radio wave at the speed of light for 15000 years and somehow end up far beyond that distance. No matter how clearly it was stated, the people who were fans of the new books just didn't even grasp the concept. Makes sense I guess for people who can enjoy books where the ships have FTL warpdrives (pre foldspace ships) but somehow the people inside are subject to accelleration Gee force (this is completely against all real and speculative laws of physics).
Forget KJA and BH conflicting with the originals, they conflict with the scifi genre in general, to say nothing of conflicting with reality.
Man, I'm this worked up just having spent five minutes glancing at those forums, I'd be having a stroke if I was a posting member there!
At least there is a place like this where my health is safe.
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Postby Freakzilla » 15 Apr 2008 17:34

That's what we're here for! :)
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Postby SandChigger » 15 Apr 2008 18:33

I have recently been finding it fun to take a peek every few days.

I mean, if you're ever feeling worried about your own mental state or down about your own intellectual abilities, reading some of the postings of the more inane and just downright stupid inmates over there will pick you right up! :lol:
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Re: Dune Novels

Postby orald » 15 Apr 2008 18:46

A Thing of Eternity wrote:Makes sense I guess for people who can enjoy books where the ships have FTL warpdrives (pre foldspace ships) but somehow the people inside are subject to accelleration Gee force (this is completely against all real and speculative laws of physics).

You mean while using said FTL drive they experience those accellerations, not just when in "normal space" using manuvering thrusters or STL?

I haven't read any of the pre's in a long time so IDK if the first is ever present, but I remember them using STL engines whenever near planets/fighting(like something about "oh puny humans can't do shit to superior machine operated ships that can accellerate so fast that the gee forces would crush the humans" in the start of TBJ).
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 15 Apr 2008 18:51

They described the gee forces being present through the entire trip between worlds, thus, whilst the FTL was engaged. They never mention what kind of drives these are as far as I remember, but if it's FTL and it isn't hyperspace/wormhole/foldspace then it has to be warpdrive(Alcubierre Drive if we want to be scientific). That really bugged me when I was reading those books (I read the Jihad series but not the Houses series)
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Postby orald » 15 Apr 2008 18:51

SandChigger wrote:I have recently been finding it fun to take a peek every few days.

IDK, for me dumb people raise the BP.
Like when I see clueless leftist propoganda broadcasted as the supreme truth over our TV channels and news sites.

It's like watching Al-Jazeera 24/7. :|
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 15 Apr 2008 18:53

I'd take Al-Jazeera over FOX for accurcy. Luckily, I'm in Canada, land of the slightly less insane than everyone else (politically speaking).
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Postby orald » 15 Apr 2008 18:57

I remembered them actually just using normal drives and accellerating for a long time for suchinter-planetary travels(though I know it'd still take years and decades even if they achieve lightspeed, not mere months or weeks as I think was described). Frankly, I don't remember them mentioning FTL, hyperspace/wormhole/foldspace /warpdrive/whatever before they "introduce" the Holtzman drive.
I'm not sure what they actually used.

Maybe I need a reread. *snicker*
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Postby orald » 15 Apr 2008 18:58

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I'd take Al-Jazeera over FOX for accurcy.

*Snicker*

I'd take Hitler for accuracy over Al-Jazeera...or just make it a tie.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 15 Apr 2008 19:13

orald wrote:I remembered them actually just using normal drives and accellerating for a long time for suchinter-planetary travels(though I know it'd still take years and decades even if they achieve lightspeed, not mere months or weeks as I think was described). Frankly, I don't remember them mentioning FTL, hyperspace/wormhole/foldspace /warpdrive/whatever before they "introduce" the Holtzman drive.
I'm not sure what they actually used.

Maybe I need a reread. *snicker*


That's my whole point. They never even bring it up, yet somehow it's a two week journy. It's either magic or FTL, and if it's FTL the physics don't add up.
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Postby GamePlayer » 15 Apr 2008 19:43

Just to play devils advocate, there are few people who even understand (I mean, really understand) what a light year is. So for those completely ignoring the contradiction in those lame prequel books, I can certainly understand most simply getting that glazed look in their eyes whenever you start using real scientific concepts correctly. Hell, I have a hard enough time explaining to the every day person the difference between galaxy and universe :)

Despite how far we've traveled and how much we've learned about the universe around us, the vast majority of people still could care less what goes on outside our own planet and think even less of it. Planet bound people breed planet bound thoughts, for the most part :)

Digressing, yeah DN sucks. But it's an official site, so it's expected to suck, like all official websites. Official sites are just product extensions and not any place for real, honest discussion. The fan sites have ALWAYS been where it's at.

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Postby orald » 15 Apr 2008 20:09

GamePlayer wrote:Despite how far we've traveled and how much we've learned about the universe around us, the vast majority of people still could care less what goes on outside our own planet and think even less of it. Planet bound people breed planet bound thoughts, for the most part :)

Lol, "planet-bound"? More likely "neighborhood-bound" or "apartment-bound" at best. :lol:
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Postby GamePlayer » 15 Apr 2008 21:21

Our bubbles are nowhere near that bad. Still, city or province/state is bad enough.

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Postby orald » 15 Apr 2008 21:50

City? Lol, I don't even care about my floor of the building. :lol:
In fact, I've been living my whole life near some of these neighboors and I don't know their names, or care to know.

I do know the names of 90% of the dogs in my neighborhood though. :D
*doggy! wheeeeeeeee*
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Postby Tyrant » 16 Apr 2008 04:24

i dont even go to the main site anymore..i did once a week ago..and i was like "wow...how the fuck did i stand this place" ....and thats just from the background theme
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Postby The Sons of Idaho » 16 Apr 2008 08:29

I'm pretty sure in they were limited to slower-than-light travel, unless i'm remembering wrong. Their tech had advanced to the point which allowed close to light speed, but they were still limited by this.

I'm pretty sure that this was the reason for dangerous g-forces being mentioned so much. Say what you want about KJA, but any sci-fi writer, even him, would not overlook something like this.

Now the math involved in travel times... this probably doesn't add up.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:It's either magic or FTL, and if it's FTL the physics don't add up.

I gotta go with magic in this case. Its more likely that the he ignored the travel time restrictions than forgetting that he put g-forces in his story because it was STL.
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Postby Nekhrun » 16 Apr 2008 08:57

Tyrant wrote:i dont even go to the main site anymore..i did once a week ago..and i was like "wow...how the fuck did i stand this place" ....and thats just from the background theme

I've actually gone back fairly regularly over the last couple weeks. If only to gaze in wonder at the complete lack of logical thought by some of the preeks. I have a feeling that even Simon will start to come around pretty soon. :twisted:

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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 16 Apr 2008 12:55

GamePlayer wrote:Just to play devils advocate, there are few people who even understand (I mean, really understand) what a light year is. So for those completely ignoring the contradiction in those lame prequel books, I can certainly understand most simply getting that glazed look in their eyes whenever you start using real scientific concepts correctly. Hell, I have a hard enough time explaining to the every day person the difference between galaxy and universe :)

Despite how far we've traveled and how much we've learned about the universe around us, the vast majority of people still could care less what goes on outside our own planet and think even less of it. Planet bound people breed planet bound thoughts, for the most part :)

Digressing, yeah DN sucks. But it's an official site, so it's expected to suck, like all official websites. Official sites are just product extensions and not any place for real, honest discussion. The fan sites have ALWAYS been where it's at.


I guess that's true, I did have to explain to one of my friends once that stars are infact "suns" just like our, some even have plnets. He had a hard time with that, think he just tuned me out in the end.
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Postby Tleilax Master B » 16 Apr 2008 13:18

Today has been quite day at dune novels BBs. I've been at it with Hypatia and arnie. Byron decided that the "prequelite" meant "lite" as in they are lesser dune fans. Omphalos and I had to explain to him what the suffix "-ite" means :roll: Arnie and I went at it over the events of 'Keen, which Byron then deleted and pronounced no more "intra-board disputes" were allowed.

Its been another thrilling day of over-moderation and gratuitous post deleting! ( :roll: )
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Postby GamePlayer » 16 Apr 2008 13:28

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I guess that's true, I did have to explain to one of my friends once that stars are infact "suns" just like our, some even have plnets. He had a hard time with that, think he just tuned me out in the end.


Sometimes I wonder what is being taught in schools. I didn't have any trouble grasping basic astronomy in school. It's not like it's calculus or shakespeare; it doesn't require a huge amount of effort to grasp. But then again, I don't know what people had against geography either. How hard is it to read a map? :)

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Postby Nekhrun » 16 Apr 2008 13:38

Yeah, it has been a little more interesting, but nothing new. Byron continues the favoritism (I thought what he did by quoting me out of context was a particularly nice move :roll: ), arnoldo is still a jackass.

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Postby orald » 16 Apr 2008 14:10

Tleilax Master B wrote:I've been at it with Hypatia and arnie.

A threesome? :shock:

GamePlayer wrote:Sometimes I wonder what is being taught in schools. I didn't have any trouble grasping basic astronomy in school. It's not like it's calculus or shakespeare; it doesn't require a huge amount of effort to grasp. But then again, I don't know what people had against geography either. How hard is it to read a map?

I'm not sure it's the schools' fault, I'm quite sure they teach all that stuff. It's the students' idiocy and disinterest that's to blame.
Most people are just plain stupid and there's nothingt to do about it(other than eugenics...hmm, that might be nice :twisted: ).
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 16 Apr 2008 15:17

This guy was about 20 and went to the same schools as I did. Looks like orald is probably right.
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Postby SandChigger » 16 Apr 2008 15:50

Come on. Half of the population is by definition below the average intelligence. An ever-increasing population means more and more stupid people all the time.

I would hope that over time we are getting smarter as a species, but I have yet to see any conclusive evidence of it.

I've mentioned this before, but I feel like FH was fairly pessimistic about the species. People 20,000+ years from now don't seem to be any better, just smarter/more cunning and with better toys. And weapons.

OK, I'm depressed. Set for another day! :D
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I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby orald » 16 Apr 2008 16:07

A Thing of Eternity wrote:Looks like orald is probably right.

Probably? You're new around these parts, so I'll forgive you this once. Next time remember: Orald is always right. 8)

Chig, I've heard several times that studies have shown the human brain volume to have actually decreased since the cave-men, but mostly during the middle-ages, probably due to malnutrition.
I can't recall if it's getting better now, but if it does, it sure seems a slow process. :wink:
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I wish I could have been with you that one last time.


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