Scott Brick interviews KJA and BH

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Postby The Sons of Idaho » 18 Jun 2008 13:57

They claim that according to the outline, Marty and Daniel did in fact have origins way back in the BJ era.
(So, they took the characters they created and had them fill the roles intended for Marty and Daniel. )

If you assume this is true, I think this is an interesting topic for discussion.
(and the only glimpse i've seen so far into what FH actually intended in the outline).

So, I'm interested to hear some speculation from all you experts.
If FH did intent Marty and Daniel to have origins in the BJ era, what could they have been? How might FH have tied these "villians" back to Dune history and connected his vast story arc?

If we assume that they can be tied back to the BJ era, and we assume that they are NOT exiled thinking machines, what then could they be? Is it possible to tie New Face Dancers back to the BJ?
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 18 Jun 2008 14:07

The Sons of Idaho wrote:They claim that according to the outline, Marty and Daniel did in fact have origins way back in the BJ era.
(So, they took the characters they created and had them fill the roles intended for Marty and Daniel. )

If you assume this is true, I think this is an interesting topic for discussion.
(and the only glimpse i've seen so far into what FH actually intended in the outline).

So, I'm interested to hear some speculation from all you experts.
If FH did intent Marty and Daniel to have origins in the BJ era, what could they have been? How might FH have tied these "villians" back to Dune history and connected his vast story arc?

If we assume that they can be tied back to the BJ era, and we assume that they are NOT exiled thinking machines, what then could they be? Is it possible to tie New Face Dancers back to the BJ?


I'd have to say it'd be waaay more likely that FH's notes were saying that Marty and Daniel were using illegal tech, and he was drawing parrallels with the BJ... saying that the problem had roots in those times, not the characters, then Pinky and the Brian missinterpreted that, and thus we got what we got.

I realize that doesn't actually answer your question, but I don't think that I can answer it.
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Postby Freakzilla » 18 Jun 2008 14:39

Before it gets deleted...

boardadmin wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Censoring KJA & BH's own words now, huh? :roll:


There just simply needs to be some positives and not this OHer ever-present negativity bleeding onto all the threads. It's time to stop that.


My post wasn't negative, I simply asked which interview is correct. That may imply that one interview isn't truthfull, but that is the fault of the authors who gave the interview, not mine. I'm not the one that included the interview on the audiobook.

I bought these books because they claimed they were based on FH's "complete and full" outline, now they claim it was just "clues".

How do you spin that into a possitive?

As paying customers I think we deserve an explaination.

Or how about the money back for the hardcover prequels I bought?
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Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 18 Jun 2008 14:49

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
The Sons of Idaho wrote:They claim that according to the outline, Marty and Daniel did in fact have origins way back in the BJ era.
(So, they took the characters they created and had them fill the roles intended for Marty and Daniel. )

If you assume this is true, I think this is an interesting topic for discussion.
(and the only glimpse i've seen so far into what FH actually intended in the outline).

So, I'm interested to hear some speculation from all you experts.
If FH did intent Marty and Daniel to have origins in the BJ era, what could they have been? How might FH have tied these "villians" back to Dune history and connected his vast story arc?

If we assume that they can be tied back to the BJ era, and we assume that they are NOT exiled thinking machines, what then could they be? Is it possible to tie New Face Dancers back to the BJ?


I'd have to say it'd be waaay more likely that FH's notes were saying that Marty and Daniel were using illegal tech, and he was drawing parrallels with the BJ... saying that the problem had roots in those times, not the characters, then Pinky and the Brian missinterpreted that, and thus we got what we got.

I realize that doesn't actually answer your question, but I don't think that I can answer it.


For me, they could be simple new fance dancers with some Other Memories. And one Ego-memory of a character from the BJ time could had possessed these two FD.

They could have developed these other memories from drawing the characteristics from the people they shift. Like the new face dancers shown in the HoD.
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Postby Freakzilla » 18 Jun 2008 14:52

Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:
The Sons of Idaho wrote:They claim that according to the outline, Marty and Daniel did in fact have origins way back in the BJ era.
(So, they took the characters they created and had them fill the roles intended for Marty and Daniel. )

If you assume this is true, I think this is an interesting topic for discussion.
(and the only glimpse i've seen so far into what FH actually intended in the outline).

So, I'm interested to hear some speculation from all you experts.
If FH did intent Marty and Daniel to have origins in the BJ era, what could they have been? How might FH have tied these "villians" back to Dune history and connected his vast story arc?

If we assume that they can be tied back to the BJ era, and we assume that they are NOT exiled thinking machines, what then could they be? Is it possible to tie New Face Dancers back to the BJ?


I'd have to say it'd be waaay more likely that FH's notes were saying that Marty and Daniel were using illegal tech, and he was drawing parrallels with the BJ... saying that the problem had roots in those times, not the characters, then Pinky and the Brian missinterpreted that, and thus we got what we got.

I realize that doesn't actually answer your question, but I don't think that I can answer it.


For me, they could be simple new fance dancers with some Other Memories. And one Ego-memory of a character from the BJ time could had possessed these two FD.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

Marty and Daniel say in CH:D that they have RM personas, I assumed they come with their OM too.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 18 Jun 2008 14:52

Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:
The Sons of Idaho wrote:They claim that according to the outline, Marty and Daniel did in fact have origins way back in the BJ era.
(So, they took the characters they created and had them fill the roles intended for Marty and Daniel. )

If you assume this is true, I think this is an interesting topic for discussion.
(and the only glimpse i've seen so far into what FH actually intended in the outline).

So, I'm interested to hear some speculation from all you experts.
If FH did intent Marty and Daniel to have origins in the BJ era, what could they have been? How might FH have tied these "villians" back to Dune history and connected his vast story arc?

If we assume that they can be tied back to the BJ era, and we assume that they are NOT exiled thinking machines, what then could they be? Is it possible to tie New Face Dancers back to the BJ?


I'd have to say it'd be waaay more likely that FH's notes were saying that Marty and Daniel were using illegal tech, and he was drawing parrallels with the BJ... saying that the problem had roots in those times, not the characters, then Pinky and the Brian missinterpreted that, and thus we got what we got.

I realize that doesn't actually answer your question, but I don't think that I can answer it.


For me, they could be simple new fance dancers with some Other Memories. And one Ego-memory of a character from the BJ time could had possessed these two FD.


Could be, maybe since FD's aren't male or female, they were strong enough to access male OM, but not strong enough to resist being posessed. Hmmm.. I might be stretching it, but that seems to be about as good an idea as the killer robo war.
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Postby Freakzilla » 18 Jun 2008 15:11

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:
The Sons of Idaho wrote:They claim that according to the outline, Marty and Daniel did in fact have origins way back in the BJ era.
(So, they took the characters they created and had them fill the roles intended for Marty and Daniel. )

If you assume this is true, I think this is an interesting topic for discussion.
(and the only glimpse i've seen so far into what FH actually intended in the outline).

So, I'm interested to hear some speculation from all you experts.
If FH did intent Marty and Daniel to have origins in the BJ era, what could they have been? How might FH have tied these "villians" back to Dune history and connected his vast story arc?

If we assume that they can be tied back to the BJ era, and we assume that they are NOT exiled thinking machines, what then could they be? Is it possible to tie New Face Dancers back to the BJ?


I'd have to say it'd be waaay more likely that FH's notes were saying that Marty and Daniel were using illegal tech, and he was drawing parrallels with the BJ... saying that the problem had roots in those times, not the characters, then Pinky and the Brian missinterpreted that, and thus we got what we got.

I realize that doesn't actually answer your question, but I don't think that I can answer it.


For me, they could be simple new fance dancers with some Other Memories. And one Ego-memory of a character from the BJ time could had possessed these two FD.


Could be, maybe since FD's aren't male or female, they were strong enough to access male OM, but not strong enough to resist being posessed. Hmmm.. I might be stretching it, but that seems to be about as good an idea as the killer robo war.


I believe Face Dancers are either sex at will, but it doesn't matter, they are steril. I'd call them asexual or androgenous.

Who says they resisted being possessed anyway? Even Leto II only found a way to work with his demons.
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Postby Freakzilla » 18 Jun 2008 15:59

boardadmin wrote:I don't sympathize with you at all, Freak, nor those that continue to buy books they say are "inferior" or "just bad." I might have after one or two books, but after 8? Forget it.


I don't think I use that argument or even tell people they're bad. I may tell them I don't like them though.

There's the argument that you were "waiting for kernel of Frank in the books" that pops up occasionally, but I find that equally unsympathetic. I found plenty of kernels, but you didn't ...or couldn't/wouldn't. I have to wonder if you would continue to buy books from any other author when you found their "writing skills wanting." I wouldn't. I would move on to better books when I discovered something I didn't like.


Julian Mays Magnificat, Diamond Mask and Jack the Bodiless come to mind.

However, I don't care about BH & KJA's writing skills, nor do I comment on them. I wouldn't have cared how bad they were written if they were consistant and didn't contain their own plot lines.

And I don't lurk about trying to somehow show those who enjoyed the books the errors of their ways/logic/whatever.

There are people I work with who read those 'Lust in the Dust' type romance novels that I find oh so putrid, but I don't run around insinuating that these readers are inferior to my literary tastes. And, yes, you do put in those accusations. The undercurrent of your dialogue speaks loud and clear.


I don't think I do that, at least I try not to. I think maybe you are reading that into my comments and pigenholing me into your OH stereotype.

Anyway, that's my take on this situation. Hope it's clearer.


I kept buying them because we were told we had to read them for the "Grand Climax" ending to make sense.

That was the point of writing all these prequels, right?

But as soon as I found that Erasmus and Omnius were in Hunters, I gave it up because BH & KJA admitted that they were their own creations and not in the notes/outline. Need me to provide a link to the interview?

But the only thing that wouldn't have made sense was the damned robots being there in the first place!

I didn't buy them because I wanted to read about BH & KJA's robotic Dr. Mengela (sp?). If I wanted to read about their ideas I'd have bought their non-Dune books. I've never read anything non-Dune by them and won't. I bought them because they are supposed to be based on FH's notes and "complete and full" outline for Dune 7.

I feel like I've been lied to in order to get me, a FH fan, to buy their books.

That's my take.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 18 Jun 2008 16:32

Hey, I just realized that Byron deleted my comment about Asimov stealing KJABH's ideas, and your (Freak) response to that post... didn't even send me a PM... he just dissapeared it. :cry:
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Postby Serkanner » 18 Jun 2008 16:35

Anything that doesn't fit into the farce that Dune has become is and will continuously be deleted by byron. He is as much part of this as the morons themselves are. byron also has financial gains to protect. To the HLP it is just about the money; too bad they wont just admit to it.
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Postby Hunchback Jack » 18 Jun 2008 16:39

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I'd have to say it'd be waaay more likely that FH's notes were saying that Marty and Daniel were using illegal tech, and he was drawing parrallels with the BJ... saying that the problem had roots in those times, not the characters, then Pinky and the Brian missinterpreted that, and thus we got what we got.


That's my take, too, assuming the BJ connection has any merit at all.

However, it's only that assertion by Kevin that leads me in that direction. Based on CH:D, Marty and Daniel seem to be NFDs with some kind of new tech, probably developed in the Scattering, which doesn't appear to require BJ-edict-defying science.

Edited to add: wow, it sounds like that forum is out of control. Posts getting deleted left and right?

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Postby orald » 18 Jun 2008 16:49

Byron, I hate you now. You've lost any benefit of a doubt you ever had, and I see all this talk about you peeping in here to spout some feeble lines about Kevin's glory and then running away to delete more well based criticism on DN each and every time is true.

I'd tell you you'll sell your mother for a dollar, but it seems you beat me to it- you're selling your grandfather for much less.
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Postby Freakzilla » 18 Jun 2008 17:30

A Thing of Eternity wrote:Hey, I just realized that Byron deleted my comment about Asimov stealing KJABH's ideas, and your (Freak) response to that post... didn't even send me a PM... he just dissapeared it. :cry:


He's never notified me of deleting a post, not that he has any obligation to, but it would be nice.
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Postby Freakzilla » 18 Jun 2008 17:34

Orald (and everyone else), please don't call other members names, OK?

It'd be nice if you could edit that to express your feelings in a more mature way.
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Postby LiquidBlue » 18 Jun 2008 17:56

A Thing of Eternity wrote:Hey, I just realized that Byron deleted my comment about Asimov stealing KJABH's ideas, and your (Freak) response to that post... didn't even send me a PM... he just dissapeared it. :cry:


Why would he delete that? What did you say? I'd think Asimov stealing an idea from KJABH would be a nod to their ideas, if anything...
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Postby Hunchback Jack » 18 Jun 2008 18:25

It seems crazy to me that any post which criticises the books should be deleted from the official forum. So long as you don't make personal attacks on the authors themselves, discussion about the books' flaws or inconsistencies should be fine.

As for the whole issue about the outline, I think that's fair game, too. BH and KJA clearly brought that up from the start to legitimize the whole enterprise to fans. If they hadn't, we would have been perfectly willing to accept the new books on their own merits, but they clearly wanted the added legitimacy that the outline gave them. To now censor any questions about the matter in the light of conflicting evidence is deplorable.

I guess the only discussion they care about are debates about the color of Erasmus's cloak, or whether Omnius could take the Terminator in a fight ...

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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 18 Jun 2008 18:52

LiquidBlue wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Hey, I just realized that Byron deleted my comment about Asimov stealing KJABH's ideas, and your (Freak) response to that post... didn't even send me a PM... he just dissapeared it. :cry:


Why would he delete that? What did you say? I'd think Asimov stealing an idea from KJABH would be a nod to their ideas, if anything...


Well, Freak said:

They were eventually overidden by the Oth law, IIRC, by R. Daneel Olivaw who reprogrammed his own positronic brain.

A robot may not harm humanity or through inaction allow humanity come to harm.

Then the robot merges his mind with a human to allow him to oversee humanity longer and not be bound by the laws.

Sound familiar?
(Emphasis mine)

I responded with something like this:

What's this guy's name? Asimov? I'm going to go tell KJABH that he stole their idea.

Then Freak said something jokingly agreeing....

Then the last two posts got dissapeared :cry:

EDIT: I assumed it was all in good fun, and rather obvious that this wasn't an original idea by KJABH... I guess that's not the case?
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Postby Freakzilla » 18 Jun 2008 19:10

A Thing of Eternity wrote:EDIT: I assumed it was all in good fun, and rather obvious that this wasn't an original idea by KJABH... I guess that's not the case?


You're kidding, right?

Asimov wrote Foundation and Earth in 1986.

I like to think of the Foundation series as "Dune Light", some go as far to say that Dune was FH's response to Asimov's Foundation (1951).
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 18 Jun 2008 19:18

Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:EDIT: I assumed it was all in good fun, and rather obvious that this wasn't an original idea by KJABH... I guess that's not the case?


You're kidding, right?

Asimov wrote Foundation and Earth in 1986.

I like to think of the Foundation series as "Dune Light", some go as far to say that Dune was FH's response to Asimov's Foundation (1951).


I'm kidding? I think you read what I said backwards. I'm saying that I thought it was obvious that KJABH used an often repeated idea. I meant that it was all in good fun making jokes about KJABH's lack of originality... I'm not to sure what your asking me about? I know when the foundation books were written relative to the Dune books. Am I missing something?
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Postby SandChigger » 18 Jun 2008 19:27

Oh...Byron deleted my posts, boo hoo. :roll:

ONE solution is to stop posting over there, no? :P
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Postby Freakzilla » 18 Jun 2008 19:30

SandChigger wrote:Oh...Byron deleted my posts, boo hoo. :roll:

ONE solution is to stop posting over there, no? :P


NEVER! Then there will be nothing but drooling psychophants.

BTW, I'm not upset that he deleted my post, he does it all the time.

I take it as a sign that I'm going in the right direction.
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Postby SandChigger » 18 Jun 2008 19:32

Associate too much with droolers and.... ;)


(I mean, look what's happened to Byron! :P )
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Postby Freakzilla » 18 Jun 2008 19:34

SandChigger wrote:Associate too much with droolers and.... ;)


(I mean, look what's happened to Byron! :P )


Yeah but he's on their side. I'm keeping the faith.
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Postby Phaedrus » 18 Jun 2008 19:56

Freakzilla wrote:
SandChigger wrote:Oh...Byron deleted my posts, boo hoo. :roll:

ONE solution is to stop posting over there, no? :P


NEVER! Then there will be nothing but drooling psychophants.

BTW, I'm not upset that he deleted my post, he does it all the time.

I take it as a sign that I'm going in the right direction.


You know you're doing good when your account gets deleted. :wink:
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Postby LiquidBlue » 18 Jun 2008 20:51

A Thing of Eternity wrote:
LiquidBlue wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Hey, I just realized that Byron deleted my comment about Asimov stealing KJABH's ideas, and your (Freak) response to that post... didn't even send me a PM... he just dissapeared it. :cry:


Why would he delete that? What did you say? I'd think Asimov stealing an idea from KJABH would be a nod to their ideas, if anything...


What's this guy's name? Asimov? I'm going to go tell KJABH that he stole their idea.

Then Freak said something jokingly agreeing....

Then the last two posts got dissapeared :cry:

EDIT: I assumed it was all in good fun, and rather obvious that this wasn't an original idea by KJABH... I guess that's not the case?


I think your post needed more exclimation marks, something more like this:

"I Can't BELIEVE that guy that made the I-Robot movie stole that idea from FH's outline of Dune 7?!?! HLP should sue!!"

(I should have noted my sarchasm better in my question...maybe I should have done this: :roll: or this?...All in good fun Orald :wink: )
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