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    Dune III: To Lead an Army (Just for Fun Brainstorming)

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    Dune III: To Lead an Army (Just for Fun Brainstorming)

    Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 09 Aug 2013 01:40

    I see talk about wanting a DUNE RTS again, or a RTT (Real Time Tactics). I've been dabbling in some classic RTS/RTT like Shiny Entertainment's Sacrifice and Bungie's Myth: The Fallen Lords, and I've been thinking about how the classic DUNE 2 franchise could be revived again. I've played the SEGA port Dune: The Battle For Arrakis, the original via DOSbox Dune 2: The Building of Dynasty, Dune 2000, and a little big of the first Dune game. I've yet to get and play Emperor, and I've seen only seen the game adaptation of the Sci-Fi channel miniseries via You Tube (they just did not try on that game, despite its citing Metal Gear Solid as inspiration for its gameplay!!!!). Since Dune 2 is set in an alternate universe of Herbert's Dune (a la Red Alert being set in an alternate Cold War timeline), a sequel should take that alternate reality approach even further. Just for fun, here's a brainstorm for my ideal Dune III.

    It would be a sequel to the first Dune game, where the events of the novel take a different turn when Mua'dib dies and with him House Atreides. House Harkonnen has risen up again with a vengeance, and has returned to Arrakis with brute force against the demoralized yet still strong Fremen. The Emperor has gone into hiding, and the majority of the Landsraad are out of commission due to having heavy Harkonnen forces in each of their worlds. The few factions which are not quite so easily pacified are the Bene Gesserit, the Tleilaxu, and the Fremen. The Spacing Guild, though put under direct pressure by the Harkonnens, have assembled a secret army within their innermost secret ranks, and are waiting for the right moment to strike. The Bene Gesserit have also assembled a secret army of assassin women trained in the Weirding Way and other abilities, as well as a personal navy. The Tleilaxu have engineered all manner of deadly freaks with their own unique abilities next to Face Dancers. The Emperor is somewhere stranded on another harsh planet, different from Salusa Secundas, to quickly train and toughen more Sardaukar. The Fremen are being lead by Chani, who has been hardened since the death of Mua'dib, and has changed into a formidable commander and chieftain. Ultimately, the new war in Arrakis would either bring back the old regime or bring about a new regime. Arrakis is the wild card to determine who leads....

    So, the game would have:
    *A campaign story mode akin to StarCraft's. The order of the campaigns would be House Harkonnen, The Bene Gesserit, The Tleilaxu, House Corrino, The Spacing Guild, and The Fremen.
    *The graphics of the first game, but with ability to select more units and make group numbers.
    *Simplify the RTS process to spice gathering and some building.
    *Employ fighting formations for units.
    *Employ hero units.
    *Integrate a Dungeon Keeper mode where a single unit is directed via FPS mode.
    *Switches to first person adventure mode between missions a la the first Dune game.
    *Each faction has their own unique units, buildings, abilities, and are not clones of each other.
    *Instead of training soldiers, they are summoned a la Shiny Entertainment's Sacrifice by means of Spice kilo units. For higher up units, Spice unit requirement increases. The units arrive much more quickly as a result of this system.
    *Bene Gesserit rely on stealth and subterfuge; the Harkonnens rely on brute force, the Tleilaxu rely on craftiness and twisted tactics; the Corrinos rely on wealth and effective fighting forces; the Guild on their mutant abilities and space folding technology; the Fremen on terrain, guerrilla war tactics, tough fighters, and worms.

    So what I'd want to do enhance Dune 2 with new gameplay, more unit variation, more reliance on strategy and formations, instant combat, more story, and adventure game elements.

    As I said, I'm just brainstorming for fun, but it might a good installment in the series. It would take liberties with Herbert's universe, as did Dune 2, though the original Dune novel could still be used as reference for how Dune 3's alternate timeline has changed the universe of Dune.
    '...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
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    Re: Dune III: To Lead an Army (Just for Fun Brainstorming)

    Postby Naïve mind » 09 Aug 2013 15:36

    Hmm, so this would be a continuation of Cryo's Dune then, not something true to the book? Hm, I could appreciate the atmosphere of that game, but the RTS aspects of it sucked balls.
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    Re: Dune III: To Lead an Army (Just for Fun Brainstorming)

    Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 09 Aug 2013 16:15

    Naïve mind wrote:Hmm, so this would be a continuation of Cryo's Dune then, not something true to the book? Hm, I could appreciate the atmosphere of that game, but the RTS aspects of it sucked balls.


    Agreed. Cryo's Dune's departure from the book was weird, and so was Westwood's Dune 2. Still, Cryo's alterations to the Dune universe are helpful for my planned sequel, because the Baron and his nephews presumably survive. What I have in mind is essentially true to the events for the first book: it's just that it takes a different direction from Dune Messiah.

    I also agree that Dune II's RTS aspects can be frustrating (I remember as the Atreides when I fought against the Ordos, Harkonnens, and those damn unpredictable atomic warheads). That's why I'd want to incorporate elements from RTSs which simplify the micromanagement and get straight to the point. Sacrifice and Myth have those qualities. Dungeon Keeper counts if you transfer your strongest creatures to the next level.

    I'm curious how you would do it, Naive Mind. I admire your Dunish intellect and your way of thinking.
    '...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
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    Re: Dune III: To Lead an Army (Just for Fun Brainstorming)

    Postby Naïve mind » 10 Aug 2013 02:37

    Well, hm, thanks for the flattery.

    I like your idea very much, but it feels a bit untrue to simplify resource management when the theme of the book is about resource management. It contrasts the Harkonnens and Atreides (aristocrats who desire power now, and damn the future generations) with organisations that carefully manage their niche in the economic/political ecosystem (The Emperor, the Bene Gesserit, the Guild) and a group deeply in tune with the planet's ecosystem (the Fremen).

    You could translate that into game mechanics by giving the Harkonnen a big lump sum of resources at the beginning, but relatively poor mining capabilities. Give them expensive (but very effective) offensive units. Playing as Harkonnen would mean striking early whenever possible.

    By contrast, the Fremen would start poor, stay poor, but would have excellent staying power.

    The other factions would sit somewhere in between.

    The main resource on Arrakis should be water, not spice. I always thought the second Dune game got that wrong.
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    Re: Dune III: To Lead an Army (Just for Fun Brainstorming)

    Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 10 Aug 2013 21:50

    Agreed. The resource management will still be there. Just the rest of the technical branch part of the gameplay should be simplified.

    I think I should make water the main resource of importance to Dune III. Each soldier, depending on their level, would be summoned instantly by means of water liters. The spice kilos would be used to enable access and summon more advanced equipment, as well as to make alliances and summon allied units.

    Yes, water makes sense as a main practical resource.
    '...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
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    Re: Dune III: To Lead an Army (Just for Fun Brainstorming)

    Postby Naïve mind » 11 Aug 2013 16:11

    Maybe the game would make better use of terrain than most current RTSes. For some reason, I keep picturing Fremen troops waiting to ambush behind a sand dune, and it would be really cool if that were possible.
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    Re: Dune III: To Lead an Army (Just for Fun Brainstorming)

    Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 20 Nov 2013 02:57

    Naïve mind wrote:Maybe the game would make better use of terrain than most current RTSes. For some reason, I keep picturing Fremen troops waiting to ambush behind a sand dune, and it would be really cool if that were possible.


    I know it took me a long time to respond, but that's exactly how I visualize them too. :D

    I mean, if you're gonna have Fremen as units in an RTS, they should fight like Dark Templars mixed with Arab raiders. Not groups of three Heavy Infantry units who just charge at the turrets and die meaninglessly.
    I want to see Fremen trained in the Weirding Way, gifted with camouflage and speed, on worms and on foot, with the sharpest chrysknives and strongest projectile weapons, swarming the Harkonnens in the graphics of Dune II. I just need the right kind of game designing engine, like Game Maker or something else. I guess I need to learn how to do Game Maker, because some of the best retro-games I've played were done on that engine. Heard of Hotline Miami? That was done on Game Maker, along with other cool retro Indie games like Poacher, Shotgun Ninja, Mondo Medicals, Stench Mechanics, etc.
    '...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
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    Re: Dune III: To Lead an Army (Just for Fun Brainstorming)

    Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 20 Nov 2013 03:02

    And the better use of terrain would also be a good addition. Sacrifice and Myth: The Fallen Lords each demonstrated how the use of terrain is important while in battle. I'd like to be able to render the rolling sand dunes and high rocks in Dune II's graphics.
    '...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
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