A Legacy for OH's

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Postby GamePlayer » 05 Aug 2008 22:36

SandChigger wrote:Oh, yeah: As I feared, someone with very little intelligence and a cob lodged permanently up her ass has read this thread and gotten her panties all soaking at the prospect of us planning some illegal act.


:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

*rolls on ground*
*losing control of bladder*
*gasping for air*

Oh yeah, that one hit the old funny bone with an atomic! :lol:

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Postby SandChigger » 06 Aug 2008 00:39

TheDukester wrote:Do you have linkage? You know, for those of us who are slow on the uptake ... :)

For you, anytime:

http://houseatreides2.freeforums.org/is ... 5.html#649

Save you the trouble, though: at the end of the linked comment:

Hypatia wrote:Set the date for the book-burning yet?

And in a later one:
Considering that what the guys are suggesting is technically illegal, and you are abetting that by tolerating it on a forum that you are partially responsible for running, you're not really "staying out" of it, are you?

Some people obviously just need a really good rogering. (Anyone think she's had her birdbath churned since the guy that knocked off her glasses?)

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Postby halcyo » 06 Aug 2008 09:50

jeez, no kidding.... haven't people learned not take things like this seriously on internet forums?

Although if we were to 'carefully' allow this rumored 'threat' to exist, it may be amusing to see bodyguards and/or extra security surrounding the release date and the author's themselves.

People then would ask, "why do two goofy authors have bodyguards?!"

The obvious assumption would then be made that the fans disagree with what they've created so intensely that they fear for their well-being....!

Of course, if they were like Leto II, they would proceed with their activities as if no threat were made at all, because they wouldn't want the public to acknowledge that people despise their works!

THATS some Dune logic!


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Postby GamePlayer » 06 Aug 2008 10:01

SandChigger wrote:
Hypatia wrote:Set the date for the book-burning yet?

And in a later one:
Considering that what the guys are suggesting is technically illegal, and you are abetting that by tolerating it on a forum that you are partially responsible for running, you're not really "staying out" of it, are you?


Do these people not "get it"?

I can see why these morons are prequel fans. They are just like KJA, unable to cope with real people so they take everything literally and proclaim everyone a terrorist/commie/child molester. Then when nothing happens and it finally sinks in that the whole thread was a joke, they blame everyone else for their own naivete.

Hyppo and her crowd have been online way WAY too long for their own good. They need to get out more.

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Postby orald » 06 Aug 2008 10:34

TheDukester wrote:Anyone who would take this exercise in wish-fulfillment seriously just reinforces my belief that stupid people should have to get a license before being allowed online.

We were...kidding?

Ah, damn, I've got to cancle my flight ticket to th US then. :?
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Postby Ampoliros » 06 Aug 2008 12:16

I added this to the discussion over there:

As initiator of the thread that is under debate might i put in my .0000002ml of spice?

Stealing the books, is yes illegal. I'm not suggesting or supporting that action. However, destroying a book i legally purchased and own, and displaying that destruction publically (i.e. you tube) is free speech.

However, after rethinking that action, i realized that burning the book would release carbon into the atmosphere, increasing the pollution in my area. Symbolically burning the book would be counterproductive for several reasons.

1. Book burning is mostly linked to Nazi purges of banned books. Orthodox Herbertians probably dont want to be linked to Nazi's especially by people who blatantly label honorable people to be "Talifans".

2. There is no such thing as bad publicity, and this will of course increase interest in the book.

3. While burning by some cultures is seen as purging, some cultures also see it as a release. I am definitely not going to release Paul of Dune in to the atmosphere. Releasing this "energy" used to create the book anywhere is tantamount to poisoning the environment, even if only symbolically.

So basically, lets just take what ever copies we come across and lock them away in a deep and dark place. Time will be our executioner, because 100 years from now, people will still read Dune, and the "BH"&KJA nonsense will be remembered as fondly and as well as the infamous Star Wars Christmas Special.


To the HLP, This brings up the main point i think the OH are trying to make. Frank left a great legacy to us with Dune. The story of Dune is far from over, but the "additions" to the universe, in the cavalier and blatantly farmed and manufactured method in which they are produced is nothing but an embarrassment to the Frank Herbert Legacy. Frank showed us how to think in the long term; over lifetimes and ages. Duct Taping on serial novels that have the production value of very bad fan fiction with absolutely no respect to the original text; I say that again, the new novels have absolutely no respect for the original series; stinks of simply attempting to render down every last mote of Frank's creation into cash. It's sad that his family has so little respect for him or his work.
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Postby SandChigger » 06 Aug 2008 19:13

BRAVO. Nothing more to say.
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Postby halcyo » 06 Aug 2008 19:19

Well said.....


It sucks that as a fan of the originals, I feel like I need to apologize for and warn people about the new ones. I know that I end up sounding overly defensive and slightly insane, but I'm sure that's what people think!

No matter what the HLP admits, I believe that all that they have contributed to 'Dune', as an entire artistic concept, after Frank's death, will eventually be seen as having 'watered down' a monumental work.

It's like saying "Here's James Joyce's 'Ulysses', and oh, and here is his money hungry, half assed son's sequel to it"....

I'm not even saying that Brian and Kevin shouldn't be writers - they probably write fine science fiction - but the fact is the entire original Dune series is NOT science fiction - it is a literary MASTERPIECE that should not be fucked with!

Aren't they happy with their OWN books/series/creations?! Do they think they are doing the fans a FAVOR by 'completing' the story or something? IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THEY ARE IN IT BECAUSE IT IS AN EASY AVENUE TO MONEY AND FAME, and nothing can convince me otherwise! Am I the only guy in here who would feel totally unsatisfied if my biggest creative success was literally just an extension of my father's? I would want to forge my own path, create my OWN universe! But unfortunately, they view it as an industry, and not a noble, passionate expression.... Maybe that's what happens when you grow up with a famous father?

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Postby SandChigger » 06 Aug 2008 22:47

Nice as well.

I think that's the big problem with Kevin. For him, writing is his job and every book is a project to be cleared off the agenda. Sure, he mouthfarts about only being happy or feeling fulfilled when he's "writing", but it always comes across, to me at least, as an act. He moans too much about how busy he is and hard the schedule is. Is that how you imagine someone with a real vocation acting? Did FH go on and on about it like that?

And that's why Kevin's a hack.
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Postby halcyo » 07 Aug 2008 10:35

I'll admit, I've never read any of his other works, only about 2 chapters from 'Machine Crusade' before it pissed me off so much I closed the book and never touched it again, so although I am compelled to agree that he is a hack, I certainly am in no position to comprehensively judge his talent.

HOWEVER - why the hell do they both always have like 4 fucking books that are all 'being released' or 'almost done' or 'in the works'? Can't they just slow down? What advantage do they gain by releasing so many works? And how many books with TWO authors have ever been any good anyway?! I agree that it is definitely POP Science Fiction, which has been known to be a guilty pleasure of mine, but does NOT belong near anything with the word DUNE involved!

C'mon! They've gotten their names out there, right? He's pimped being the son of Frank Herbert enough to sell some books on his own now, hasn't he? I just can't imagine what those closest to Frank must REALLY think about what they are doing? I mean, they've released MORE prequels/sequels/side-stories than there is original books - that's getting absurd!

Writing silly prequels and side-stories/fan fiction is one thing - but actually claiming to be FINISHING the ORIGINAL SERIES!? That's fucking ludicrous, selfish and insulting! Even I have enough respect for Frank not to assume that I could continue HIS creation, and I didn't even know the man!


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Postby Purge » 07 Aug 2008 10:57

It would be one thing IMO if Frank was still alive and selected and allowed others to write stories within the Duniverse regarding different points in the Dune timeline. This is clearly something different. I don't know whether or not Frank intended to continue. Considering he released Chapterhouse in 85 and died in 86 I can't say for sure he had no intention of "finishing" the events of Heretics and Chapterhouse. But I don't accept that Legends, SW, and Hunters were what he had in mind, and I think the preqs and these new "fillers" are inherently antithetical - and filled with antithetical information - to Frank's Dune books.

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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 07 Aug 2008 11:10

I just find it offensive that the guy who was a master at writing put at least several years between each book (even between D, DM and CoD which it sounds like he pretty much wrote at least the roughs at the same time - but took the time necessary to perfect them) but those two who should honestly know that they have issues with their prose and character development pump one out a year.
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Postby Nekhrun » 07 Aug 2008 11:24

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I just find it offensive that the guy who was a master at writing put at least several years between each book (even between D, DM and CoD which it sounds like he pretty much wrote at least the roughs at the same time - but took the time necessary to perfect them) but those two who should honestly know that they have issues with their prose and character development pump one out a year.

Sometimes it's about gettin' paid. I'm sure pissing all over Frank's legacy is worth making your mortgage payments. I wouldn't do it, but then again, I'm good with my money.

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Postby TheDukester » 07 Aug 2008 13:57

halcyo wrote:What advantage do they gain by releasing so many works?

More trips to the bank.

halcyo wrote:And how many books with TWO authors have ever been any good anyway?!

Very few. I liked The Talisman a lot, but that book actually had two talented authors who care about their craft.

Frankly, I strongly suspect that the new Dune series has only one author, anyway ... and his name ain't "Herbert."

halcyo wrote:Writing silly prequels and side-stories/fan fiction is one thing - but actually claiming to be FINISHING the ORIGINAL SERIES!? That's fucking ludicrous, selfish and insulting!

They can claim all they want, of course, but they know they're not finishing anything but their own fanfic series. And that bothers them. Even better, it really bothers their fans: there's no surer way to really get a preek frothing than to say that the KJA/BH books aren't canon.

Which, of course, they aren't. An 8-year-old would understand why not. But that's a subject for an other thread, probably.
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Postby Ampoliros » 07 Aug 2008 17:28

Purge wrote:It would be one thing IMO if Frank was still alive and selected and allowed others to write stories within the Duniverse regarding different points in the Dune timeline. This is clearly something different. I don't know whether or not Frank intended to continue. Considering he released Chapterhouse in 85 and died in 86 I can't say for sure he had no intention of "finishing" the events of Heretics and Chapterhouse. But I don't accept that Legends, SW, and Hunters were what he had in mind, and I think the preqs and these new "fillers" are inherently antithetical - and filled with antithetical information - to Frank's Dune books.


<cough> Lucas <cough> <cough>. Even in that case, Lucas has said publicly he likes having other people write their own versions and adventures in Star Wars because it has become a thing of its own. The difference here is that Star Wars is pop opera sci-fi in its original incarnation, so silliness doesn't sully it. (Just starfighter sized superweapons that have infinite shields and can only be flown by super-jedi. Wait if it can only be flown by superjedi, who designed the controls? Don't forget the fact that its designed to BLOW UP STARS but the creator didn't think the GALACTIC EMPIRE wanted it as a weapon... My Brain is chewing on itself right now rather than try and imagine that this was meant to be taken serious. Sorry i guess i need to start a trashe Kevin's Superweapons thread. Not to mention that in a tactical reenactment using the WEG D6 Star Wars Stats i used the Death Star I to beat the living shit out of the Sun Crusher)

TheDukester wrote:Frankly, I strongly suspect that the new Dune series has only one author, anyway ... and his name ain't "Herbert."


100% agree. I'd like to get an expert on body language to watch the KJA/BH interviews and point out everything that supports this as well as all the times they lie or obfuscate anything about the mythic notes. IMHO the offical timeline looks something like this

KJA: I called BH and said i wanted to write some Dune novels. Cause I was about done milking Star Wars, and getting some heat on certain "inconsistancies" that fans weren't able to stomach. Too bad for them i'm the author and they are just the consumer. Pfft. Anyway, Brian started to say "No, i don't thin..." but i told him to shut it unless he wanted my friends at the Co$ to start looking too deeply into his Luddite personality. Start signing him up for Techno mags and such. But Yeah, Brian said he'd think about it so i sent a letter to the HLP showing them how i could pump out books at the rate of at least 1 per year, and while i'd rather it be only my name on the cover, using a "Herbie" on the byline would definitely add credit, just in case some wacko hippie idiots wanted to start crying foul.
Brian said he'd like to at least look over my drafts to ensure the legacy and I agreed, knowing it would be easy to manipulate him once the money started pouring in. At first I only wanted a small share, but the plan was to eventually get myself in on the HLP's board since I did do most of the work. House Atreides came out, to rabid response from fans and talifans alike. talifans! you like that? i thought it up myself (STFU Karen). I like comparing people in defense of things sacred to them to people who are actively trying to kill innocent people. It makes me warm inside to see them squirm while at the same time making me look more American. Talifan, lawl. Anyway, after the House series, some nitpicking fanatics said I had ignored some key events and themes of the original...er Dune? yeah. I love that movie. Anyway, i had to think on my toes. I love my job but i can't just pull a Deus Ex Machina in real life now can I...hmmm.
I got in contact with some of my Co$ advertising friends. We came up with the idea that all those notes Frank had left behind might have a use after all. Turns out we had a couple of Floppies from an old computer that we found in a garage sale. Some other idiot had thought he had the chops to write a new Dune, but it was basically garbage fan fic. This gave me an idea. With the newly discovered 'disks' containing 'notes on Dune 7' we went to work copying and pasting Herbie's notes into something looking like an outline in his own handwriting! Now those stupid Talifans would have to take as gospel that My writing was part of Dune Forever.
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Postby halcyo » 07 Aug 2008 19:57

:lol:




....well, actually, it's not funny at all...:cry:



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Postby SandChigger » 07 Aug 2008 20:22

Brian? Kevin? Would the real villain PLEASE stand up?! :lol:
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Postby halcyo » 08 Aug 2008 11:20

It would honestly be less creepy and absurd to me if we were to find out that Kevin is the primary writer. At least he's just some 'other' guy looking to get rich and famous off of a successful franchise! At least he's not Franks SON!

My point is, I'd feel 'less ridiculous' about rippin' off soneone elses dad than my own!

Brian has no excuses however.... :x

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Postby Ampoliros » 08 Aug 2008 11:43

I do feel sorry for Brian and I apologize to him for the harsh treatment we give the new novels. I think he's had it rough and people are pushing him around on this. I still think he has some anger issues with Frank that need to be worked out, but from what I've read I don't blame him for them.

KJA on the other hand, I see as basically a hack who wants to slap his name on everything he can. I'm also convinced he's doing this because he's in bed with the Co$ and they have given him a mission to destroy legacy sci-fi.
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Postby halcyo » 08 Aug 2008 14:21

I must have missed something.....what or who is Co$?


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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 08 Aug 2008 14:54

halcyo wrote:I must have missed something.....what or who is Co$?


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Postby Irulan Corrino » 08 Aug 2008 15:17

Hm, so KJA is a bestselling novelist? What the hell does that mean, anyway?

Bestselling doesn't mean someone's a decent author, it simply means that enough stupid people dished out money to buy something I wouldn't wipe my posterior with if it was the last paper product on earth.

Verily I say unto you...beware of the power of stupid people in large groups. :roll:
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Postby Serkanner » 08 Aug 2008 15:32

Hence my avatar. The avatar isn't allowed on the "official" forum. They don't allow art on the site ... :lol:
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Postby Irulan Corrino » 08 Aug 2008 15:47

The avatar isn't allowed on the "official" forum.


Wtf, why not? I think it's damn inventive. 8) :twisted:
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Postby TheDukester » 08 Aug 2008 16:24

Irulan Corrino wrote:What the hell does that mean, anyway?

Exactly this: the book received support (marketing and advertising) from the publisher. That's it.

It's not a merit-based concept at all, which is one of the reasons I can't stand that douchebag Byron and his ridiculous announcements of sales figures that he's so constantly sprouting. They are utterly without meaning ... not that that is ever going to stop a guy who sold his soul years ago to a two-bit hack who is methodically destroying his family's legacy.
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