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    There must have been a BJ against genetic modification also

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    There must have been a BJ against genetic modification also

    Postby Excape Felicity » 17 Jun 2013 17:31

    Sorry if this a re-post, but all the 'breeding' programmes in the Dune Chronicles indicates 2me
    There must have been an anti-GM jihad as well as an anti'machine one.

    Recombinant dna tech was just establishing itself 78-85 and FH did an OK job of incorporating it into Heisenberg and White plague. He must hav made a conscious decision to omit it from Dune.

    Even the chairdong was presumable 'bred'
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    Re: There must have been a BJ against genetic modification also

    Postby Freakzilla » 18 Jun 2013 08:00

    The Bene Tleilax are genetecists.

    I imagine manipulating genes would be difficult without computers. :wink:
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    Re: There must have been a BJ against genetic modification also

    Postby Ampoliros » 18 Jun 2013 13:08

    Also there does seem to be a very strict taboo against any kind of procreation outside of good old fashioned sex. The Bene Gesseritt took generations creating their KH, the Tlielaxu made it in an axoltol tank.
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    Re: There must have been a BJ against genetic modification also

    Postby Freakzilla » 18 Jun 2013 16:33

    I think the BG attach a certain value to the random roll of the genetic dice.
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    Re: There must have been a BJ against genetic modification also

    Postby lotek » 18 Jun 2013 17:52

    The BJ's motto was to never make a machine alike a human mind, so it would make sense to forbid a womb alike a human's. But the BT didn't, really.
    And your example of chairdogs tells us that it's not the same, because for one if the BJ taboo was the same for GM, well Tleilax would have been nuked as soon as the first one was "produced".

    And again, FH didn't omit GM as a concept in Dune, since the Bene Tleilax is there with its knowledge of the language of God as they call it - to create gholas, endless copies of Masters, Face Dancers and.... chairdogs.
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    Re: There must have been a BJ against genetic modification also

    Postby Excape Felicity » 18 Jun 2013 18:23

    Yes how could I forget the Bene Tleilax..

    In essence they do cloning of mammals. The scottish did that in the 90s.

    The KH and Sheanna are often referred to in genetic terms. And yet the most powerful groups in the dUniverse make no use of GM.

    I suspect the mundane truth is that FH did not anticipate how rapidly GM would advance from the mid-80s.

    It would be more fun if there were some kind of BJ-lite fo r GM.
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    Re: There must have been a BJ against genetic modification also

    Postby lotek » 18 Jun 2013 18:34

    There is.
    It's the taboo against artificial procreation.

    I feel that by GM you mean what our world calls it, as in sterile seeds and plants that produce their own insect repellent and such.

    The KH and Sheena (her and humanity as a whole under the coils of Leto II alongside) are not modifications, they are part of genetic breeding through controlled selection, just like our world did with dogs and sheep for example.

    The only thing that could be associated with that it the sandtrout/worm cycle, since it is not clear where they originate, or even if they are plant, animal, or just both and part of that bigger picture, and I vaguely remember theories about being the only presence of alien life in the Dune universe.

    As for being more fun, I dunno, worse people have said this and actually wrote books on that premise. (trouble is they could put Dune and Herbert on the cover).
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    Re: There must have been a BJ against genetic modification also

    Postby Freakzilla » 19 Jun 2013 07:15

    Excape Felicity wrote:Yes how could I forget the Bene Tleilax..

    In essence they do cloning of mammals. The scottish did that in the 90s.


    They are NOT essentially cloners. They speak the "language of God"... genetics. Take the Duncan Idaho gholas/clones for example. Not only did they speed up is reflexes to match that of the 'modern' humans of the era, they also included genes from all(most) of his previous incarnations. They even included the Siona Gene.

    They even altered their own appearance and physiology.
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    Re: There must have been a BJ against genetic modification also

    Postby Excape Felicity » 19 Jun 2013 19:29

    I suppose my question is, why doesn't the BG use GM in the era of book 1 ?

    Granted, it sounds like the BT started cooking in books 5 and 6, which would make sense as I think Genentech launched recombinant insulin around 83.

    Anyway, on reflection I think consensus is there is enough GM in the Chronicles. I am happy to stand corrected!

    Nighty night all.

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    Re: There must have been a BJ against genetic modification also

    Postby Freakzilla » 20 Jun 2013 08:33

    Excape Felicity wrote:I suppose my question is, why doesn't the BG use GM in the era of book 1 ?


    Because there was a taboo against it in the empire.

    So that was it: Chani had not produced a child for him. Someone else, then,
    must do it. Why not Irulan? That was the way Chani's mind worked. And it must be
    done in an act of love because all the Empire avowed strong taboos against
    artificial ways. Chani had come to a Fremen decision.

    ~DM

    and as I mentioned earlier...

    "We've known for two days that she carries my child."
    "But Irulan . . . "
    "By artificial means only. That's my offer."
    The Reverend Mother closed her eyes to hide his face. Damnation! To cast the
    genetic dice in such a way! Loathing boiled in her breast. The teaching of the
    Bene Gesserit, the lessons of the Butlerian Jihad -- all proscribed such an act.
    One did not demean the highest aspirations of humankind. No machine could
    function in the way of a human mind. No word or deed could imply that men might
    be bred on the level of animals.

    ~DM
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    Re: There must have been a BJ against genetic modification also

    Postby Freakzilla » 20 Jun 2013 08:35

    Gaius Helen Mohiam and all the Reverend Mothers within her shuddered. Yes,
    the Tleilaxu did loathsome things. If one let down the barriers to artificial
    insemination, was the next step a Tleilaxu one -- controlled mutation?

    ~DM
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