the survival of understanding

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distrans
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the survival of understanding

Postby distrans » 10 Feb 2018 22:47

that is

what makes what you know of value to the point of it being conveyed as you understand it

to future individuals whoms lives will inevitably lack comprehension of basic elements of existance which underlied the assumption made before the predicessors made their edicts which got passed along

im not a math guy but they know when you look at anything the change of its official positions is just an indicator of its age into the past


aside from change itself and all the uncomfort that goes with recognizing it influence on everything

did you find anywhere something to hold onto?

georgiedenbro
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Re: the survival of understanding

Postby georgiedenbro » 15 Feb 2018 14:22

These books suggest that all of our understanding is conveyed through genetics, so we don't have to worry about writing it all down, exactly, so long as we breed. Although even that may be a special case if my theory is correct that Dune uses the same physics as Destination: Void, in which case probably it's some property of the universe itself that conveys the data, in which case nothing is ever lost.

Then there is the theory of the noosphere, which says that information has a 'culture' all of it own, and grows as the human race continues and develops. No one person is require to pass on the data in the noosphere, even though it is only propagated by the conscious life of everyone alive. In this instance we might have to conclude that maximal participation in the lives of others creates the best injection of our individual knowledge into the general cloud of the noosphere.
Last edited by georgiedenbro on 19 Feb 2018 12:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Omphalos
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Re: the survival of understanding

Postby Omphalos » 19 Feb 2018 10:42

Yea, there is definitely a biological function. Assuming that nothing is lost, that all "knowledge," or whatever you want to call it for purposes of discussion, is energy, the problem will always be access. In the Dune books the character's biology gave them methods of access, but only to stuff their decedents experienced. Noosphere approach or not, biology does not get you past the block of experience, or, lack thereof, except in certain weird cases, like Alia. Herbert doesn't seem to me to be positing a consciousness that is greater than the individual blood lines.

georgiedenbro
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Re: the survival of understanding

Postby georgiedenbro » 19 Feb 2018 12:39

Omphalos wrote:Yea, there is definitely a biological function. Assuming that nothing is lost, that all "knowledge," or whatever you want to call it for purposes of discussion, is energy, the problem will always be access.


This is a great point. The later books, and especially what the final Duncan can do, seem to suggest that 'resonance' is more or less what's happening when people can access information from the past. Genetic markers inside you can give you those resonating factors to give you access to people who shared those markers in your lineage, and so even though your ability to gain access to universal knowledge might be theoretically unlimited, in practice there just isn't the ability to access it unless there's a proper receiver, for lack of a better term, to pick up the signal. In the Dune books it seems the receiver is genetic similarity, but what I find interesting is the notion that perhaps that's only the easiest way to access it, rather than the only way. I have to suspect that the notion of the KH was going to be tied up in Dune 7 with what the BT were investigating, which was setting up a genetic mix that could access all of the included memories. This would tie into Marty and Daniel and 'the net', I assume, and link the BG breeding techniques with pure physics in whatever they discovered about Holtzmann's theories.

That's my head canon, anyhow :violence-ak47:
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distrans
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Re: the survival of understanding

Postby distrans » 19 Feb 2018 23:42

I wouldn't say easiest

we often find more economically ways of doing things which were formerly impossible until the first method of such was developed. methods quickly abandoned once the barrier is surmounted and progress continued

georgiedenbro
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Re: the survival of understanding

Postby georgiedenbro » 20 Feb 2018 11:25

distrans wrote:I wouldn't say easiest

we often find more economically ways of doing things which were formerly impossible until the first method of such was developed. methods quickly abandoned once the barrier is surmounted and progress continued


Well ok, we can say 'easiest to discover' perhaps, or easiest to access without more advanced techniques.
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distrans
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Re: the survival of understanding

Postby distrans » 21 Feb 2018 14:28

given the lack of mechanical explanation for memories storage in biological material don't you think that believe such occurs to be a matter of faith?

georgiedenbro
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Re: the survival of understanding

Postby georgiedenbro » 22 Feb 2018 13:34

distrans wrote:given the lack of mechanical explanation for memories storage in biological material don't you think that believe such occurs to be a matter of faith?


Frank didn't state it as a fact, but did claim (maybe) that it was a prediction of what we'd discover one day. My current explanation of how it functions is based on a combination of Destination: Void and Dan Simmons' Hyperion series, both of which (I believe) share a common physics that neither of them individually made up, but that is itself based on a entire system of esoteric mysticism that I happen to be familiar with. In a way it's a total coincidence that I came across that system and noticed that it accords with what Frank wrote in the Destination series. By inference I'm supposing that he may he employing the same system in the Dune books. I can't be sure he is, but if he is then it explains a great many things that are otherwise very hard to understand as being anything but fantasy.
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