Paul of Dune spoilers

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SimonH
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Postby SimonH » 27 Oct 2008 21:56

I think it comes down to the fact that navigators were just being used for navigating, not informing Shaddam what to do next. Therefore the oracular effect is irrelevant

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Ampoliros
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Postby Ampoliros » 28 Oct 2008 11:31

I think you all are jumping to the end of the logic train here instead of stopping this one at the station.


Only KJA's Retard Paul would need a spice trip to realize that it was the Guild that was ferrying the separatists about. The Guild is not that stupid, they know Paul will destroy the spice if they defy him. Paul made the Guild his bitch at the end of Dune. Its even in the movie Kevin!

Yet another ear-biting plot thread in this POS.
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Postby GamePlayer » 28 Oct 2008 11:59

Ampoliros wrote:Its even in the movie Kevin!


LOL :) Classic
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Postby Freakzilla » 28 Oct 2008 12:26

Ampoliros wrote:I think you all are jumping to the end of the logic train here instead of stopping this one at the station.


Only KJA's Retard Paul would need a spice trip to realize that it was the Guild that was ferrying the separatists about. The Guild is not that stupid, they know Paul will destroy the spice if they defy him. Paul made the Guild his bitch at the end of Dune. Its even in the movie Kevin!

Yet another ear-biting plot thread in this POS.


The Guild, at the time, was the only one who could ferry anyone at all.

Duh... it was the Guild? Really?

:P
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Postby Hunchback Jack » 28 Oct 2008 12:47

Freakzilla wrote:"You have seen the future, Paul," Jessica said. "Will you say what you've
seen?"
"Not the future," he said. "I've seen the Now." He forced himself to a
sitting position, waved Chani aside as she moved to help him. "The Space above
Arrakis is filled with the ships of the Guild."
Jessica trembled at the certainty in his voice.
"The Padishah Emperor himself is there," Paul said. He looked at the rock
ceiling of his cell. "With his favorite Truthsayer and five legions of
Sardaukar. The old Baron Vladimir Harkonnen is there with Thufir Hawat beside
him and seven ships jammed with every conscript he could muster. Every Great
House has its raiders above us . . . waiting."
Chani shook her head, unable to look away from Paul. His strangeness, the
flat tone of voice, the way he looked through her, filled her with awe.
Jessica tried to swallow in a dry throat, said: "For what are they waiting?"
Paul looked at her. "For the Guild's permission to land. The Guild will
strand on Arrakis any force that lands without permission."
"The Guild's protecting us?" Jessica asked.
"Protecting us! The Guild itself caused this by spreading tales about what
we do here and by reducing troop transport fares to a point where even the
poorest Houses are up there now waiting to loot us."


I don't think this passage necessarily means that Paul can literally see inside the ships. He can see the future; he knows who is inside those ships from future events.

I wouldn't take his first reply to Jessica too literally. He can see many futures; it is the question of the Guild's permission which prevents him from knowing which future will happen. But from the many futures he can see, he knows what is occurring now.

HBJ

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Freakzilla
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Postby Freakzilla » 28 Oct 2008 12:58

He does say he sees the now. At this point I believe Paul couldn't see past his fight with Feyd and neither could the Navigators. So there's really nothing to hide.

Anyway, the Guild Navigators couldn't possibly hide a whole armada. Every soldier couldn't share their aims and goals. I don't think the Guild realy wanted anything more than to continue existing at this point. They were just providing transportation.
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Postby DuneFishUK » 28 Oct 2008 14:04

Wouldn't he be able to work out most of that from just his mentat abilities? Obviously there is a prescience element in this case, but he wouldn't have to see every last little detail to project pretty exactly what was going on.



(edit: Like what Tleszer said :P )

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Postby Freakzilla » 28 Oct 2008 14:51

DuneFishUK wrote:Wouldn't he be able to work out most of that from just his mentat abilities? Obviously there is a prescience element in this case, but he wouldn't have to see every last little detail to project pretty exactly what was going on.



(edit: Like what Tleszer said :P )


Yeah, that's a good point. I meant to add that.
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Postby DuneFishUK » 16 Nov 2008 13:07

SandChigger wrote:...

I love how all the representatives sent to the "Great Surrender" ceremony by the Great Houses, supposed rulers over a Million Worlds, are described as consisting of only hundreds or thousands. :roll:

YAWN.

(Having them bring water WAS an interesting touch in a way, but again it shows that they BASICALLY AND FUNDAMENTALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND DUNE.

Arrakis was once a watery planet. The water is still there, it's just encapsulated and trapped underground by millions or billions of sandtrout. This isn't the homeworld of the lizard people from "V", who come to Earth to steal our water. People don't need to bring more water to Arrakis, only to release the water already there.

THEY JUST DON'T GET IT. :roll: )


Just been rereading Dune and came across the appropriate passage...

DUNE (When Kynes is dying in the desert) wrote:"I'm ignoring you, Father," Brian whispered. "Go away."
And he thought: Surely there must be some of my Fremen near. They cannot
help but see the birds over me. They will investigate if only to see if there's
moisture available.
"The masses of Arrakis will know that we work to make the land flow with
water," his father said. "Most of them, of course, will have only a semimystical
understanding of how we intend to do this. Many, not understanding the
prohibitive mass-ratio problem, may even think we'll bring water from some other
planet rich in it
. Let them think anything they wish as long as they believe in
us."
In a minute I'll get up and tell him what I think of him, Kynes thought.
Standing there lecturing me when he should be helping me.


Read into the rest of it what you will :wink:

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Postby SandChigger » 16 Nov 2008 16:00

It's the leetle touches that prove the art. ;)

Afterthought:

I don't have time to check at the moment, but was there anything mentioned about the water being sterilized before transport.

Got to thinking while showering this morning: water would be full of alien (to Arrakis) bacteria and other goodies.

It just keeps getting better. :roll:
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Postby SandRider » 16 Nov 2008 19:09

but wait. I've been going over the Dune7 Blog with a lice comb, and it's clear Kevin spends alot of time going over details during the editing process, maybe even as much as a full minute per page of text. I'm sure all these types of things were discussed and reconciled before publication and the final product was the absolute best he could make it.
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Postby GamePlayer » 17 Nov 2008 11:55

SandRider wrote:...and the final product was the absolute best he could make it.


I've no doubt KJA's books were the best he could do, which is why KJA shouldn't be writing Dune books :)
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Postby Ampoliros » 17 Nov 2008 12:02

It doesn't matter if KJA has a passing knowledge or a PHD in Dune. The fact is he doesn't give a flying fuck about any of Frank's details.

Clearly, Kevin thinks he is the superior author (He's still alive, He has more books written, He has Frank's son bound and gagged and or brainwashed, fanboys would suck his dick for an autograph and once again for the privledge)

From his high vantage point he can't see that he's built a tower of cards to rival Frank's monolith. Hey Kevin, you need a solid foundation if you want to be remembered. Sooner or later people will start taking back all the cards you used to build your reputation. Whoops there goes Star Wars, opps, just pulled out X-files...all you have to stand on now is shadows of the xel'naga....JENGA!

Luckly all those moldy and dust-gathering Saga of Sucking Suns paperbacks might cushion your fall...no wait, Obama's new recycling plan requires us to repossess those for reprinting of new books.

Have a nice fall! Maybe in the 32 feet per second/per second you might have an original idea and write something worthwhile. But we aren't holding our breath.
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Postby Frybread » 17 Nov 2008 12:39

<i>It doesn't matter if KJA has a passing knowledge or a PHD in Dune. The fact is he doesn't give a flying fuck about any of Frank's details.

Clearly, Kevin thinks he is the superior author (He's still alive, He has more books written, He has Frank's son bound and gagged and or brainwashed, fanboys would suck his dick for an autograph and once again for the privledge)</i>

Don't forget that fanboys consider Kevin to be the father of that convoluted mess they call the Star Wars Expanded Universe.