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Posted: 28 Sep 2008 07:55
by trang
sorry simon, it isnt a matter of opinion, its a matter of story arc and their destroying of it. Im half way thru (this book is hollow and disconnected) and it is has been nothing more than affirmations of the storylines they conjured from the house books.

They have no understanding of the fremen.
They have no understanding of Paul.
They have no understanding of Character building.
They have no understanding of Dialogue.
They have no understanding of Continuity.
They basically have no understanding.

They have attempted to turn dune into Pop-Scifi, and have left barren husk rotting in the sand.

I should finish it today and will post more direct thought. The glaring item that is the most infuriating is for them to try and state this is a direct sequel to Dune. It is pure nonsense (related to the originals) that I find myself speechless as I read it.

Hunters and Sandworms were desperatly bad in many areas, but this is paramount conjuring of the worst order.

I would advise them to stop while they are ahead, more dabbling with the "heroes" of Dune is going to be disaster of mega proportions.

They can write some other space opera fairy tale crap and make money, they have baffled enough mindless drones out there to get them to buy anything they put out, Just leave Dune as it was. pristine, magical, soulful, and epic.

GodEmperor save us!!!!!

Trang

on Paul of Dune

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 10:04
by Sole Man
Man, they really fucked up thos novel...


Pretty soon Paul's gonna come out to be secrertly gay, and somehow have a bastard baby with the ghost of Fyd Ruatha and Alia is going to have a lesbian affair with her mother who is actually her sister.

And don't forget the Leto-Hwi Sex scene.

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 10:46
by dunaddict
You're forgetting what they are planning for 'Leto of Dune':
The epic love story that reveals Leto II to be Chani and Duncan Idaho's secret love-child.
Finally fans will learn the tragic tale of a deranged Tyrant, who, in a futile attempt to deal with childhood trauma, begins to kill his own father again and again and again, using every execution method invented by man! Readers won't be able to put the book down as the evil Leto lures his helpless victims into his blood-stained, deadly lair.

Re: Problem solved

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 11:32
by Lundse
Why have you not retracted the erronous statement on DN?

You know it is wrong, it would take you less than a minute to fix it and you are letting it stand there in your name... How is this not lying?

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 11:54
by Ampoliros
Simon wrote:I wouldn't say they were trying to fool anyone, it just seemed to me like they were addressing what some of you claimed was inaccurate.


I would say they were trying to fool everyone, it looks to me like they were addressing what some of us claimed was inaccurate was true, and that we were wrong because Irulan is wrong, but only in Frank Herbert's books.

For me it was never a story ruining issue, Duncan was ranting drunk when he was going on about blooding his sword on Grumman in Dune, drunk people say weird, often incoherent things. I would have bought that in the expanded timeline he was slurring a bit in DUNE when he was referring to Grumman/s.

People will also claim "weird, often incoherent things" to be gospel truth if you pay them enough. Career soldiers don't lie easily about things that involve their own honor. I would imagine Duncan misspeaking drunk and forgetting someone he killed in an honor duel before entering the Duke's service, but not about who he first killed for the Duke.

I agree that for a lot of fiction, its a matter of opinion. Dune is not a lot of fiction.

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 13:33
by Serkanner
Simon wrote:I wouldn't say they were trying to fool anyone, it just seemed to me like they were addressing what some of you claimed was inaccurate.


:lol: ... are you really this far up the HLP's ass? Man you are insane. I called you a prick, but I take that back ... my prick has a lot more brains then you have underneath your skull. :lol:

This one sentence cures me from ever having to read ANY post by you ever again. I remember you once posted you blacked-out sentences from GEOD because these "minor issues" were inconsistent with the prequels. At first I believed you were joking ... now I know you were not; you are insane!

:lol:

I wish somebody would make a demotivator about you. You deserve it.

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 17:32
by SandChigger
(Excuse me for interrupting the Simon-bashing but just wanted to note that I've corrected my earlier post in this thread about "failed" KHs. The second reference, upon rereading, is obviously Paul thinking to himself. That doesn't explain why he would think of himself, seriously, as a "failed" KH, however.)

Hey...Byron used my REAL NAME in the thread over there!

Whoohoo!

Pussy. :P

Re: Problem solved

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 17:37
by Freakzilla
Lundse wrote:Why have you not retracted the erronous statement on DN?

You know it is wrong, it would take you less than a minute to fix it and you are letting it stand there in your name... How is this not lying?


I don't appreciate that very much.

No one here deleted your post, Simon.

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 17:45
by SandChigger
Here's Spice GrandP's opinion on the matter:

Since Simon has never had a problem over there previously, I find it hard to believe that there wasn't a slip-up on an admins part that "accidentally" deleted it. So, yes, I believe it is possible it got deleted.

He would rather believe that some admin here SANK TO HIS LEVEL than entertain the possibility that Simon just clutzed it up.

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 17:50
by Freakzilla
SandChigger wrote:Here's Spice GrandP's opinion on the matter:

Since Simon has never had a problem over there previously, I find it hard to believe that there wasn't a slip-up on an admins part that "accidentally" deleted it. So, yes, I believe it is possible it got deleted.

He would rather believe that some admin here SANK TO HIS LEVEL than entertain the possibility that Simon just clutzed it up.


I've noticed Byron talks a big game after he's banned someone.

For the last time, we don't delete posts here because we don't like someone's opinion.

You can quote me on that, Simon.

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 17:51
by TheDukester
Simon wrote:blah, blah, blah ... and more blah

Simon, my man, there's only one thing you need to be posting about right now. It has to do with retracting that bullshit you posted over at The Dune Forum With Tumbleweeds Going Through It.

Other than that, you're wasting your time. And ours.

Until there's a retraction, you're pretty much PNG over here.

It's Latin; look it up.

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 18:11
by SandChigger
PNG? Snicker. :lol:

(But seriously, Dukester, if he can't be bothered to look up or correctly spell English words [or words used commonly in English...did anyone else catch the "dachshund" exchange between him and Hyppo? :lol: ], how bleeding likely is it he'll try to look up a Latin phrase? :roll: )


;)

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 20:24
by Freakzilla
Simon, you are welcome to post here but don't expect it to be a warm welcome when you bad-mouth us on DN.

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 20:48
by SimonH
It is the misrepresentation that pisses me off.

A cheap lie to make the DN preeqs feel better on their heavily over-moderated board.

Simon - do you realise that people like me respect Jacurutu (and Freak) because of the openness of this board? We don't all agree, but entire arguments are public for a viewer to judge. DN is now nothing more than a propaganda machine. Byron rewrites the arguments as he likes. I could not get a post to stick, no matter if it was by the rules or not. That is why I asked Byron to remove my account.

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 20:58
by TheDukester
You've hit on the basic problem: Simon just doesn't get why he's angered so many people with that post and the lack of a retraction. I honestly don't know if it's a lack of intelligence or if there's other factors involved, but he's just oblivious to the kind of damage he's doing.

Posted: 28 Sep 2008 23:44
by Rakis
Freakzilla wrote:Simon, you are welcome to post here but don't expect it to be a warm welcome when you bad-mouth us on DN.


+1

Re: Problem solved

Posted: 29 Sep 2008 01:32
by Simon
Freakzilla wrote:
Lundse wrote:Why have you not retracted the erronous statement on DN?

You know it is wrong, it would take you less than a minute to fix it and you are letting it stand there in your name... How is this not lying?


I don't appreciate that very much.

No one here deleted your post, Simon.



If you say so, then I believe you Freak. My apologies to you and anyone I've offended. Trust me, the idea that I messed up on a computer is not at all outside the realm of possibility, like I said before.

It was not my aim to put a black mark on your board. I should have held my tongue until I knew what exactly had happened. I'll make sure to post this retraction and apology in the review thread on DN as well.

Posted: 29 Sep 2008 01:50
by TheDukester
It's late, I'm tired, I don't feel like looking at DN again right now ... but, if you follow through with this, Simon, let me be the first to say: bravo.

Posted: 29 Sep 2008 02:01
by Simon
TheDukester wrote:You've hit on the basic problem: Simon just doesn't get why he's angered so many people with that post and the lack of a retraction. I honestly don't know if it's a lack of intelligence or if there's other factors involved, but he's just oblivious to the kind of damage he's doing.



That is the understatement of the year sir. I admit, I don't "get it".
I understand the technical debate. I get that people have different taste and that to some the change of direction and style are terrible.

I just don't get going online everyday to piss on them. Like I've said before, there is plenty of stuff out there I dislike as much as you dislike NuDune.
For instance, Metallica. I as a great fan of their classics, want to vomit when I see what they have become. I dare say I hate what they have become.

However, I don't waste my time feeding the machine. I don't post anti-Metallica rants on related web pages. I just ignore them.

So, as I've said before, were I you guys that's what I'd do.

But then I also get that these books mean so much to you guys, and that they really made a lasting impression on you and for many, changed your outlook on life. So in that respect, I get your concern.

Lashing out at things I hate online just isn't my way. Sorry. I don't even really go online to endorse things I love. The reason I came to DN to begin with was because of the lack of any serious Dune fans in my life I could discuss the books with. I just wanted to know if these books rocked anyone elses world the way they did mine.

The answer was more complex than I'd ever imagined...

Posted: 29 Sep 2008 02:18
by TheDukester
Sigh ...

I respect that you will retract/edit that post at DN, but, man, you still don't get it.

You need to set aside the books, the authors, the websites, and the philosophies for a minute. What got people so riled up here had nothing to do with any of that.

Put as simply as I can think of: you made a snarky comment about getting something deleted at Jacurutu, a site that takes a great deal of pride in not deleting or censoring anything, ever. Your flippant remark — which was, in fact, also erroneous — upset not only the admins here, but also little 'ol folk like me who recognize and appreciate the fact that there's intelligent conversation here that won't be suddenly erased by Byron Ban-Stick. You then magnified this lack of judgment by ignoring repeated calls for you to issue a simple retraction.

That's it. It's not an OH-preek debate this time. I'm really at a loss as to why you're not getting that.

Argh. Whatever. I've wasted far too much time on this already.

[unsubscribe]

Posted: 29 Sep 2008 02:21
by SimonH
Simon wrote:
TheDukester wrote:You've hit on the basic problem: Simon just doesn't get why he's angered so many people with that post and the lack of a retraction. I honestly don't know if it's a lack of intelligence or if there's other factors involved, but he's just oblivious to the kind of damage he's doing.



That is the understatement of the year sir. I admit, I don't "get it".
I understand the technical debate. I get that people have different taste and that to some the change of direction and style are terrible.

I just don't get going online everyday to piss on them. Like I've said before, there is plenty of stuff out there I dislike as much as you dislike NuDune.
For instance, Metallica. I as a great fan of their classics, want to vomit when I see what they have become. I dare say I hate what they have become.

However, I don't waste my time feeding the machine. I don't post anti-Metallica rants on related web pages. I just ignore them.

So, as I've said before, were I you guys that's what I'd do.

But then I also get that these books mean so much to you guys, and that they really made a lasting impression on you and for many, changed your outlook on life. So in that respect, I get your concern.

Lashing out at things I hate online just isn't my way. Sorry. I don't even really go online to endorse things I love. The reason I came to DN to begin with was because of the lack of any serious Dune fans in my life I could discuss the books with. I just wanted to know if these books rocked anyone elses world the way they did mine.

The answer was more complex than I'd ever imagined...


what has this post got to do with mine or the dukester's comments?

you said on DN that your review was deleted on Jacurutu. This was not the case. This comment stayed there after your post was submitted properly.

This is the problem that everyone is getting angry about. I don't think anyone is going to get angry at you because of your opinion on the BH&KJA books. Unless you have something novel to add above subjective praise, I don't think many people will pay that much attention to your post. Nethertheless, it has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Or are you being obtuse on purpose???

Posted: 29 Sep 2008 02:25
by SandChigger
For the record, he has posted a retraction and apology:

Simon on the DN BBS wrote:Hey all,

Just wanted to take a moment to apologize to the Admin of "Jacurutu.com".

I posted up above that they deleted my review on their web site. Their lead administrator Freakzilla looked into my claim and said that my review was never posted. I believe him. Freak has always been a level guy, and never lied to me as far as I know. So I must give him the benefit of the doubt.

It seems in my 4am haste I probably screwed up and hit "preview", or plainly forgot to "send" altogether as I cut it short, headed for bed.

Again, this is a retraction. I was wrong. My sincere apologies to all.

Thanks, Simon.

I now have a new fish-smelling thing to fry. :twisted:

Hyppoclit on same wrote:Ronald Craig = SandChigger. And it's true, in my opinion, that his hatred of the nuDune books has long since passed the stage of irrational, as well as his hatred of anyone who is capable of interacting civilly with the authors, you, or anyone else in the HLP.

Byron in reply wrote:I just wish people expressed themselves as succinctly as you did here and without the malice that often infuses the posts of Others. It's a sigh of relief to have someone disagree with you without going into flaming or flame-baiting.

I do seriously believe that she and Byron are going to cyberfook right there in that thread, in front of GAWD and everyone. :shock:

Posted: 29 Sep 2008 03:11
by Simon
SimonH wrote:
Simon wrote:
TheDukester wrote:You've hit on the basic problem: Simon just doesn't get why he's angered so many people with that post and the lack of a retraction. I honestly don't know if it's a lack of intelligence or if there's other factors involved, but he's just oblivious to the kind of damage he's doing.



That is the understatement of the year sir. I admit, I don't "get it".
I understand the technical debate. I get that people have different taste and that to some the change of direction and style are terrible.

I just don't get going online everyday to piss on them. Like I've said before, there is plenty of stuff out there I dislike as much as you dislike NuDune.
For instance, Metallica. I as a great fan of their classics, want to vomit when I see what they have become. I dare say I hate what they have become.

However, I don't waste my time feeding the machine. I don't post anti-Metallica rants on related web pages. I just ignore them.

So, as I've said before, were I you guys that's what I'd do.

But then I also get that these books mean so much to you guys, and that they really made a lasting impression on you and for many, changed your outlook on life. So in that respect, I get your concern.

Lashing out at things I hate online just isn't my way. Sorry. I don't even really go online to endorse things I love. The reason I came to DN to begin with was because of the lack of any serious Dune fans in my life I could discuss the books with. I just wanted to know if these books rocked anyone elses world the way they did mine.

The answer was more complex than I'd ever imagined...


what has this post got to do with mine or the dukester's comments?

you said on DN that your review was deleted on Jacurutu. This was not the case. This comment stayed there after your post was submitted properly.

This is the problem that everyone is getting angry about. I don't think anyone is going to get angry at you because of your opinion on the BH&KJA books. Unless you have something novel to add above subjective praise, I don't think many people will pay that much attention to your post. Nethertheless, it has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Or are you being obtuse on purpose???


Well, not on purpose at any rate.

I swear, I attempted to post my review only to be fair. I didn't wish to be accused of hiding behind DN, where (let's face it) the review was destined to go over better. I had and have no intention of going into a PoD praise fest on this site. I know where you guys stand and you know where I stand, no need to beat a dead horse. I bought it, I liked it, I said so, I'll leave it at that.

Posted: 29 Sep 2008 10:52
by TheDukester
SandChigger wrote:I do seriously believe that she and Byron are going to cyberfook right there in that thread, in front of GAWD and everyone. :shock:

Cyber-love can be a beautiful thing. Don't go ruining it with a chigger-bite.

+++++

(I've got something else in mind for Fantomas, though. Hit me with a PM when you sign on again here, Fanto-ass ... we'll talk).

Re: Problem solved

Posted: 29 Sep 2008 11:13
by Freakzilla
Simon wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
Lundse wrote:Why have you not retracted the erronous statement on DN?

You know it is wrong, it would take you less than a minute to fix it and you are letting it stand there in your name... How is this not lying?


I don't appreciate that very much.

No one here deleted your post, Simon.



If you say so, then I believe you Freak. My apologies to you and anyone I've offended. Trust me, the idea that I messed up on a computer is not at all outside the realm of possibility, like I said before.

It was not my aim to put a black mark on your board. I should have held my tongue until I knew what exactly had happened. I'll make sure to post this retraction and apology in the review thread on DN as well.


Thank you