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    Experts on Biblical Satire?

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      Non-dune discussion

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    Experts on Biblical Satire?

    Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 01 May 2014 04:19

    This is a bit random for me (though I am admittedly a very random person). I'm now doing a scholarly paper on John Dryden's "Absalom and Achitophel," a satirical mock-epic poem which allegorizes the Popish Plot and the Monmouth Rebellion during Charles II's and James II's time with Absalom's rebellion and the betrayal of Ahitophel (spelled differently in The Bible). I've been looking at sources from Winston Churchill's biography of the Duke of Marlborough to The Jerusalem Bible, as well as two scholarly books of satire in The Bible. Recently, when I was watching Life of Brian and the making of documentary, it got me wondering about Biblical satire as a whole. I know that Geoffrey Chaucer was known for his satires of Churchmen in The Canterbury Tales, and Mark Twain wrote some pretty far out sci-fi satires about Christianity in Captain Stomfield's Visit to Heaven and The Mysterious Stranger. I'm just wondering how many authors out there have tried to fuse Biblical material with comedy or satire. Dryden used The Bible to make witty arguments, like noting that Charles II and King David are both very libidinous with the womenfolk. Dune has elements of dry satire, in how in critiques how religious leaders and followers can get a little too carried away with religious and political causes.

    I'm sure some of you have ventured into some study of religion from reading Dune, so I was wondering if any of you were knowledgeable of any other Biblical satires I haven't heard about, or know of any clever satires of religion anywhere else I haven't looked.
    '...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
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    Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

    Postby Apjak » 02 May 2014 07:56

    The important thing to understand about the bible is that it is not one book. It is a collection of the literature of the Ancient Hebrews: the Old Testament and then you have the literature of the early Christians: the New Testament. It spans hundreds of years of history and culture, and is written in a few different languages. It's a compilation of ancient texts held sacred, which includes Myths, Laws, Histories, Journalism, Personal Letters, a Songbook, and a Book of Erotic Poetry.

    So if you're looking for religious satire, you don't even have to leave the bible to find it. The Book of Job is a morality tale where the hero's whole life falls apart due to a wager between God and the Devil, but the bulk f the work is mostly his pious friends blaming Job's problems for being sinful. Job tells them off pretty spectacularly, all in Ancient Hebrew poetry.

    Jesus' main enemies are the religious establishment. He says all their good works are equal to "menstrual rags" in the sight of God. &c. &c.
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    Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

    Postby SandRider » 02 May 2014 21:56

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    Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

    Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 04 May 2014 19:24

    Apjak wrote:The important thing to understand about the bible is that it is not one book. It is a collection of the literature of the Ancient Hebrews: the Old Testament and then you have the literature of the early Christians: the New Testament. It spans hundreds of years of history and culture, and is written in a few different languages. It's a compilation of ancient texts held sacred, which includes Myths, Laws, Histories, Journalism, Personal Letters, a Songbook, and a Book of Erotic Poetry.

    So if you're looking for religious satire, you don't even have to leave the bible to find it. The Book of Job is a morality tale where the hero's whole life falls apart due to a wager between God and the Devil, but the bulk f the work is mostly his pious friends blaming Job's problems for being sinful. Job tells them off pretty spectacularly, all in Ancient Hebrew poetry.

    Jesus' main enemies are the religious establishment. He says all their good works are equal to "menstrual rags" in the sight of God. &c. &c.


    Apjak, I could hug you. I definitely want to use The Book of Job as an example of satire in The Bible. A book I got, called A Serrated Edge, talks about how Jesus satirizes the establishment, and the author uses it to satirize the present day Fundamentalists.

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    Also perfect. Like many an overzealous follower, they have a tendency to kvetch, and illogically so. Many of the things in the Dryden poem I'm writing about resonate very eerily with many of things going on today in U.S. politics. And Dryden was merely mirroring the politics of his time period during the reign of Charles II.
    '...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
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    Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

    Postby Freakzilla » 05 May 2014 08:43

    One of my favorite Christian satire sites is bettybowers.com "America's Best Christian".

    Also try landoverbaptist.org "Where the worthwhile worship. Unsaved unwelcome!"
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    Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

    Postby D Pope » 06 May 2014 23:36

    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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    Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

    Postby distrans » 08 May 2014 21:27

    Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote: Many of the things in the Dryden poem I'm writing about resonate very eerily with many of things going on today in U.S. politics. And Dryden was merely mirroring the politics of his time period during the reign of Charles II.


    no suprise,
    given their the evils fucks in room
    some 16 hundred and 90 years running at this point

    is anyone going to mention archie bunker?

    'all in the family' roasted what passed for christian for years
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    Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

    Postby Jodorowsky's Acolyte » 09 May 2014 18:22

    Freakzilla wrote:One of my favorite Christian satire sites is bettybowers.com "America's Best Christian".

    Also try landoverbaptist.org "Where the worthwhile worship. Unsaved unwelcome!"


    My lord Freakzilla, you are awesome! I did check both sites earlier, and I think landoverbaptist is just perfect for looking for satire in The Bible. Just wanted to thank you. :D

    D Pope wrote:http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28881.Lamb


    Thank you, too, D Pope. I've been curious of about Christopher Moore's books, and this indeed catch my eye one time. If you like reading atypical novels about Jesus, try checking out Robert Graves' King Jesus. Graves, who wrote I, Claudius, makes Jesus' origins very interesting.

    distrans wrote:
    Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote: Many of the things in the Dryden poem I'm writing about resonate very eerily with many of things going on today in U.S. politics. And Dryden was merely mirroring the politics of his time period during the reign of Charles II.


    no suprise,
    given their the evils fucks in room
    some 16 hundred and 90 years running at this point

    is anyone going to mention archie bunker?

    'all in the family' roasted what passed for christian for years


    I actually revisited some episodes of All in the Family some months ago. Having never grown up in the 70s, I was surprised by the issues that show took on. I was more surprised just to how thin Rob Reiner was in those days, but that's besides the point. The episode where Archie accidentally joined the Ku Klux Klan was an interesting one, especially in the way Archie defied them in the end.
    '...all those who took part in the rise and fall of the Dune project learned how to fall one and one thousand times with savage obstinacy until learning how to stand. I remember my old father who, while dying happy, said to me: "My son, in my life, I triumphed because I learned how to fail."' -Alejandro Jodorowsky
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    Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

    Postby distrans » 09 May 2014 21:50

    you will note
    he managed to confront them
    at a time when corperations were actually taxed
    and the rich paid their full share

    a time when the goons had little draw but inbred vile

    when time get tough the goon collectors have nearly an unmanagable farm league


    have you come across the documentary "the god who wasnt there" ?


    it points out the decades between the gospels jesus time
    and anyone writting down anything about it

    not to give it singular authority or anything

    but it might help point your present search for material
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    Re: Experts on Biblical Satire?

    Postby Freakzilla » 11 May 2014 18:37

    Jodorowsky's Acolyte wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:One of my favorite Christian satire sites is bettybowers.com "America's Best Christian".

    Also try landoverbaptist.org "Where the worthwhile worship. Unsaved unwelcome!"


    My lord Freakzilla, you are awesome! I did check both sites earlier, and I think landoverbaptist is just perfect for looking for satire in The Bible. Just wanted to thank you. :D


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