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    Zeitgeist: Moving Forward

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      Non-dune discussion

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    Zeitgeist: Moving Forward

    Postby Lawliet » 03 Aug 2011 00:24

    I don't think this has been discussed here before, so i thought it would be interesting. I want to know your opinion about this documentary film, the third one in the Zeitgeist series. If you haven't seen it here it is:

    Also...i can kill you with my brain. - River Tam

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    Re: Zeitgeist: Moving Forward

    Postby SandRider » 03 Aug 2011 14:33

    I've seen this several times now - it will take quite a while to "discuss" it ...

    in general, as with most "serious" films of this sort, there are a lot a very valid points brought up,
    and a lot of bullshit, too ...

    my "quick" review would be that is worth watching and the topics certainly worth thinking about ...
    some of the "solutions" offered are unworkable utopian pipedreams, but those are also worth thinking about ...
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    Re: Zeitgeist: Moving Forward

    Postby Apjak » 03 Aug 2011 16:41

    and by "unworkable utopian pipedreams" I would go further to say, "Tyranny for the 'good' of it victims".
    I don't think the author should make the reader do that much work - Kevin J. Anderson
    We think we've updated 'Dune' for a modern readership without dumbing it down.- Brian Herbert
    There’s an unwritten compact between you and the reader. If someone enters a bookstore and sets down hard earned money(energy) for your book, you owe that person some entertainment and as much more as you can give. - Frank Herbert
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    Re: Zeitgeist: Moving Forward

    Postby JustSomeGuy » 04 Aug 2011 00:33

    SandRider wrote:in general, as with most "serious" films of this sort, there are a lot a very valid points brought up,
    and a lot of bullshit, too ...


    I thought the scene at the start of the film where a kid is sleeping on the sidewalk while across the street some guy is stuffing shrimp into his mouth was laugh-out-loud funny. Also, the very ending of the film was fucking stupid. One scene, especially. Shit just hit the fan and some lady reacts to the news (at 2:34) with a smile on her face like everything's going to be alright now. You stupid bitch! But wait... she's right. Everything turns out alright and everyone lives happily ever after.
    Aside from those two scenes, I really enjoyed this movie.

    SandRider wrote:my "quick" review would be that is worth watching and the topics certainly worth thinking about ...
    some of the "solutions" offered are unworkable utopian pipedreams, but those are also worth thinking about ...


    Part three showcased these "unworkable utopian pipedreams" and it was my least favorite (least favorite?) part of the movie. I kept thinking: Just move on already- none of this shit will ever happen! Things are the way they are and they're not going to get any better.

    Apjak wrote:and by "unworkable utopian pipedreams" I would go further to say, "Tyranny for the 'good' of it victims".


    You make that sound like a bad thing.
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    Re: Zeitgeist: Moving Forward

    Postby Apjak » 04 Aug 2011 08:29

    JustSomeGuy wrote:
    Part three showcased these "unworkable utopian pipedreams" and it was my least favorite (least favorite?) part of the movie. I kept thinking: Just move on already- none of this shit will ever happen! Things are the way they are and they're not going to get any better.

    Apjak wrote:and by "unworkable utopian pipedreams" I would go further to say, "Tyranny for the 'good' of it victims".


    You make that sound like a bad thing.


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    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. Their very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be ‘cured’ against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.
    —C. S. Lewis
    I don't think the author should make the reader do that much work - Kevin J. Anderson
    We think we've updated 'Dune' for a modern readership without dumbing it down.- Brian Herbert
    There’s an unwritten compact between you and the reader. If someone enters a bookstore and sets down hard earned money(energy) for your book, you owe that person some entertainment and as much more as you can give. - Frank Herbert
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    Re: Zeitgeist: Moving Forward

    Postby SandChigger » 04 Aug 2011 08:42

    I don't want to be made to be a better person than I want to be.

    (Haven't watched the film... haven't found the block of time needed to watch it when I haven't had to do or felt like doing something else instead.)
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    Re: Zeitgeist: Moving Forward

    Postby SadisticCynic » 04 Aug 2011 09:19

    Apjak wrote:Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. Their very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be ‘cured’ against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.
    —C. S. Lewis


    That is a nice quote! Do you know if he made it before or after his conversion to Christianity?
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    Re: Zeitgeist: Moving Forward

    Postby Apjak » 04 Aug 2011 09:48

    I only know that it's from a collection of speeches titled "God in the Dock" which where, on the whole, Christian Apologetics, but I can't speak for that speech's chronology specifically, because it's more political. And regardless of one's philosophical and religious views, I find C. S. Lewis and his predecessor G. K. Chesterton to be lucid thinkers and eloquent.

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    I don't think the author should make the reader do that much work - Kevin J. Anderson
    We think we've updated 'Dune' for a modern readership without dumbing it down.- Brian Herbert
    There’s an unwritten compact between you and the reader. If someone enters a bookstore and sets down hard earned money(energy) for your book, you owe that person some entertainment and as much more as you can give. - Frank Herbert
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    Re: Zeitgeist: Moving Forward

    Postby SadisticCynic » 04 Aug 2011 12:33

    And regardless of one's philosophical and religious views, I find C. S. Lewis and his predecessor G. K. Chesterton to be lucid thinkers and eloquent.


    Just to be clear, I wasn't questioning the validity of his statement due to his beliefs, I just wanted to know his background at the time he was saying it.
    Ah English, the language where pretty much any word can have any meaning! - A Thing of Eternity
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