Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

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Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby Freakzilla » 13 Apr 2009 10:34

I watched this show over the weekend, ... I was listening to it while leading the Army of Norther Virginia to victory in Sid Meier's "Antietam!"... and I heard it mention Frank Herbert's Dune (along with Battlestar Galactica (TOS)) in the context of being part of the media that prepared people to take a more serious look at the book Chariots of the Gods?.

http://www.history.com/shows.do?action= ... eId=428086
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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby Apjak » 13 Apr 2009 10:37

I saw that, and I'm always happy to hear a Dune reference, but I think amost of those theories underestimate our ancient (if a couple thousand years is that ancient) ancestors.
I don't think the author should make the reader do that much work - Kevin J. Anderson
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There’s an unwritten compact between you and the reader. If someone enters a bookstore and sets down hard earned money(energy) for your book, you owe that person some entertainment and as much more as you can give. - Frank Herbert

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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby Freakzilla » 13 Apr 2009 10:51

Apjak wrote:I saw that, and I'm always happy to hear a Dune reference, but I think amost of those theories underestimate our ancient (if a couple thousand years is that ancient) ancestors.


If you consider that we could be desendants of those ancient aliens, our ancient ancestors crossed the void to get here. Considering that, building a pyramid isn't all that impressive.
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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby Rakis » 13 Apr 2009 11:21

Freakzilla wrote:
Apjak wrote:I saw that, and I'm always happy to hear a Dune reference, but I think amost of those theories underestimate our ancient (if a couple thousand years is that ancient) ancestors.


If you consider that we could be desendants of those ancient aliens, our ancient ancestors crossed the void to get here. Considering that, building a pyramid isn't all that impressive.


Yeah, when will they find Adama's Raptor? :wink:
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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby Redstar » 13 Apr 2009 12:48

I'm sure if you look in the Scrolls you'll find out what really happened, Apjack.

Always nice to hear a reference, even if it's not the best.

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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby SandChigger » 13 Apr 2009 13:13

A bit off-topic, but has anyone else noticed an increase in non-critical programs dealing with the supernatural, paranormal and religion on the History Channel, Discovery, and National Geographic? Or is it just a problem with the Japanese versions thereof which I get?

The ones I find especially objectionable are those presenting Biblical content as completely factual... :twisted:
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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby Omphalos » 13 Apr 2009 13:20

SandChigger wrote:A bit off-topic, but has anyone else noticed an increase in non-critical programs dealing with the supernatural, paranormal and religion on the History Channel, Discovery, and National Geographic? Or is it just a problem with the Japanese versions thereof which I get?

The ones I find especially objectionable are those presenting Biblical content as completely factual... :twisted:


Dude, its been like that for years over here. Catch up, man! :D

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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby Freakzilla » 13 Apr 2009 13:40

SandChigger wrote:A bit off-topic, but has anyone else noticed an increase in non-critical programs dealing with the supernatural, paranormal and religion on the History Channel, Discovery, and National Geographic? Or is it just a problem with the Japanese versions thereof which I get?

The ones I find especially objectionable are those presenting Biblical content as completely factual... :twisted:


I wouldn't say they're presenting biblical stories as fact but attempting to give biblical events some credibility based on scientific evidence.
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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby Rakis » 13 Apr 2009 14:54

Omphalos wrote:
SandChigger wrote:A bit off-topic, but has anyone else noticed an increase in non-critical programs dealing with the supernatural, paranormal and religion on the History Channel, Discovery, and National Geographic? Or is it just a problem with the Japanese versions thereof which I get?

The ones I find especially objectionable are those presenting Biblical content as completely factual... :twisted:


Dude, its been like that for years over here. Catch up, man! :D


I agree...when you have reality shows involving ghost hunters, you know it's mainstream now...
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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby Omphalos » 13 Apr 2009 15:43

Freakzilla wrote:
SandChigger wrote:A bit off-topic, but has anyone else noticed an increase in non-critical programs dealing with the supernatural, paranormal and religion on the History Channel, Discovery, and National Geographic? Or is it just a problem with the Japanese versions thereof which I get?

The ones I find especially objectionable are those presenting Biblical content as completely factual... :twisted:


I wouldn't say they're presenting biblical stories as fact but attempting to give biblical events some credibility based on scientific evidence.


Oh, sure they are. They may analyze things, but then they open the show by saying something like "Moses fled Pharoah, and saved his people," instead of "The Bible says..." Its subtle, and its probably lazy, but its there.

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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby Freakzilla » 13 Apr 2009 16:04

Omphalos wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
SandChigger wrote:A bit off-topic, but has anyone else noticed an increase in non-critical programs dealing with the supernatural, paranormal and religion on the History Channel, Discovery, and National Geographic? Or is it just a problem with the Japanese versions thereof which I get?

The ones I find especially objectionable are those presenting Biblical content as completely factual... :twisted:


I wouldn't say they're presenting biblical stories as fact but attempting to give biblical events some credibility based on scientific evidence.


Oh, sure they are. They may analyze things, but then they open the show by saying something like "Moses fled Pharoah, and saved his people," instead of "The Bible says..." Its subtle, and its probably lazy, but its there.


True...

Speaking of, they did a show on the Exodus. There is some archeaological evidence in the form of hyroglyphics (sp?).

One thing they did make clear in the "Ancient Aliens" show though, was how old gods tend to become the demons in new religions and that the way all cultures share the same creation/flood/etc. myths suggests that there was some basis in fact for those events. These things were so important to the oral history that they were some of the first things to ever be written down.

I highly recommend Isaac Asimov's Guide to the Bible:

http://www.amazon.com/Asimovs-Guide-Bib ... 0517209772

***** The writings explained from a historical perspective, September 13, 2001
By Charles Ashbacher "(cashbacher@yahoo.com)" (Marion, Iowa United States(cashbacher@yahoo.com))(TOP 50 REVIEWER)

The Christian bible is a fascinating document, and the contents are open to a vast array of interpretations. In this book, Isaac Asimov examines it from a historical perspective. Despite the enormous attention that it has received from scholars of all types, the authorship of many of the sections has not been established, and Asimov makes that very clear. What is the most fascinating aspect is the interpretation of some of the passages based on the social and political conditions of the time. Whatever you may think about the early leaders of the Christian church, one fact remains very clear. They managed to take a small movement and turn it into an international one that survived fierce persecution by the Roman Empire, the greatest and most long-lived political power the world has ever seen. This is most impressive, and those who accept the Christian religion will find Asimov's descriptions supportive of their beliefs, even though he was a secular humanist.
A book that describes the beginnings and growth of a powerful institution that outlived and outgrew all others that tried to destroy it, as a popular record of the history of the movement it has no equal.
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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby SandChigger » 13 Apr 2009 21:09

Freakzilla wrote:I wouldn't say they're presenting biblical stories as fact but attempting to give biblical events some credibility based on scientific evidence.

I don't mind them presenting scientific/archeological evidence supporting the historical nature of certain elements in the Bible, etc. But I do have a problem with something like "We have established that this is the city of Jericho mentioned in the Old Testament. This is where Joshua blew the walls down."

Sure, Jericho was real. That doesn't mean the trumpet story is true. Likewise with the Flood. So there was a massive flood in Mesopotamia that affected so many people over such a large area that they remembered it for generations. People try to find meaning for the terrible things that happen; why not divine retribution. But there was no flood that covered all the lands of the Earth. And looking for an ark in the mountains is a silly waste of time and money. :roll:

Back in January or February one of the three channels (I think it was Discovery) was showing a series on malevolent hauntings and demonic possession. (I can't remember the program title.) All of the episodes ended with some resolution of the problem, either through an exorcism performed by a Roman Catholic priest or Wiccan banishing or whatever, but there was ZERO scientific analysis or explanation of what had been reported (like mass hysteria, etc).

I guess I've just been noticing all this more lately and been disappointed by it.... :(

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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby Freakzilla » 14 Apr 2009 06:52

Believe it or not, there was a show on the Garden of Eden that same night.

First of all, they said that the story was a metaphor for man's transition from hunter/gatherer to farmer. Once you learn agriculture you can't go back to the garden. They also point out that these flood myths coincide with the sea levels rising from the melting glaciers from the recent end of the last ice age. They also point out that a similar geological feature between the Medeteranian and Black Sea.
So there would have been at least two, huge floods in fairly close proximity.

There is a show called Battleplan, recently they did Moses and Joshua.
I don't remember them saying anything about Jericho, the trumpets cause the walls to fall is a bit tough to swallow. I suppose there could have been an earthquake.

But you're right, there are shows where they assume the story is true, then try to prove it.
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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby SandChigger » 14 Apr 2009 09:43

How cool would it be if the Flood stories were actually about the flooding of the Mediterranean basin instead of just a big rain on the Tigris and Euphrates? :D

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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby Freakzilla » 14 Apr 2009 10:29

SandChigger wrote:How cool would it be if the Flood stories were actually about the flooding of the Mediterranean basin instead of just a big rain on the Tigris and Euphrates? :D


I've seen mention of the Gibralter Isthmus breaking and flooding the Med basin, for some reason scientists seemed to dismiss that one but I can't remember why. I would think that would be much more memorable than the Persian Gulf or Black Sea flood.

Hell, maybe they all happened around the same time?

"The Great Deluge" is part of the storyline in Julian May's Saga of Pliociene Exile. I can't tell more, it'd spoil it.
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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby SandChigger » 14 Apr 2009 10:39

Might have something to do with the date when they think it happened? I don't remember any estimates right off hand....

:?:

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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby Freakzilla » 14 Apr 2009 10:43

Supposedly the Persian Gulf and Black Sea floods where catastrophic. The valleys on the land side were protected by mountains until the rising sea found a pass, then once water started to trickle through it erroded the pass until it became a huge plume.

I think one figure I hear for the Black Sea was 50 cubic km per day of water flowing in.
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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby cmsahe » 13 May 2009 02:13

Apjak wrote:I saw that, and I'm always happy to hear a Dune reference, but I think amost of those theories underestimate our ancient (if a couple thousand years is that ancient) ancestors.

Zahi Hawass (Secretary General of the Supreme Council of Antiquities of Egypt) has repeated ad nauseum that the proponents of those theories(Graham Hancock, Erich Von Däniken, i.e.) are racists, they all are anglosaxon people who cannot conceive that short brown skinned people had built monolithic structures in Egypt, South America and the South Pacific.

P.S. My favorite Dune reference is the small "worm sign" in that episode of Spongebob squarepants when he and Sandy are hunting dowm an alaskan bull worm.
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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby cmsahe » 13 May 2009 02:15

SandChigger wrote:A bit off-topic, but has anyone else noticed an increase in non-critical programs dealing with the supernatural, paranormal and religion on the History Channel, Discovery, and National Geographic? Or is it just a problem with the Japanese versions thereof which I get?

The ones I find especially objectionable are those presenting Biblical content as completely factual... :twisted:
Ditto for me here in Mexico!
Only the books written by Frank Herbert are canon.


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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby cmsahe » 13 May 2009 02:18

Omphalos wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:
SandChigger wrote:A bit off-topic, but has anyone else noticed an increase in non-critical programs dealing with the supernatural, paranormal and religion on the History Channel, Discovery, and National Geographic? Or is it just a problem with the Japanese versions thereof which I get?

The ones I find especially objectionable are those presenting Biblical content as completely factual... :twisted:


I wouldn't say they're presenting biblical stories as fact but attempting to give biblical events some credibility based on scientific evidence.


Oh, sure they are. They may analyze things, but then they open the show by saying something like "Moses fled Pharoah, and saved his people," instead of "The Bible says..." Its subtle, and its probably lazy, but its there.
For me any attempt to validate the stories of the Bible is like if archeologists went hunting for evidence on King Arthur or Robin Hood (things that they have done)
Only the books written by Frank Herbert are canon.


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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby SandChigger » 13 May 2009 04:04

I watched another one last night with what's-his-name, Josh Bernstein? About the Flood really being tsunami resulting from the collapse of the cone of the volcano Mount Etna (in Sicily?). So he goes to Israel and they find some bones at an underwater site that would have been above water at the time in question. He interviews some expert (in Cyprus, IIRC) who told him that prehistoric people were capable of building ships that could carry animals. And suddenly we've got Noah's Ark. Ole Josh was flying a bit loose and furious with the logic on that one.

(sigh) It's a wonder we're not back living in caves already. :roll:

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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby Freakzilla » 13 May 2009 08:40

SandChigger wrote:I watched another one last night with what's-his-name, Josh Bernstein? About the Flood really being tsunami resulting from the collapse of the cone of the volcano Mount Etna (in Sicily?). So he goes to Israel and they find some bones at an underwater site that would have been above water at the time in question. He interviews some expert (in Cyprus, IIRC) who told him that prehistoric people were capable of building ships that could carry animals. And suddenly we've got Noah's Ark. Ole Josh was flying a bit loose and furious with the logic on that one.

(sigh) It's a wonder we're not back living in caves already. :roll:


Is it just me or does that guy seem dumber than the box the rocks came in?
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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby SandChigger » 13 May 2009 16:18

I haven't watched much of him (why I wasn't really sure about the name, didn't bother checking), but if that show was any indication, yeah, he must be shtupping a producer or someone.

Give me BEAR EATING SNEKES!! :lol:

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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby Omphalos » 13 May 2009 17:47

SandChigger wrote:I haven't watched much of him (why I wasn't really sure about the name, didn't bother checking), but if that show was any indication, yeah, he must be shtupping a producer or someone.

Give me BEAR EATING SNEKES!! :lol:


I saw one of those wild-men eat an apple chunk out of a pile of bear shit the other day. Dont think Ill be tuning back in.

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Re: Dune mentioned in "Ancient Aliens" on History Channel

Postby Tleszer » 13 May 2009 18:53

Omphalos wrote:
SandChigger wrote:I haven't watched much of him (why I wasn't really sure about the name, didn't bother checking), but if that show was any indication, yeah, he must be shtupping a producer or someone.

Give me BEAR EATING SNEKES!! :lol:


I saw one of those wild-men eat an apple chunk out of a pile of bear shit the other day. Dont think Ill be tuning back in.

Prude. :D
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