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    BCS. Bowl Championship Series. Bring it.

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    BCS. Bowl Championship Series. Bring it.

    Postby Crysknife » 08 Dec 2008 22:38

    It's BCS time. State your allegiances and bring the trash....it's on!

    And if I may SandRider:

    We can discuss Utah's arguments for a shot at a national championship bid, or why on earth you think the Utes could play with the Big Boys of the SEC or Big 12 South in later posts, but first:

    Since you support a playoff system, may I please hear
    your detailed planned as to how to carry this out ?


    Let's do this. First off, what you fail to realize is that Utah IS one of the big boys. 95% of all BCS conference teams could only dream of being as prominent as the Utes in D1 college football.....check that, in football OR basketball. Not to mention our gymnastics which has more national championships than any other school.....ever.

    But speaking of gymnastics, which I don't like to, doesn't your argument put D1 college football on par with a system no better than figure skating and American Idol? When you don't work it out on the field, doesn't it become a beauty pageant rather than a true competition like the NCAA basketball tourney? You got it. Ask OU in 06 if Boise was supposed to get in the BCS. Ask Pitt in 04 if they enjoyed their ass whooping by Utah, which BTW, broke the BCS when the rules were so stacked against the so called mid-majors that the Presidents of the BCS shit their pants when they actually busted in. Why should it be fair to hold D1 conferences back when it is becoming abundantly clear that we have and always will be able to play with the best? You want a true NC then get a playoff. Could the 04 Utes have done it? Hell, we'll never know now will we. could Boise have done it? I know it would have been fun to at least see.

    So Hawaii got their ass handed to them. You can't win them all, but they did deserve to be there. You can't let them in and then say "see I told you so" when they lose because it goes both ways. Utah and Boise...."see I told you so."

    Utah is now going to its second BCS bowl in 4 years. That speaks for itself when most BCS teams haven't even had a sniff of the prize. And while I'm not proclaiming that we will beat Alabama, they better be ready and I think they know it. Are you telling me that the 04 Utah team wouldn't have given USC a tougher game than OU in 04? Give me a break. I promise you that 04 team would have done some damage and put Lientart on his ass a few times to be sure.

    We are like the Fremen. We toil up here in the cold mountains and the thin air and watch while the "big boys" play their games, all while ESPN(Guild) ignores us and calls us inferior. And you guys buy into it. We have corners that run a 4.2. We have Backs that will run your ass over. We have QBs that go number 1. We have defensive players that the pros salivate over. And we have the best kicker in the country. Yeah, we have our work cut out for us....we know that. But if the SEC and Big 12 are so great, why even have a BCS....lets just crown their asses before the season. Can you honestly tell me that the Mountain West doesn’t deserve an automatic bid over the PAC-10 or the Big Least? It’s all about money, not talent. I call bullshit. Put em on the field and let them play.

    So the rise of the Fremen begins. We may not win every battle, but we will win the war. And when that thick southern air fills our lungs and that extra oxygen drives us to an adrenaline induced frenzy, people better watch out.

    Big boys? Heh, we ARE the big boys.

    GO UTES!
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    Postby SandRider » 08 Dec 2008 23:37

    Okay, Crys, I'll assume you'll get to your pro-playoff arguments later on,
    now that you've responded to my Ute-baiting.

    I'm not necessarily against a playoff system, I just haven't seen anybody
    explain how it will work. March Madness works because it's not a problem
    to turn around and play games back to back. Obviously (I suppose) you would
    start with conference champions, but do you want to match up Conference USA
    with the SEC ? What about division champs ? How many teams do you propose
    in these playoffs ? How long before a hue & cry for a Loser's Bracket ? Who's
    going to pay for all these extra games ?

    The BCS is not perfect, but goddamn it, that's what everybody signed up for. Alabama
    got screwed by it this year, as did Texas - hell, BCS standings decided the Big 12 South
    champion (Texas 45, OU 35 ?) Utah may or not be screwed, depending on your POV.
    (I'm REAL prejudice, you know that, Crys, so don't take it personally. I'm one of the old
    school that most likely will never consider any Western teams in the same league as the SEC,
    or the Big 12 South)(And if Alabama beats the hell out of Utah, and Florida (who lost to Ole
    Miss, the stepchild of the SEC) beats the hell out of OU, I'll personally consider Alabama the
    best team this year - BUT, we signed up for the BCS, so Florida would be champs. GOD FORBID
    Oklahoma wins - you'll be seeing 45-35 well into next season)

    So we've got a few weeks to argue Conferences & favorite teams, (provided I don't die on
    the operating table day after tomorrow) but first, I'd like to hear your plans for this playoff idea.
    I'm certainly open to it - convince me.

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    Postby Crysknife » 09 Dec 2008 00:29

    I think it's pretty easy actually. The bowls can act as venues for the games with each bowl getting more than one game every few years in rotation. And I see no problem with a lower bracket for the teams not seeded in the Championship brackets. We could even keep a combination of the smaller bowls with the lower bracket in much the same way as the championship brackets.

    I don't really buy into the argument that it's too many games. Most of these kids would give a left nut to play in more games, and we know the lower college divisions already do it. Junior college players don't mind it, nor do the likes of Appalachian State or Linfield.

    I don't really care how it's done...be it an 8 team playoff or more with byes. A 14 team playoff would be ideal because you could then include every conference champion in D1 plus two wild card bids. Or a 12 team playoff with every conference champ with the two top seeds from East and West getting a bye in the first round. Then you have the smaller bowls for the schools that were left out. Then, if the SEC champ is really better, they'll have to beat everyone to prove it. My guess is that they will fall as often as not, but you never know.

    No D1 team should be held back by anyone. That's more like the Mafia than college sports should ever be. That's what I love about March Madness. At least my school gets a fair shot(or any shot). We won it in the 50's and almost again in the 90's, and even though we lost it, I wouldn't give that game up for nothing.

    Football should be the same.

    EDIT: You know, I bet this playoff thing would all go away if the conference champs in all D1 got an automatic bid to a big bowl. I think that would go a long way to quell some anger. We just don't like being told we have to go undefeated to even be considered. Why can't a two or three loss BYU, TCU, Utah or Boise St. get in? Other schools get in with that many losses.
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    Postby Robspierre » 09 Dec 2008 01:04

    My favorite, fucking Nebraska loses their conference championship and gets selected over other teams with better records to play for the National Championship, sorry but the BCS is pure bullshit designed to keep the pockets of the big schools lined with money. Playoff s are simple take the conference champions and seed them in a playoff, add at large teams to fill out needed slots play till one is left.

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    Postby TheDukester » 09 Dec 2008 01:10

    ***WARNING!*** Rant coming! Even worse: the rant of the disgruntled sports fan. Run away now! ***WARNING!***

    SandRider wrote:I'm one of the old
    school that most likely will never consider any Western teams in the same league as the SEC ...

    Lawl!

    Last few years:

    USC 70, Arkansas 17

    USC 50, Arkansas 14

    Cal 45, Tennessee 31

    UCLA 27, Tennessee 24

    Oregon 36, Mississippi State 13

    USC 23, Auburn 0

    ... and there's more, too. Since the BSC era began in 1998, the SEC and Pac-10 have met 27 times. Guess how many time the Pac-10 school has won?

    SIXTEEN.

    16-11 ... now which is the "superior" conference again?

    It's this one.
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    Postby Crysknife » 09 Dec 2008 01:29

    How about this Dukester:

    2001
    Utah 10
    USC 6

    2003
    Utah 31
    Cal 24

    2003
    Utah 17
    Oregon 13

    2004
    Utah 23
    Arizona 6

    2005
    Utah 27
    Arizona 24

    2005
    Utah 38
    Georgia Tech 10

    2007
    Utah 44
    UCLA 6

    2007
    Utah 44
    Louisville 35

    2008
    Utah 25
    Michigan 23

    2008
    Utah 31
    Oregon State 28


    Go UTES!
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    Postby TheDukester » 09 Dec 2008 01:33

    I've got no problem at all with Utah; you're preaching to the choir. I even attended a couple of those games.

    I think Alabama might be in for a bit of a surprise in New Orleans, too. :shock:
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    Postby TheDukester » 09 Dec 2008 01:33

    Robspierre wrote:My favorite, fucking Nebraska loses their conference championship and gets selected over other teams with better records to play for the National Championship ...

    It's even worse than you remember ...

    Nebraska didn't even win its division in 2001. Texas and Colorado played for the Big XII title that year.

    Absolute farce.

    But at least those godless, baby-eating Cornhuskers got boatraced by Miami.

    (start watching at about the 2:30 mark)
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    Postby Crysknife » 09 Dec 2008 01:41

    TheDukester wrote:I've got no problem at all with Utah; you're preaching to the choir. I even attended a couple of those games.

    I think Alabama might be in for a bit of a surprise in New Orleans, too. :shock:


    Let's hope so! But even I know beating an SEC team like Alabama this year will be an uphill battle, but I'm glad we get the chance to play it out on the field.
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    Postby SandRider » 09 Dec 2008 02:21

    REAL selective scores there, Duke.
    Those two back to back trompings of Arkansas by USC were both opening games, at a time when
    USC had a fucking POWERHOUSE team, and the Hawgs got off to a slow start both years (and
    besides, Arkansas and one of your other quotes, Mississippi State, are the bottom of the SEC Second
    Tier, and you quoted very close Tennessee losses in down years for the National Champion Vols)

    And I believe I clearly stated I'm prejudice. (I do like Cryskinfe's idea of just letting the SEC and
    the Big 12 (South) play it out every year)

    And no, I don't think EVERYBODY should get a chance. It's a long uphill struggle to build a consistent
    program; let Utah perform the way they did this year for the next ten, and then we'll talk about them
    in the same breath as Oklahoma, Texas, Florida, Alabama.

    It's about strength of schedule. I can't see letting a team like East Carolina (who got beat by North
    Carolina State, Southern Miss, Virgina and the University of fucking Houston) into the playoffs, and
    excluding a team like Texas Tech (who lost ONE game this year, to Oklahoma)

    But I also agree with what Duke said in the other thread - I liked the old bowl system fine. It wasn't fair
    either, but, like in politics, I'd rather have things decided by grumpy old men in smoke-filled back rooms than by computers.
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    Postby TheDukester » 09 Dec 2008 12:45

    SandRider wrote:REAL selective scores there, Duke.
    Those two back to back trompings of Arkansas by USC were both opening games, at a time when
    USC had a fucking POWERHOUSE team, and the Hawgs got off to a slow start both years (and
    besides, Arkansas and one of your other quotes, Mississippi State, are the bottom of the SEC Second
    Tier, and you quoted very close Tennessee losses in down years for the National Champion Vols)

    Simply amazing.

    Every time those games are mentioned, the excuses come rolling out of the south. It's why everyone outside of the Mason-Dixon Line refers to it as the Southeastern Excuses Conference.

    But whatever. Tell me which of those SIXTEEN wins you'd like me to list, and I'll do it. I'll even list all of the SEC's ELEVEN wins. Then you can list your excuses and we can move on.

    (BTW, you forgot to list that Darren McFadden was hurt in the first USC blowout. Because everyone knows that he would have scored 57 points all on his own.)
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    Postby TheDukester » 09 Dec 2008 12:50

    Now back to making fun of the BCS. This is pretty funny:

    BCS declares Germany winner of World War II

    Good stuff.
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    Postby Spicelon » 09 Dec 2008 14:38

    Come on, Ute lovers. Top to bottom can the MW or WAC even compare to,
    say, the Big 12? Be for real. I'm not necessarily slagging Utah...ok, I am.
    Regardless, the Utes woulda challenged OSU for third place in the Big 12
    South.

    I'm sure Utah is very deserving of everything you guys says it is, but their
    path to a BCS game is exponentially easier than it is for most SEC or Big 12
    teams. If the BCS allowed more than two teams per conference then your
    precious Utes and Boise's and BYU's would NEVER see a BCS game.

    All that said, I completely and unequivocally favor a college playoff. It
    would still be racked with controversy, as I would take the top 16 in the BCS
    and play a straight up tourney. It'd only take four weeks, the same time
    there is from the end of the season till the NCG. But there's the whole
    "which 16 teams do you take?"
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    Postby SandRider » 09 Dec 2008 14:38

    TheDukester wrote:Now back to making fun of the BCS. This is pretty funny:

    BCS declares Germany winner of World War II

    Good stuff.


    Good argument there against BCS "style points" (aka in this part of the
    world as "runnin' up the score" - one of the reasons six-man has a 45
    point mercy rule)

    Oklahoma is playing for the National Championship based SOLEY on the
    BCS style points they got from the Texas Tech game. (Tech stills suffers
    from poor Strength of Schedule in their non-conference games; back to
    my earlier point of having to prove a consistently strong program - when
    they get higher-quality non-conference opponents, they can finish out
    with a higher ranking.)(I mean they whipped Nevada out there, but so what ?)

    Hate on the SEC all you want. Hate the smug, arrogant SEC fans, too.
    Pound for Pound, Team for Team, the SEC is Division One Football.
    :twisted:
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    Postby Spicelon » 09 Dec 2008 15:25

    SandRider wrote:Hate on the SEC all you want. Hate the smug, arrogant SEC fans, too.
    Pound for Pound, Team for Team, the SEC is Division One Football.
    :twisted:


    It is a fair argument that the Big 12 was every bit as good as the SEC this year.

    Boomer Sooner, OU will roll Gator Nation.
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    Postby TheDukester » 09 Dec 2008 15:52

    SandRider wrote:Pound for Pound, Team for Team, the SEC is Division One Football.

    Well, then, I find it fascinating that "Division One Football" had a losing record against the other five BCS conferences this season.

    Six wins, nine losses ... you can look it up. Including a 4-6 record against the ACC. Hell, Georgia Tech and mighty Wake Forest alone combined for a 4-0 record against the SEC.

    "Division One Football," my ass. If that's the case, then the ACC must be the NFL.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 09 Dec 2008 15:53

    Spicelon wrote:
    SandRider wrote:Hate on the SEC all you want. Hate the smug, arrogant SEC fans, too.
    Pound for Pound, Team for Team, the SEC is Division One Football.
    :twisted:


    It is a fair argument that the Big 12 was every bit as good as the SEC this year.

    Boomer Sooner, OU will roll Gator Nation.


    We'll see about that.

    This year, maybe the Big 12 was as good, but the SEC has a long tradition of outstanding football teams.

    College football is a way of life around here.
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    Postby TheDukester » 09 Dec 2008 15:58

    Spicelon wrote:Come on, Ute lovers. Top to bottom can the MW or WAC even compare to,
    say, the Big 12? Be for real. I'm not necessarily slagging Utah...ok, I am.
    Regardless, the Utes woulda challenged OSU for third place in the Big 12
    South.

    I'm sure Utah is very deserving of everything you guys says it is, but their
    path to a BCS game is exponentially easier than it is for most SEC or Big 12
    teams. If the BCS allowed more than two teams per conference then your
    precious Utes and Boise's and BYU's would NEVER see a BCS game.

    Everything quoted here is completely subjective.

    It would be just as easy for me to say, "There's no way SEC teams would be able to withstand the much harder travel in the Pac-10 on a year-in, year-out basis." Without offering up any proof, though, statements like these are just opinions. They're dangerously close to meaningless.

    It's funny what happens sometimes when two teams take the field, though. Just ask Oklahoma how that Fiesta Bowl went.
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    Postby Crysknife » 09 Dec 2008 16:20

    TheDukester wrote:
    Spicelon wrote:Come on, Ute lovers. Top to bottom can the MW or WAC even compare to,
    say, the Big 12? Be for real. I'm not necessarily slagging Utah...ok, I am.
    Regardless, the Utes woulda challenged OSU for third place in the Big 12
    South.

    I'm sure Utah is very deserving of everything you guys says it is, but their
    path to a BCS game is exponentially easier than it is for most SEC or Big 12
    teams. If the BCS allowed more than two teams per conference then your
    precious Utes and Boise's and BYU's would NEVER see a BCS game.

    Everything quoted here is completely subjective.

    It would be just as easy for me to say, "There's no way SEC teams would be able to withstand the much harder travel in the Pac-10 on a year-in, year-out basis." Without offering up any proof, though, statements like these are just opinions. They're dangerously close to meaningless.

    It's funny what happens sometimes when two teams take the field, though. Just ask Oklahoma how that Fiesta Bowl went.


    Exactly. And I think it's fair to say that any SEC team would have a hard time in the MWC. We have 3 teams in the top 25. What other school beat 3 teams in the top 25? I'm not sure, but I don't think you can even say Florida or Alabama.
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    Postby Spicelon » 09 Dec 2008 16:52

    True true, it's all just opinion, but that's what makes this fun!! And as it appears that I am the only Big 12 fan here, I will continue to jab and poke at the posers who dare think they have a chance against OU. I mean, it's not like OU has a history of choking or anything. Right?

    :D

    Boomer Sooner!!!!!

    PS what, no Big 10 love here? Have they fallen that low?
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    Postby Freakzilla » 09 Dec 2008 16:53

    Crysknife wrote:
    TheDukester wrote:
    Spicelon wrote:Come on, Ute lovers. Top to bottom can the MW or WAC even compare to,
    say, the Big 12? Be for real. I'm not necessarily slagging Utah...ok, I am.
    Regardless, the Utes woulda challenged OSU for third place in the Big 12
    South.

    I'm sure Utah is very deserving of everything you guys says it is, but their
    path to a BCS game is exponentially easier than it is for most SEC or Big 12
    teams. If the BCS allowed more than two teams per conference then your
    precious Utes and Boise's and BYU's would NEVER see a BCS game.

    Everything quoted here is completely subjective.

    It would be just as easy for me to say, "There's no way SEC teams would be able to withstand the much harder travel in the Pac-10 on a year-in, year-out basis." Without offering up any proof, though, statements like these are just opinions. They're dangerously close to meaningless.

    It's funny what happens sometimes when two teams take the field, though. Just ask Oklahoma how that Fiesta Bowl went.


    Exactly. And I think it's fair to say that any SEC team would have a hard time in the MWC. We have 3 teams in the top 25. What other school beat 3 teams in the top 25? I'm not sure, but I don't think you can even say Florida or Alabama.


    Florida beat two and those were in their own conference, Georgia and Alabama.
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    Postby TheDukester » 09 Dec 2008 16:59

    Freakzilla wrote:Florida beat two and those were in their own conference, Georgia and Alabama.

    Georgia's an interesting case.

    A preseason No. 1 team ... that ended up with three absolutely hideous losses. There's no way they should be ranked as high as they are (opinion alert! :)), but it takes longer for the original No. 1 team to fall out, of course. The Dawgs' best win is ... is ... what? ... five-loss LSU? Ick.

    Florida is scary, scary good right now. How they lost to Ole Miss is one of life's enduring mysteries. Something, cliches are true, I guess: that's why they play the games.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 09 Dec 2008 17:09

    I think the initial rankings are worthless. Well, moreso than the the ranking system in general.

    Watch out for GA Tech next year though... :wink:
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    Postby TheDukester » 09 Dec 2008 17:16

    http://www.jacurutu.com/viewtopic.php?t=1013

    I expect to see the "The Sand Riders" ... "The Freak Zillas" ... "The Ute-Lovers" and other entries to appear soon.

    The first bowl is in 11 days ... get those entries in soon.
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    Re: BCS. Bowl Championship Series. Bring it.

    Postby Freakzilla » 22 Sep 2011 15:35

    North Carolina, can't wait to see you in Atlanta!

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