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Can anyone compare Matrix and Avatar to Dune?

Posted: 29 Oct 2010 07:41
by HarryCanyon
I mean James Cameron and The Wachowski Brothers are huge fans of Herbert's novels, It's true as Cameron stated he is a fan of Herbert's novels as he used them as one of the inspirations for Avatar.

You can see in The Matrix it's nearly the same thing as Dune! you can tell that Neo and Paul are both outcasts to become messiahs from a prophecy, the Oracle is like the grand Reverend Mother, Morpheus is like Gurney and Duncan Idaho in one body, Trinity is like Chani, the energy is like the Melenge in which to control a universe, Agent Smith is like Baron and the Harkonnens all rolled in many bodies, both Neo and Paul get powers, and that sort of thing.

As for Avatar, you can tell there are themes. Outcast dude with Sully who is on this exotic planet, falls in love with native girl, joins up with rebellous tribes, tames the beasts, stops corporations, the president of the Unorbtium company is like the Baron while the Colnel is like Feye, both Jake Sully and Paul are messiahs, fighting for a precious substance and that sort of thing.

I'm a fan of both Matrix and Avatar including Dune, so i love how they respect Dune.

Re: Can anyone compare Matrix and Avatar to Dune?

Posted: 29 Oct 2010 08:15
by SandRider
the first thing that popped into my mind
was Spinrad's "Intro to Dune"

Norman Spinrad wrote:For what we have here in outline is Frank Herbert's version of what Joseph Campbell argues is the basic human story in his landmark work of mythic analysis and literary comparative cultural anthropology, THE HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES.

The Hero (Paul) is dispossessed of his rightful heritage (Leto's throne) by the forces of evil (the Harkonnens) and must flee into the wilderness(the Arakeen desert). There he encounters his spiritual guide and master who educates him in mystical and practical lore. Interestingly enough, as we shall see later, in DUNE, Herbert divides this archetype into three masters, one for each level of knowledge: Duncan Idaho, his warrior sensei; the Mentat Thufir Hawat, his mentor in things tactical and intellectual; and his mother the Bene Gesserit adept Jessica, his guide to the things of the spirit and mystical vision.

There in the primal wilderness he also undergoes spiritual and physical testing and initiations, proves his worth, and gathers loyal followers and allies (the Fremen).

He descends into the Underworld, the place of the dead, the world of spiritual and moral darkness, where he undergoes the ultimate testing, triumphs, and returns to the world of men as the liberating Lightbringer.

Whether this is the main human template myth may be arguable, whether this is even the main Western mythic template somewhat less arguable, but that this generalized tale of The Hero With a Thousand Faces is the structure and inner reality of everything from the New Testament to Tarzan, from THE STARS MY DESTINATION to SIDDHARTHA, from the various tellings and retellings of the King Arthur cycle to the myths of Gilgamesh and Barbarossa, to endless samurai epics and much of Shakespeare, as well as DUNE, certainly is not.

So DUNE's superficially simple and derivative story line is not a cliche but the retelling of one of humanity's deepest and most powerful myths. Deep and powerful because it is the story of ourselves as we would like to be. Our adolescent selves identify with the young Paul because we all, one way or another, feel deprived of our rightful place at the center of the world. We all seek to escape from the usurping forces of repression into the wilderness of self-discovery where we will perform feats that will allow us to return to the seat of power and triumphantly confront the oppressors as the darling of destiny.


other sections of this essay are also relevant ...
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1112&start=0

Re: Can anyone compare Matrix and Avatar to Dune?

Posted: 10 Nov 2010 13:36
by HarryCanyon
ANd do you think both Neo and Jake Sully are the same as Paul? and do you think Unorbtanium is the same as Melgenge?

Which is a more beautiful planet? Calaihan or Pandora?

Re: Can anyone compare Matrix and Avatar to Dune?

Posted: 10 Nov 2010 13:38
by Omphalos
WTF?

Re: Can anyone compare Matrix and Avatar to Dune?

Posted: 10 Nov 2010 13:48
by DuneFishUK
Erm, yes the similarities are blatantly obvious - an outsider being taken in by the local peoples, becoming their hero and leading them to freedom. It's a standard story and FH didn't invent it.

But the differences are the important bit - and key to what Dune is actually about. Paul is not a hero and his actions had consequences.

Re: Can anyone compare Matrix and Avatar to Dune?

Posted: 10 Nov 2010 14:12
by merkin muffley
HarryCanyon wrote:ANd do you think both Neo and Jake Sully are the same as Paul? and do you think Unorbtanium is the same as Melgenge?

Which is a more beautiful planet? Calaihan or Pandora?



Calaihan is nice place to visit, but they don't have Unorbtanium or Melgenge.

Re: Can anyone compare Matrix and Avatar to Dune?

Posted: 10 Nov 2010 14:24
by SandRider
nevermind that bullshit, where'd you get this "4-part" Dune movie thing ?

Re: Can anyone compare Matrix and Avatar to Dune?

Posted: 10 Nov 2010 17:55
by Omphalos
On Pandora the mengele is silver, not blue.

Re: Can anyone compare Matrix and Avatar to Dune?

Posted: 10 Nov 2010 18:05
by Ampoliros
James Cameron's motivation for Avatard was simple:
Image

And if he needed to copy and paste the plot points from classic sci-fi then it saved more time for the effects.

At least The Matrix tried to do a decent cyberpunk story that lasted for 1.75 movies.

Re: Can anyone compare Matrix and Avatar to Dune?

Posted: 10 Nov 2010 23:31
by Kojiro
Pandora is in the Jesus Incident. So is the group consciousness named Avata.

Re: Can anyone compare Matrix and Avatar to Dune?

Posted: 12 Nov 2010 08:35
by lotek
Can anyone compare Matrix and Avatar to Dune?


anyone can compare anything to anything...
the question is...

Is it relevant ?

Re: Can anyone compare Matrix and Avatar to Dune?

Posted: 15 Nov 2010 12:24
by TheDukester
HarryCanyon wrote:Which is a more beautiful planet? Calaihan or Pandora?

If a tree in a forest falls down, what is the sound of one hand clapping?

Re: Can anyone compare Matrix and Avatar to Dune?

Posted: 15 Nov 2010 15:23
by inhuien
TheDukester wrote:
HarryCanyon wrote:Which is a more beautiful planet? Calaihan or Pandora?

If a tree in a forest falls down, what is the sound of one hand clapping?

Like sand, that's deep.

Re: Can anyone compare Matrix and Avatar to Dune?

Posted: 15 Nov 2010 16:26
by lotek
TheDukester wrote:
HarryCanyon wrote:Which is a more beautiful planet? Calaihan or Pandora?

If a tree in a forest falls down, what is the sound of one hand clapping?


bart simpson had the answer to that one :)