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    Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

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      Non-dune discussion

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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 27 Jan 2011 16:30

    Hunchback Jack wrote:Is Tracy Hickman the pulp fantasy guy from the 80s/90s? Coauthored with Margaret Weis?

    Never read any; name just rang a bell.

    HBJ


    Yup, him and Weis made the Dragonlance series, which while very YA pulp has a place in my heart because DL was a huge part of my reading experience from an early age.

    They co-authored one really quite good series in a different universe called the Death Gate books. Those are actually some of my favourite fantasy ever, I recently re-read them.

    I think Hickman would be KJA's hero because he's the opposite of KJA. He's what KJA imagines himself to be one day - not the person writing in the expanded universe series, not the person who is constantly adding books to other people's universes, no - Hickman is the person who created a universe that dozens and dozens of authors have jioned in on, a universe with somewhere around or over 200 books.

    That's KJA's wet dream right there. To stop being the guy who has to ride the coat tails of others and to start being the guy that has wrote something, anything, that another author would be even remotely interested in expanding upon.

    Not going to happen buddy.

    EDIT: I'm not saying the DL people are good at writing, though Weis and Hickman are probably the best authors in that Universe by far. They are capable of writing decent stuff though, and it's all orders of magnitude less moronic than what KJA writes.

    EDIT: It's also KJA's wet dream because he loves numbers. And for numbers you just cannot beat DL, the sales of the series have got to be 10s of times what KJA's total book sales have been, even including the Dune stuff.
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby D Pope » 27 Jan 2011 16:41

    :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :text-goodpost:
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby TheDukester » 27 Jan 2011 17:46

    Jesus, I had no idea DL had gotten that big.

    Okay, I'll put this guy on a level above TheKJA. But I will argue one technicality: the setting might be his, but the overall idea (or universe, perhaps) isn't.

    DL is still D&D-based fiction, following certain guidelines for how the characters can act, how powerful they are, how combat works, how magic works, etc. It's not Hickman's sandbox.

    But I'll admit that it sounds like he's at least making the most of it, for which credit is due. Keith has done nothing to enrich DUNE, but it sounds like Hickman has enriched the D&D experience. For that reason alone, he really would be the anti-Keith.
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 27 Jan 2011 18:15

    Yes, DL wasn't even supposed to be a book series, it was their intention to create a new game along the same lines as D&D and when the backstory and worldbuilding got to a certain point they turned it into a trilogy.

    Keep in mind too that that was the first thing those two had ever written, and they did not consider themselves writers at the time - and it's STILL better than KJA's work.

    And just to put one more arguement in Weis and Hickman's favour, while that universe was largely influenced by other works, they did go on to later come up with some unique stuff (the Death Gate series I was talking about is extremely unique in the Fantasy world), which KJA hasn't really done to my knowledge, all his books are essentially ripped off from others.

    The mechanics of DL's universe may have been ripped off largely, but the setting/universe (world, history, characters etc) are pretty different than what small amount of D&D I've read. KJA would give both his dicta-hiking legs to be able to come up with a universe that was even half-unique that other authors wanted to join in on, let alone one that will in all likelihood continue long after the death of the original authors and sell tens of millions of copies overall. He shits his pants just thinking of being someone that will be remembered like that.

    :D
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby SandChigger » 27 Jan 2011 19:25

    Creating a universe for others to write in... who does that bring to mind. (RIP) :lol:

    I found what he did rather offensive. It reminded me a lot of that blahg post by KJA about meeting two girls on the top of some mountain or other who had just found out their disabled friend had died: the cheap utilization of a human experience for self-promotion.

    Hickman's story, if you haven't listened to it, was even better than KJA's; it involved

    (1) a soldier, (2) wounded in battle and now in a wheelchair, who (3) told the writer that his work had inspired him and given him courage when he needed it, (4) proving the writer's contention that what writers create really affects people's lives.

    Pull the ole patriotic/nationalistic heartstrings, jerk a few tears of sympathy and relief (Thank GOD that's not me!), preen in the glow of peer admiration, and touch yourself lovingly in your special place, if only in your mind... it's a fucking wonder KJA and the rest of them didn't fall over right then and there, convulsing in spams of paroxysmal orgasm.

    What disgusts me is that Hickman couldn't keep it to himself, he just had to use the experience. And the rubes ate it up.

    I hope they paid him well. :roll:
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 27 Jan 2011 20:06

    Allright, that's pretty douchebag.

    Man, authors are like musicians - if I like some of their work I should go to great length to make sure I never find out anything about their personality, because them being shit-heads ruins the whole bloody thing! :evil:
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby D Pope » 27 Jan 2011 20:15

    Despite all better attempts, it seems that willing association with the hack is grounds for dissmissal from humanity. :?
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 27 Jan 2011 20:35

    Sadly, that appears to be the case.

    HBJ
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 01 Feb 2011 03:36

    So KJA blahged about the Hickman speech:

    A complete BIG NAME douchbag wrote:He told one of the most moving stories I have ever experienced in my life. I am incredibly glad we were recording it.

    Tracy is an adventure writer who crafts extremely popular entertaining novels that are enjoyed by millions of readers. No, his books don’t show up on Oprah’s Book Club; he doesn’t win the Pulitzer or the Nobel Prize in Literature. But, as his story demonstrates, he has a profound impact on his readers, nevertheless. That’s a writer’s job.


    Geez, has this guy got a chip on his shoulder or what? Incredible.

    HBJ
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby SandChigger » 01 Feb 2011 03:46

    I thought a writer's job was to entertain. Or was that that old-fashioned dead Herbert guy what said that? :think:

    Or was that a storyteller? Dictahiker? No, a dictahiker's job is to frighten wildlife into constipation and put them off their nuts!

    I'm glad to know Kevie is having a midlife crisis, however minor and unrecognized as such by the man himself. :lol:

    So Hickman can claim he inspired a soldier to heroics in battle. That's still better than what the BIG NAME can claim: he's just inspired some idiots who'd do better out digging ditches and serving burgers with a smile to read and want to be writers themselves.

    Suck that, Oprah and you stuffy Swedes!

    (Btw, isn't the Pulitzer just for journalists? :lol: )
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby TheDukester » 01 Feb 2011 12:38

    SandChigger wrote:I'm glad to know Kevie is having a midlife crisis, however minor and unrecognized as such by the man himself.

    Same here. The glue is starting to come off some of his hinges, in a very public (and highly entertaining) way.

    (Also ... there's some fiction and music categories for the Pulitzers. They are much like the "best sound editing" potion of the Academy Awards show — nobody gives a shit.)
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby Omphalos » 01 Feb 2011 14:41

    Nobody cares about the Pulitzer for fiction? Really? Well, I have in the past. Guess I can see that coming from a journalist, but I wonder if the rest of the public cares or not.
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby TheDukester » 01 Feb 2011 15:28

    I was exaggerating for effect. It would be more fair, I think, to say that the Pulitzer journalism section overshadows all of the other awards. It's the award in the publications industry.

    Fiction, I think, has its most important awards broken down upon genre lines. There's huge ones like the National Book Awards and the Newberrys, but I'd argue the Hugo is just as important to an SF/F writer ... or the Edgar (??) is just as important to a mystery writer.

    Of the two that Keith mentioned — and, clearly, he was just name-dropping — I'd say that a Nobel prize in literature would outweigh a Pulitzer. But that's just me; others' mileage may vary.
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby SandChigger » 01 Feb 2011 19:13

    Either way, neither Hickman nor Anderson are in the running. ;)
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

    I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

    I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby Omphalos » 01 Feb 2011 19:40

    TheDukester wrote:I was exaggerating for effect.


    Sorry, Duke. I'm very literal. I get it from my mother. I'm working on it. :oops:
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby SandChigger » 01 Feb 2011 23:30

    (Small steps. 12-point plan. We're rootin' & tootin' for ya! :D )
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby Omphalos » 02 Feb 2011 00:13

    SandChigger wrote:(Small steps. 12-point plan. We're rootin' & tootin' for ya! :D )


    Tootin? Sounds like fun!
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby SandChigger » 02 Feb 2011 04:34

    Wouldn't think so if you'd bean where I bean. :shock:
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    Re: Kevin and Becky will teach you to write for $549

    Postby lotek » 02 Feb 2011 09:26

    SandChigger wrote:(Btw, isn't the Pulitzer just for journalists? :lol: )


    yeah I was going to say the same thing...
    What a little mind this guy has...
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