Why the K&B books are not consistent with the originals.

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SandChigger
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Postby SandChigger » 06 Jul 2008 18:53

I think Kevin has incredible powers of self-deception and has persuaded himself that their (his?) version is the true one. After all, he maintains that there is only one inconsistency in their books that an attentive, open-minded reader cannot find an explanation for. (And being the prissy little nutless sack of shit that he is, he refuses to tell what it is.)

Brian is, mentally, permanently "out to lunch" apparently, so there's little point in trying to fathom what's going on between his ears. :roll:
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Postby TheDukester » 06 Jul 2008 21:02

SandChigger wrote:Brian is, mentally, permanently "out to lunch" apparently, so there's little point in trying to fathom what's going on between his ears.

Yeah, Brian is just a brain-dead puppet. I think it's pretty cool, though, that you almost never see KJA's lips move when Brian actually "speaks." That takes a lot of practice.
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Postby waff » 06 Jul 2008 21:03

SandChigger wrote:I think Kevin has incredible powers of self-deception and has persuaded himself that their (his?) version is the true one. After all, he maintains that there is only one inconsistency in their books that an attentive, open-minded reader cannot find an explanation for. (And being the prissy little nutless sack of shit that he is, he refuses to tell what it is.)


Perhaps it is that their novels take place in a crappy parallel universe in which the Terminator, Matrix, and a dozen other clichéd sci fi flicks got together and spawned such original creations as an evil robot who wants to figure out humanity while wearing such lovely silk robes, or a power-hungry cyborg who sticks his brain in a heap big battle 'bot to fight hrethgir vermin and live forever, mwahhahaha!

Or maybe that the forgotten mistress of Aurelius Venport really is a goddess who used to look like Marcie from the Peanuts comic strip.

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SandChigger
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Postby SandChigger » 06 Jul 2008 22:52

TheDukester wrote:Yeah, Brian is just a brain-dead puppet. I think it's pretty cool, though, that you almost never see KJA's lips move when Brian actually "speaks." That takes a lot of practice.

Yeah, but you don't want to know where or how he inserts his hand. :shock:

(Contrary to rumor, "Norma Cenva" is not an anagram for "Marcie's cervix". ... :shock: )
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"

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Postby HoosierDaddy » 06 Jul 2008 23:42

orald wrote:
Phaedrus wrote:The basic rule is this: Never support weakness; always support strength.

-The Bene Gesserit Coda


Oh yea?

Spend energies on those who make you strong. Energy spent on weaklings drags
you to doom. (HM rule) Bene Gesserit Commentary: Who judges?
-The Dortujla Record


:pow

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Postby Hunchback Jack » 07 Jul 2008 18:19

I've been trying to finish Sandworms for a while now. I'm about 80 pages from the end.

I'm finding it a tedious read, not because nothing's happening, but because I just don't care. I can only stand to read about 10 pages at a time before I lose interest. The Enemy's arrival is nothing more than a by-the-numbers space battle between robots and humans? Yawn. Omnius and Erasmus? Whatever. Gholas finally getting their memories and dropping like flies? Too little, too late.

About 250 pages from the end, the whole thing went south in a hurry. KJA and BH seem to just be throwing plot twists into the mix in a desperate attempt to raise the stakes and generate some drama. But none of it makes any sense, all the characters turn into tired cliches, and the plot resolutions are just *dumb*.

HBJ

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Postby waff » 07 Jul 2008 21:27

Hunchback Jack wrote:I've been trying to finish Sandworms for a while now. I'm about 80 pages from the end.

I'm finding it a tedious read, not because nothing's happening, but because I just don't care. I can only stand to read about 10 pages at a time before I lose interest. The Enemy's arrival is nothing more than a by-the-numbers space battle between robots and humans? Yawn. Omnius and Erasmus? Whatever. Gholas finally getting their memories and dropping like flies? Too little, too late.

About 250 pages from the end, the whole thing went south in a hurry. KJA and BH seem to just be throwing plot twists into the mix in a desperate attempt to raise the stakes and generate some drama. But none of it makes any sense, all the characters turn into tired cliches, and the plot resolutions are just *dumb*.

HBJ



Have you gotten to the part where Murbella unleashes the flying monkeys on Omnius and Duncan puts on his ruby slippers and wakes up back in Kansas, and Paul and Chani are really Uncle Henry and Aunty Em?

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Postby Phaedrus » 07 Jul 2008 22:53

orald wrote:
Phaedrus wrote:The basic rule is this: Never support weakness; always support strength.

-The Bene Gesserit Coda


Oh yea?

Spend energies on those who make you strong. Energy spent on weaklings drags
you to doom. (HM rule) Bene Gesserit Commentary: Who judges?
-The Dortujla Record


You deny the God Emperor Leto II?

"The Atreides lived in the service of the people they governed. The measure of their government was found in the lives of the governed. Thus, the Duncans always want to know how the people live."
"He has spent a night in one village, Lord. He has been to some of the towns. He has seen.. ."
"It's all in how you interpret the results, Moneo. Evidence is nothing without judgments."
"I have observed that he judges, Lord."
"We all do,
but the Duncans tend to believe that this universe is hostage to my will. And they know that you cannot do wrong in the name of right."
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

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Postby SandChigger » 08 Jul 2008 02:33

waff wrote:Have you gotten to the part where Murbella unleashes the flying monkeys on Omnius and Duncan puts on his ruby slippers and wakes up back in Kansas, and Paul and Chani are really Uncle Henry and Aunty Em?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Ref to Kevin's favorite movie! :D
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Postby orald » 08 Jul 2008 09:55

How is that against God Leto's holy words?

God Leto claims, and justly of course, that everyone judges.

That everyone judges makes one judgement the same as the next, and thus "who judges?".
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

I wish I could have been with you that one last time.

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Postby Hunchback Jack » 08 Jul 2008 14:11

waff wrote:Have you gotten to the part where Murbella unleashes the flying monkeys on Omnius and Duncan puts on his ruby slippers and wakes up back in Kansas, and Paul and Chani are really Uncle Henry and Aunty Em?


Yes, I've now finished it. Thank God that's over.

Boy, things really got out of hand. Machines and humans living together in perfect harmony. Side by side on my piano keyboard, oh Lord ... oh wait, sorry, got carried away there.

The ending(s) was a real mess. Tying up loose threads just by having either a way powerful guy 'fix it", or by random events which magically solve the problem, does not a "plot" make. And in more than one place there are contradictory statements made *within paragraphs of each other*, in the mad frenzy to tie things up.

Summary: "Foundation and Earth" (as someone has already mentioned) meets "Matrix Revolutions" - but done far worse than either.

Did we ever find out why Leto II turned into a sandworm and bit the BG in Hunters? Did that go anywhere? I thought not.

HBJ.

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Postby waff » 08 Jul 2008 15:41

You have my sympathies, brother! The ending is just a royal of loose ends mashed together, and loads of crap from their damn prequels. I was expecting Vorian Atreides and Serena Butler to appear as the co-Kwisatz Haderachs who would merge with Duncan and rule the universe as a new God Emperor! Or maybe they would start House Vernius again.

And now I have stuck in my brain the image of Bellonda in that black HM/"New Sisterhood" leotard looking like the Baron Harkonnen.

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Postby Hunchback Jack » 08 Jul 2008 16:09

waff wrote:You have my sympathies, brother!


Thanks. I could rant and rave about this book some more, but I'll just mention the plot thread that epitomizes the whole thing: the Leto II/sandworms thread.

(Spoilers for those who haven't read the book yet, but it probably doesn't matter. Really).

The only scene of note early on is the weird sandworm-morphing thing Leto seems to have going on. That has all kinds of implications. But then Leto II spends the better part of two books being moody and reclusive. Finally, he saddles up the sandworms, and going ridin' into Synchrony, tearing up the town. He gets his memories back, and *simultaneously* remembers all the Duncans he killed and why, but can't remember anything that happened after become a worm/human hybrid. He then offs himself by walking into a sandworm.

Then all the sandworms combine into a big uber-sandworm (why?) and hang out on Synchrony (why?). They are able to survive because eating Leto has made them more tolerant of water. Huh?

So ... Leto was resurrected, and the BG carried the worms around for decades, all so that they could combine to form a mega worm on Synchrony.

Whatever.

HBJ

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Postby waff » 08 Jul 2008 16:48

You better lie down, your brain will melt trying to fathom the intentions of KJA/BH.

They grossly mishandled Leto II as they did all the gholas. They obviously didn't understand anything about GEoD even the mechanics of the Leto-sandworm hybrid. It's a classic case of how they take elements from FH's books, divorce them from their proper content, and ultimately use them for rock-'em sock-'em Star Wars effects.

George Lucas could have given the characters more depth.

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Postby Freakzilla » 08 Jul 2008 16:49

Their shallowness is so thorough it's almost like depth.
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Postby SandChigger » 08 Jul 2008 18:32

Not even.

There are just SO MANY PROBLEMS with that WormBoy scene. For starters: Conservation of Mass, anyone? (Brian: "Huh? Dune 2!" KJA, with a degree in some kind of physics: "Um...that doesn't apply in Frank's universe, for example it's like in Heretics blah blah blah. You just don't read closely enough. Talifan." Byron: "That was explained at the end of Hunters!") Ugh.

But enough of that, let's talk about the really important part:

THE BLACK UNITARDS! :twisted:
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"

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Postby waff » 08 Jul 2008 19:01

I have had sexual fantasies about Eramus dressed as Marty.

Greatest revelation in the history of literature!!!!!!

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Postby Hunchback Jack » 08 Jul 2008 19:21

SandChigger wrote:There are just SO MANY PROBLEMS with that WormBoy scene.


Not just scientific ones, either. What infuriated me was that the whole plot thread went nowhere, spewing random nonsense as it went. In fact, all the plot threads went nowhere because the only thing that mattered was Duncan super-schlong Idaho solving everything by becoming The One.

Murbella's attempts to defend humanity? Didn't matter. Sheanna's/Leto's/BG's battle on Synchrony? Had no purpose or effect. Waff's worm resurrection on Arrakis? Waste of time. Duel between the Pauls? Pointless and irrelevant.

KJA and BH didn't even bother to circle back and close off the whole seaworms plot thread.

HBJ,
stopping now. Really.

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Postby SandChigger » 08 Jul 2008 20:51

I'd love to know if there was originally more to that arc but they cut it (from Sadworms) after the WTF response! ;)

Nah, that would imply they pay attention to what we're saying. (Of course, they did go back and quietly slip in those paragraphs with Duncan and Teg talking about Teg's super powers in the paperback of Grunters.)

As da baby bounces, though, they just left it up in the air, unexplained. Like Alia in the Baron's head, like ... like ... take your pick.


But Brian is Frank's son and Kevin is a worldwide bestselling author. They MUST know what they're doing. :roll:

(Where's Ole Mouthpiece gotten to lately? I guess he only answers when Kevin whistles now. HMV.)
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"

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Postby Seraphan » 09 Jul 2008 12:27

Of course they know what they're doing, they are writting a lot of crap in an attempt to make what FH wrotte into "inconsistencies", considering what KJA said in an interview. He is, in other words, stealing FH work. What's most impressive of all is the fact that they are letting him. But his presumption is so laughable, here's his way of writting "great" novels :beat dead horse:
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