Paul of Dune spoilers

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Postby SandChigger » 20 Oct 2008 21:30

More evidence that...THEY JUST DON'T GET IT!

From p.439 of PoD (VII.2):

Listening to the humming restlessness of the vast city, he absorbed the vibrations in the air, the mixture of scents that filled every breath, unfiltered by stillsuit nose plugs.

See the problem there? (Yes, it's another one of those "little" nitpicking details that obviously doesn't matter to Kevin or his fans.) Maybe this quote from Dune will help:

Kynes knelt, examined the leg seals. "Urine and feces are processed in the thigh pads," he said, and stood up, felt the neck fitting, lifted a sectioned flap there. "In the open desert, you wear this filter across your face, this tube in the nostrils with these plugs to insure a tight fit. Breathe in through the mouth filter, out through the nose tube. With a Fremen suit in good working order, you won't lose more than a thimbleful of moisture a day—even if you're caught in the Great Erg."

Got it yet?

Wearing a stillsuit, you're breathing in through your mouth and out through your nose. THAT would reduce your ability to smell. Besides, the nose plugs would prevent air from entering, so they wouldn't ever be "filtering" smells, now would they?

Repeat after me: THEY JUST DON'T GET IT.

Later, at the end of the same "chapter" (p. 442, emphasis added):

"Shai-Hulud! To me!" Paul planted his feet properly, gauging the worm's approach, and at just the right moment, hooked one of the ring segments. He clasped the rope and scrambled up the worm's pebbly side.

This was only a medium-size worm. It would serve him well enough, without being impressive, though he was sure the observers would describe it as the greatest ever seen on Dune. Without a backward glance, paying no heed to the cheers and praise, Paul scrambled onto the beast's back. He inserted the spreaders in a practiced manner, opened the worm segments to the sensitive flesh beneath, and struck the worm's head with his goad. Anchoring himself with his ropes, he turned the beast and raced out onto the open dunes, spraying sand and dust.

Gawd, where to start?

A lone rider would get on top of a worm as it turned to keep the segment the rider was exposing away from the sand. He wouldn't have to "scramble" up it.

Are scales "pebbly"? I guess it depends on your personal definition of the words. Anyway:

FH in Dune wrote: Paul glanced down at the scaled ring surface on which they stood, noted the character and size of the scales, the way they grew larger off to his right, smaller to his left.

"Spreaders" are NOT mentioned ONCE in any of FH's books. But they do appear in the new books. They're...um...from the Lynch movie, right?

Next, who ever hit a worm's head to goad it on?

FH wrote: And far to the rear along the worm's surface, Paul heard the beat of the goaders pounding the tail segments. The worm began picking up speed.

Let's just cut to the chase and see how it was really done:

Paul lifted his hooks, sighted along them, leaned in. He felt them bite and pull. He leaped upward, planting his feet against that wall, leaning out against the clinging barbs. This was the true instant of the testing: if he had planted the hooks correctly at the leading edge of a ring segment, opening the segment, the worm would not roll down and crush him.

The worm slowed. It glided across the thumper, silencing it. Slowly, it began to roll—up, up—bringing those irritant barbs as high as possible, away from the sand that threatened the soft inner lapping of its ring segment.

Paul found himself riding upright atop the worm. He felt exultant, like an emperor surveying his world. He suppressed a sudden urge to cavort there, to turn the worm, to show off his mastery of this creature.

Suddenly he understood why Stilgar had warned him once about brash young men who danced and played with these monsters, doing handstands on their backs, removing both hooks and replanting them before the worm could spill them.

Leaving one hook in place, Paul released the other and planted it lower down the side. When the second hook was firm and tested, he brought down the first one, thus worked his way down the side. The maker rolled, and as it rolled, it turned, coming around the sweep of flour sand where the others waited.

Paul saw them come up, using their hooks to climb, but avoiding the sensitive ring edges until they were on top. They rode at last in a triple line behind him, steadied against their hooks.

OK, all together again: THEY JUST DON'T GET IT.

And what's worse, they couldn't even fucking be bothered to look at the original book to check the details.

Finally, Freak, here's a special one from the following chapter, just for you! :P

Hiker Hack and the other guy on p. 446 of PoD wrote:Though Alia could not control the mechanics of the dice rolls, she gradually began to realize how these men were interpreting—and manipulating—the results. As for herself, she had a far more interesting means of cheating. With glimpses of prescience, Alia could determine how most of the rolls would come out. Even with the dice subtly weighted to give unexpected results, she could frequently see which dice to hold back and which ones to play, then place bold wagers accordingly. "Luck" was with her in a more concrete way than any other gambler could imagine.

Enjoy!
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby SandChigger » 20 Oct 2008 21:45

Maybe when Kevin was writing that there was a "Medium" rerun playing on the tube or something.

Yeah!

Allison Dubois rules! :P

(Oh...wait a minute...that would require him to have a strap-on TV or something, along on the hikes, wouldn't it? Hmmm...may have to rethink this one. ... Nah, what the hell, they never do! :D )
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby TheDukester » 20 Oct 2008 21:48

I don't see the problem. Paul is a fucking Jedi, for crying out loud! He can do anything!
"Anything I write will be remembered and listed in bibliographies on Dune for several hundred years ..." — some delusional halfwit troll.

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Postby SandChigger » 20 Oct 2008 22:29

No, Dude, he's a frickin' GAWD!

:D

Here, I just posted my mini-summaries for Part VI on my WP page. Here's the one for "Chapter" 11:

p.430 - Atreides forces return to Caladan. Jessica comes to the spaceport through a pouring rain to greet Leto and Paul. (After all these years, he still gets her wet.) Leto swears his undying devotion to her—and his intention to reject any future marriage proposals—in front of Paul, several spaceport personnel, a local vagrant named Jorj and a pile of slightly off halibut awaiting shipment to Hagal.

OK...so I got a bit silly at the end....

(Just one more part to do!)
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 20 Oct 2008 22:40

SandChigger wrote:
FH in Dune wrote: Paul glanced down at the scaled ring surface on which they stood, noted the character and size of the scales, the way they grew larger off to his right, smaller to his left.

"Spreaders" are NOT mentioned ONCE in any of FH's books. But they do appear in the new books. They're...um...from the Lynch movie, right?


Yes, Lynch Movie, exactly. Now I get it, they didn't read the book, they saw the movie! I think Lynch should be more proud of his work: The hacks are continuing his work! I think we have to wait little to see Paul using his "killing words".

The Dukester wrote:I don't see the problem. Paul is a fucking Jedi, for crying out loud! He can do anything!


I think he isn't even a Jedi, because his visions are not literal and clear, do you know? :roll:
Last edited by Lisan Al-Gaib on 20 Oct 2008 22:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Robspierre » 20 Oct 2008 22:45

This thread details why i had to rush through it, it was godfucking awful.

Rob

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Postby TheDukester » 21 Oct 2008 02:26

SandChigger wrote:Repeat after me: THEY JUST DON'T GET IT.

THEY JUST DON'T GET IT!

(Wheee! Fun!) :)
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Postby SandChigger » 21 Oct 2008 04:49

Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:I think we have to wait little to see Paul using his "killing words".

Judges, what do you think?

[pssswasssphapssspssspsspspsspwwwapssssahwah]

You're sure? OK...

DING DING DING! YES, WE HAVE A WINNER!!! :D

It was kinda close, but the judges are in a good mood today and say, Oh, just GO with it!

Two guys who watched the Lynch movie too many times on p. 223 of PoD wrote:When the guards tried to haul the paunchy man back to rejoin the others, he suddenly sagged in their arms, as if he had fainted. Korba touched the man's neck, sniffed his breath. "This one is dead." With a wolfish grin, he cast a scornful look at the other green-robed priests, then faced the crowds gathered inside the Celestial Audience Chamber. "Muad'Dib struck him dead with a glance! No one escapes the gaze of our Emperor." In the chamber, Paul heard a low chanting of his name.


(OK, not quite the same, because it's obvious Korba had someone dart the guy, but the idea is obviously there. The only support for anything like such a power in the originals would be Paul's threat to kill Mohiam with a word at the end of Dune.)
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Ghost » 21 Oct 2008 08:29

Goog, good.

So the notes are= Lynch movie + Dune Encyclopedia, right?

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Postby Freakzilla » 21 Oct 2008 08:45

Ghost wrote:Goog, good.

So the notes are= Lynch movie + Dune Encyclopedia, right?


With some Star Wars thrown in for the kiddies.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 21 Oct 2008 11:48

Nice catch with the worm mounting Chig - what rope? What was this rope attatched to? While Paul was climbing the rope what was keeping the worm on the surface and stopping it from rolling over onto him?

Seriously, I understand some of their mistakes but how'd they pull that one off?
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Postby Freakzilla » 21 Oct 2008 12:06

SandChigger wrote:Maybe when Kevin was writing that there was a "Medium" rerun playing on the tube or something.

Yeah!

Allison Dubois rules! :P

(Oh...wait a minute...that would require him to have a strap-on TV or something, along on the hikes, wouldn't it? Hmmm...may have to rethink this one. ... Nah, what the hell, they never do! :D )


You may be right about the strap-on part, at least. :wink:
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Postby TheDukester » 21 Oct 2008 12:06

A Thing of Eternity wrote:While Paul was climbing the rope what was keeping the worm on the surface and stopping it from rolling over onto him?

Jedi mind power, yo.
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Postby Freakzilla » 21 Oct 2008 12:11

So now they're changing the way worms are mounted?

JFC!

The Sandrider plants a MAKER HOOK to pull open a leading ring segment causing the worm to roll the exposed inner surface as high as possible away for the irritating sand. Then the sandrider would extend a rope down for the rest of the troop to climb.

Got that Kevin?
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Postby Frybread » 21 Oct 2008 12:35

Freakzilla wrote:So now they're changing the way worms are mounted?

JFC!

The Sandrider plants a MAKER HOOK to pull open a leading ring segment causing the worm to roll the exposed inner surface as high as possible away for the irritating sand. Then the sandrider would extend a rope down for the rest of the troop to climb.

Got that Kevin?


JC! Pretty soon, they'll change the way prescience functions. Oh wait ...

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Postby SandChigger » 21 Oct 2008 15:48

Join with me now, Brethren and Sistren, in a recitation of the hysterical affirmation of our faith (The Litany Against Despair):

They just don't get it. They just don't get it. They just don't..... ;)
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Hunchback Jack » 21 Oct 2008 16:45

Freakzilla wrote:So now they're changing the way worms are mounted?

JFC!

The Sandrider plants a MAKER HOOK to pull open a leading ring segment causing the worm to roll the exposed inner surface as high as possible away for the irritating sand. Then the sandrider would extend a rope down for the rest of the troop to climb.

Got that Kevin?


The ropes come from the Lynch movie as well, but not to mount the worm. When Paul is at the top of the worm, he attaches hooks with long ropes to a couple of blowholes (?) in the worm's surface, and uses them to "steer".

That's bad enough, but using a rope to mount the worm make no sense at all (if you're the first one on). You have to keep hold of the maker hook in the worm's segment to keep it open. If you see what I mean.

These guys are just idiots.

HBJ

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Postby SandChigger » 21 Oct 2008 18:35

I guess that's also kind of there in the passage I quoted:

Hacks wrote:Anchoring himself with his ropes, he turned the beast and raced out onto the open dunes, spraying sand and dust.

You turn a sandworm by moving down one side or the other, moving the spot on the edge of the ring segment you're keeping open and exposed as you go. You wouldn't have two spots open at the same time, presumably with ropes attached for turning. (Maybe because that might make the worm crazy? Think how an earthworm wriggles all over the place when you dig one up. Maybe a sandworm would react the same way, trying to throw the irritant off?)

So if he has anchored himself with ropes...how is he going to turn the worm? Sheesh.

Go back to the original passage in Dune and note that the other riders climb up by ropes or use their hook—but NOT to open other segments.

THEY REALLY REALLY DON'T GET IT. :roll:
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 21 Oct 2008 18:55

Wonder how Byron would explain that one? :roll:
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Postby Freakzilla » 21 Oct 2008 19:06

A Thing of Eternity wrote:Wonder how Byron would explain that one? :roll:


Irulan wrote Dune, duh.
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Postby Hunchback Jack » 21 Oct 2008 19:12

Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Wonder how Byron would explain that one? :roll:


Irulan wrote Dune, duh.


Oh, man, I'm really going to be pissed off royally if they start pulling *that* shit.

HBJ

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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 21 Oct 2008 19:20

Hunchback Jack wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
A Thing of Eternity wrote:Wonder how Byron would explain that one? :roll:


Irulan wrote Dune, duh.


Oh, man, I'm really going to be pissed off royally if they start pulling *that* shit.

HBJ


Someone should grab the quotes and put it up for Byron to explain. :twisted:
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Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 21 Oct 2008 21:22

SandChigger wrote:There used to be a page like that, called "Discrepancies between Dune novels", listing

(1) inconsistencies between and within Frank's works (changing description of Navigators, Face Dancer or Master Scytale, Farok's magic arms)

(2) inconsistencies between the originals and new books (take your pick)

(3) inconsistencies between various new books (House Ecaz first led by Prad Vidal [Sassoon?] in Dumb: House Atrocious and later by Armand [Hammer?] Ecaz. Note that in Pile of Dung Prad is the rebel leader captured in a fog tree and beheaded by Duke Leto and Gurney Man)

Since no one has yet published a book or other citable source on this stuff, it can all be shot down as Original Research.

I saved a version of the page on one of my user pages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SandC ... crepancies

That's after it had been fairly severely savaged by the Wiki Powers of PC. It looked like it was headed for deletion (it was), so I decided it was time to save what was left for posterity. ;)


Hey, Chig,

Could I re-post this article in the Dune Wiki? I would like to have a similar thread about that there.

There are many people writing on the wiki that don't give a shit for the BH&KJA books being so discrepant...I think this article would throw many things in their head.
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Postby SandChigger » 21 Oct 2008 22:40

Sure, Lisan, go ahead! I've just kept a copy there on my page, it's not mine in the sense that I wrote it. (I can't remember if I added or edited anything that's there now.)

I wish I had saved earlier versions, because now that the page has been deleted, everything is gone from the database. Should have saved the talk pages, too, since that's where the main battles with TAZ took place. :(
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 21 Oct 2008 22:53

SandChigger wrote:Sure, Lisan, go ahead! I've just kept a copy there on my page, it's not mine in the sense that I wrote it. (I can't remember if I added or edited anything that's there now.)

I wish I had saved earlier versions, because now that the page has been deleted, everything is gone from the database. Should have saved the talk pages, too, since that's where the main battles with TAZ took place. :(


I did. It's there, and anyone is invited to go, expand and discuss.
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