Simon's Sketches

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    The films, miniseries, music, video games, etc...

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SandChigger
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Postby SandChigger » 22 Jan 2009 13:50

Freakzilla wrote:It appeared to me that the alien took part of the DNA from whatever host it gestated in.

And the one in the Alien vs Predator movie (Is there more than one now? I forget...anyway, the one where they fight it out in the Antarctic?), that pops out of the dead(?) Predator as the Predator ship is leaving Earth, had a cute little Predator face. :D

:roll:
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

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Freakzilla
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Postby Freakzilla » 22 Jan 2009 13:54

SandChigger wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:It appeared to me that the alien took part of the DNA from whatever host it gestated in.

And the one in the Alien vs Predator movie (Is there more than one now? I forget...anyway, the one where they fight it out in the Antarctic?), that pops out of the dead(?) Predator as the Predator ship is leaving Earth, had a cute little Predator face. :D

:roll:


I have not seen AVP, sounded stupid. For some reason the crossover themes don't thrill me.

But I guess thats support my thoeory. :D
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SandChigger
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Postby SandChigger » 22 Jan 2009 14:56

"Sounded stupid" ... TOTAL AGREEMENT! That's what I expected, and it didn't disappoint! :lol:

But ... I am often amazed at the things I will watch when I just want to unwind and there's nothing else on. (There's only so many times you can watch reruns of Myth Busters or Sachiko Hoshizawa making cheese harumaki spring rolls without your head exploding, after all. :P )
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Freakzilla
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Postby Freakzilla » 22 Jan 2009 14:58

SandChigger wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:I can't imagine there would be much need to clip your nails if you spend your life floating in a tank of spice gas. On the contrary, that spice gas probably gives you lots of boogers and the long nails would come in handy.

Who cleans the inside of the glass in those tanks?

^^^ Spends WAY too much time with people under 10 years of age. :lol:


We childproofed the house but they still keep getting in! I try to hide in the basement but they find me there too.

:cry:
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Postby GamePlayer » 22 Jan 2009 17:39

SandChigger wrote:YES! That's it! I knew it reminded me of something familiar but I just couldn't place it. This is why you are DA FILM MAN! :D

FH also described a "flap of a nose", not a gaping nasal hole. :roll:

Feh.


LOL! Great minds, and all that.
Mmmmm, gaping hole...

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Freakzilla wrote:We childproofed the house but they still keep getting in! I try to hide in the basement but they find me there too.

:cry:


Yea, the dog-alien was a great idea. Just too bad the execution of the rest of the film wasn't such a great idea :(

Just get rid of some of those dead bodies in the trunk of your pimp-mobile and you can hide them all in there. My Movie-Sense is tingling and tells me pigs is the way to go :)

"Then I hear the best thing to do is feed them to pigs. You got to starve the pigs for a few days, then the sight of a chopped-up body will look like curry to a pisshead. You gotta shave the heads of your victims, and pull the teeth out for the sake of the piggies' digestion. You could do this afterwards, of course, but you don't want to go sievin' through pig shit, now do you? They will go through bone like butter. You need at least sixteen pigs to finish the job in one sitting, so be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm. They will go through a body that weighs 200 pounds in about eight minutes. That means that a single pig can consume two pounds of uncooked flesh every minute. Hence the expression, "as greedy as a pig"."

:laughing:
"They can chew you up, but they gotta spit you out."

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Postby EsperandoAGodot » 22 Jan 2009 20:23

Superartist's navigator looks cool, but it doesn't look like a navigator....

...what I'm more interested in, where the navigators are concerned, is the bit about breeding...they should, genetically, be human, so what's going on with their gonads?
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Postby Simon » 22 Jan 2009 20:39

SandChigger wrote:Simon's is definitely the better of the two. (Will have to check for any mention of the long claw-like nails, though.)

I think superartist's problem is that he sees the Navigators as monsters in some way. They weren't.

They may have been misshapen, even repulsively so, but they were still human beings gifted with incredible mathematical skills and prescience.

They weren't starving zombie mummies. :roll:


The fingers weren't supposed to be claws or nails, more like elongated bone under the skin. I sort of imagine Navigators with long slender fingers which accentuate their webbed hands.

On that note, I generally tend to think of them as elongated, as an effect of living/continually mutating in zero g. I've never thought of a Navigator as "fat" or "bunched up".

In regards to SuperArtist's take: I really liked the eyes! Very cool. I sort of thought of their eyes as tiny and atrophied due to Navigators not really needing them to "see".

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Postby SandChigger » 22 Jan 2009 21:40

Tiny (or smaller) would agree with FH's description, but they would have to be better than normal to see through the gas, no?

You're not imagining them as using prescience to get around like Paul did after the stone burner, are you?
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby EsperandoAGodot » 22 Jan 2009 23:31

Well why not?

Anyway, it's also possible that their eyes aren't smaller than human eyes, just smaller in relation to the rest of their bodies.
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Postby SandChigger » 23 Jan 2009 04:25

EsperandoAGodot wrote:Well why not?

Well, I guess for the simple reason that if the average Navigator can do that trick, too, and does it often enough that their real eyes atrophy, then there wasn't really anything special about Paul doing it when he was blinded, no?

I don't believe Navigators are as strong as Paul or that their type of prescience would allow them that range of "vision".
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby DuneFishUK » 23 Jan 2009 13:39

What would navigators have to look at? The actual act of navigation isn't a visual one, and I can't imagine they get out much beyond that.

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Postby Freakzilla » 23 Jan 2009 13:49

Scytale looked at the Guild envoy. Edric swam in a container of orange gas
only a few paces away. His container sat in the center of the transparent dome
which the Bene Gesserit had built for this meeting. The Guildsman was an
elongated figure, vaguely humanoid with finned feet and hugely fanned membranous
hands -- a fish in a strange sea. His tank's vents emitted a pale orange cloud
rich with the smell of the geriatric spice, melange.

~Dune Messiah
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Postby Omphalos » 23 Jan 2009 14:22

I think he is asking if Guild Navigators would use their visual senses during course plotting, or if they would do the job entirely in their heads.

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Postby Freakzilla » 23 Jan 2009 14:30

I was just commenting on the "elongated" bit. But that does make sense about the eyes. I imagine they would have at least a basic telescope on board to verify where they were, so their eyesight would have to be at least as good as Galileo's.

:wink:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090122/od_nm/us_galileo_1
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Postby DuneFishUK » 23 Jan 2009 19:05

Hmm, not thinking this through today :P

Prescience would play a role, but would there also be a mathematical/scientific element - one that relies on objective data, in there too. So yes. Eyes would probably be useful.

(That article is quite interesting :))

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Postby SandChigger » 23 Jan 2009 20:10

A Navigator isn't plotting "courses" and "looking ahead" to see if his ship arrives and survives 24/7/52. Whatever their normal environment—out of their tanks—is like on their Heighliners, they surely have to use their eyes to get around.

There's nothing to indicate that they were blind, or that they used prescience just to move around their environment, or that they had developed some sort of sound-based positioning capability like bats. To me that means that their eyes, however small and "rodent-like", were still functional. YMMV.
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby DuneFishUK » 23 Jan 2009 20:23

They will have some off-time - obviously, but I was under the impression that navigators were "Born in space and living out their lives in tanks of melange gas" ? [*copying from the other thread :P]

But yes, they do have eyes - small and dark would fit the visual bill. But as for their daily routine... Seeing as they are so adapted to a specialised purpose, I'm not so sure.

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Postby SandChigger » 23 Jan 2009 20:58

Good point.

So if they're always in the same confined space, they'd get to know where everything was by touch. There's no mention of them using computers so they keep all the data they need and do all their calculations in their heads. Who needs eyes?

Hurray for the artistic vision. :roll:
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Sole Man » 23 Jan 2009 21:02

Still want to some damn Sandworms.

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Postby Simon » 24 Jan 2009 09:49

SandChigger wrote:Tiny (or smaller) would agree with FH's description, but they would have to be better than normal to see through the gas, no?


That's what I thought (FH's description). Still good point, small or large they would indeed have to be pretty sharp sighted to see through the gas and interact with people. (which of course Edrik does quite often during DM.)

SandChigger wrote:You're not imagining them as using prescience to get around like Paul did after the stone burner, are you?


No,no, not like that.

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Postby Simon » 24 Jan 2009 09:53

DuneFishUK wrote:What would navigators have to look at? The actual act of navigation isn't a visual one, and I can't imagine they get out much beyond that.


I was under the impression that most didn't really interact with people, and that perhaps Navigators like Edrik were special cases, navigators who preserved certain human elements in order to at very least communicate their will to their human counter parts within the Guild.

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Re: On Simon's art

Postby Simon » 24 Jan 2009 09:59

Sole Man wrote:Still want to some damn Sandworms.


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W a i t
for it...

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Postby EsperandoAGodot » 24 Jan 2009 16:28

SandChigger wrote:
EsperandoAGodot wrote:Well why not?

Well, I guess for the simple reason that if the average Navigator can do that trick, too, and does it often enough that their real eyes atrophy, then there wasn't really anything special about Paul doing it when he was blinded, no?

Well except that Paul did not have to become a mutated fish man swimming constantly in spice gas in order to achieve it.
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Postby SandChigger » 24 Jan 2009 19:47

We've been round this one before, IIRC, but I don't believe there's anything in the books that even remotely allude to the Navigators having such an ability or making use of it.

Non-mention does not necessarily mean non-existence, but assumption of existence should at least require some evidence.
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby EsperandoAGodot » 24 Jan 2009 22:24

No assumption, here, just saying it doesn't seem ridiculous to me or outside the realm of possibility.
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