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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby semuta » 08 Aug 2009 13:42

    LOL I guess this makes me cast out from the cast out
    think about that, and what it means long term
    That's how I wrote the novel, wanting you to participate with the best of your own imagination. I did not aim for the lowest common denominator and 'write down" to anyone. You and I have a compact and my responsibility is to entertain you as richly as possible, always giving you as much extra as I can. I assume you are intelligent and will enlist your own imagination. You'll see that when you read the Dune excerpt and the other stories in this collection.
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby Serkanner » 08 Aug 2009 13:47

    semuta wrote:LOL I guess this makes me cast out from the cast out
    think about that, and what it means long term


    I know it saves me plenty of time from reading your drivel which provides me with enough time to have sex with my girlfriend, make her pregnant, have twins and name them Leto and Ghanima ... not too bad a deal.
    "... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

    “There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby TheDukester » 08 Aug 2009 13:51

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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby semuta » 08 Aug 2009 13:54

    Serkanner wrote:
    semuta wrote:LOL I guess this makes me cast out from the cast out
    think about that, and what it means long term


    I know it saves me plenty of time from reading your drivel which provides me with enough time to have sex with my girlfriend, make her pregnant, have twins and name them Leto and Ghanima ... not too bad a deal.


    hey nobody expects you to read it, i would question the wisdom of criticising something you have admitted to not actually having read though.

    I wouldn't put the names of your kids online in a forum where somebody you are trying to make an enemy of is present. You don't know what sort of psychopath I might be nor what resources I have at my disposal. You will definitely be wanting to shoot your pregnant girlfriend up with tamiflu though, as we need all the autistic and paraplegic babies we can produce.
    That's how I wrote the novel, wanting you to participate with the best of your own imagination. I did not aim for the lowest common denominator and 'write down" to anyone. You and I have a compact and my responsibility is to entertain you as richly as possible, always giving you as much extra as I can. I assume you are intelligent and will enlist your own imagination. You'll see that when you read the Dune excerpt and the other stories in this collection.
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby TheDukester » 08 Aug 2009 13:56

    They really shouldn't allow online access in mental institutions.
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby Serkanner » 08 Aug 2009 14:07

    semuta wrote:
    Serkanner wrote:
    semuta wrote:LOL I guess this makes me cast out from the cast out
    think about that, and what it means long term


    I know it saves me plenty of time from reading your drivel which provides me with enough time to have sex with my girlfriend, make her pregnant, have twins and name them Leto and Ghanima ... not too bad a deal.


    hey nobody expects you to read it, i would question the wisdom of criticising something you have admitted to not actually having read though.

    I wouldn't put the names of your kids online in a forum where somebody you are trying to make an enemy of is present. You don't know what sort of psychopath I might be nor what resources I have at my disposal. You will definitely be wanting to shoot your pregnant girlfriend up with tamiflu though, as we need all the autistic and paraplegic babies we can produce.


    You are welcome to stop by any day. Want my address too?
    "... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

    “There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

    Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
    and wrote a Dune Novel."
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby Nekhrun » 08 Aug 2009 14:19

    Damn it! I miss all the fun!

    Well, I'm off to stock up on Swine Flu pills and tamiflu :roll:
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby SandRider » 08 Aug 2009 14:55

    my scrolling finger is cramped~up
    and my trackball~wheel is burnt ....
    ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby Serkanner » 08 Aug 2009 15:00

    SandRider wrote:my scrolling finger is cramped~up
    and my trackball~wheel is burnt ....


    Tamiflu is the penicillin of the 21st century.
    "... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

    “There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

    Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
    and wrote a Dune Novel."
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby SandChigger » 08 Aug 2009 18:36

    semuta wrote:okay I get the hint.

    Why do I doubt that? :roll:

    sukran

    Huh? What language is that? :shock:

    OH! Did you mean SHUKRAN, "Thank you" in Arabic? :laughing:

    You never could keep your language shit together, could you, fruitcake?

    Afwan! Ma'a ssalamu! :clap:
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby SandChigger » 08 Aug 2009 18:39

    Serkanner wrote:
    SandRider wrote:my scrolling finger is cramped~up
    and my trackball~wheel is burnt ....

    Tamiflu is the penicillin of the 21st century.

    Um ... I don't think the finger cramp and burnt ball was due to anything sexual, that he needs a shot... :shifty:
    I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby Freakzilla » 08 Aug 2009 19:32

    I'm a couple of pages behind, forgive me if someone else hase replied to this...

    semuta wrote:So he claims. He deals only with the relatively short range projections (which encompass many generations of human lives) up to the point of avoiding Krazilec. We have only Letos word for it that Krazilec would have occurred without his intervention into human affairs. He never justifies this which I find very interesting.


    Leto's intention was never to avoid Kralizec, it was to cause it. The hacks twain have influenced your understanding af FH's work. Leto assured us in CoD that Kralizec will come, and it did, between GEoD and HoD. It was called The Famine Times and The Scattering.

    Leto developed the Siona gene specifically to avoid the end of the human species. It is about what he envisages that he had to begin this breeding project. And I question that was his true intent; beyond the necessity to create those who are invisible to prescience, he would know that mutations such as Miles Teg were likely to follow as evolution naturally progresses. Did Leto foresee the Ones of Many Faces? Did Leto foresee Honored Matre? Leto doesn’t micromanage too far into the future because he purposefully creates a limit to his own prescient ability with the Siona gene. Then the No~ships fulfill a similar purpose.


    You may question it because you don't understand. Leto's transformation prevented the extinction of humans. The Siona gene was to ensure a powerfull presient like himself could never rule over all of humanity. I believe that Leto did not look into the future past his time except to ensure humanity survives.

    semuta wrote:He could have remained a bored god infinitely. That was not his agenda.

    Sandchigger wrote:Nor his hybrid body's. He could NOT have remained that way "infinitely".


    Bene Gesserit can adapt their bodies to reduce them aging, to prolong longevity. Leto uses these prana~bindu skills during his symbiosis with the worm. He is ‘killed’ before His transition into a sandworm runs its full course. By ‘indefinitely’ I am pondering at what would have happened if He had found a balance within himself that would hold the wild worm off and maintain his own persona’s control over the hybrid body.


    No, the worm would eventually take over and he would lose control. Maybe if he'd hasd Sheeana's ability to control the worm... but that is speculation on my part.
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby Freakzilla » 08 Aug 2009 19:39

    The rest of what you post makes no sense to me, sorry.
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby loremaster » 09 Aug 2009 10:42

    I cant believe i tried to reply to this guy, twice.

    He's off in the clouds somewhere.

    One thing i would suggest to you, which chigger more-than-satisfactorily demonstrated with


    And I recommend you shove it up your fucking New Age Bullshit arse.


    Is that brevity is a virtue. I'm not gonna waste my time reading through that second page of drivel you've spouted to reply to you. Unless you can provide quotes to back up what you're saying, it's just bullshit.
    The HLP hasnt released Frank's notes yet, Brian hasn't got the handwriting quite right!
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby SandChigger » 09 Aug 2009 11:34

    loremaster wrote:Unless you can provide quotes to back up what you're saying, it's just bullshit.

    Hear, hear!
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby SandRider » 09 Aug 2009 14:16

    Freak wrote:Leto's intention was never to avoid Kralizec, it was to cause it. The hacks twain have influenced your understanding af FH's work. Leto assured us in CoD that Kralizec will come, and it did, between GEoD and HoD. It was called The Famine Times and The Scattering.


    could've used your knowledge & patience on Amazon the last few days, Freak.

    Under Prester Dilly's review, buried in the comments, is an exchange between damn near
    all of us and "David James".

    He said he'd read Frank's Dune (meaning the first book), and one of the silly-books, I think
    The BJ (aha-ha-HA) and that he intended to read them all in "chronological" order,
    meaning the Silly-books intertwined with the real books ....

    I told him he was a FAIL from the beginning then, and would never understand Frank's books.
    He's said repeatedly that he thinks he can keep the two "styles" straight in his mind and not
    let one influence his opinion of the other.

    that may even be true, upon reflection. I guess a newbie could read one then the other and
    be able to point out "style" differences, but the details, plotlines, characters are going to get
    twisted up, I don't care how smart you are.

    and David James seems reasonably intelligent, but not that damn smart.

    we've seen it here before, from OHs who have read the Silly-books & got one of The Jacket's
    conceptions mixed up with the real stuff. I've been tainted by association here, too, reading
    some bit of drivel from the Silly-books and getting it caught up in my mind.

    I told David James in my first response, before I got pissed off at him, that he was the kind
    of person that makes us so goddamned mad @ Keith & the HLP. Frank's Dune is going to be
    ruined and, in fact, inaccessible to him because of the misconceptions he's going to
    pick up from Keith. I told him if he continues with his plan, he will never understand
    Frank's Dune.

    of course, my attack-dog tone put his timid, "let's just all get along" bitch-ass on the defensive,
    so he didn't really listen to my point. Just started calling me crazy, which is not really breaking
    news ...

    a good part of the "OH Manifesto" needs to address this issue ...
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby TheDukester » 09 Aug 2009 14:47

    I began every day by dropping to my knees and thanking God that I have never read any of the McDune series. Then I usually have a waffle.

    I've read bits and pieces from bookstore visits, and I've tried (and mostly failed) to get through some of the sample chapters that are posted online. But it's all so lightweight and meaningless that it's like it just floats away. I swear, 10 minutes after reading a Hacky/Bobo chapter in the bookstore, I can barely remember who was in it.
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby Freakzilla » 09 Aug 2009 19:56

    SandRider wrote:
    Freak wrote:Leto's intention was never to avoid Kralizec, it was to cause it. The hacks twain have influenced your understanding af FH's work. Leto assured us in CoD that Kralizec will come, and it did, between GEoD and HoD. It was called The Famine Times and The Scattering.


    could've used your knowledge & patience on Amazon the last few days, Freak.


    I don't want to comment on books I haven't read.

    Under Prester Dilly's review, buried in the comments, is an exchange between damn near
    all of us and "David James".

    He said he'd read Frank's Dune (meaning the first book), and one of the silly-books, I think
    The BJ (aha-ha-HA) and that he intended to read them all in "chronological" order,
    meaning the Silly-books intertwined with the real books ....

    I told him he was a FAIL from the beginning then, and would never understand Frank's books.
    He's said repeatedly that he thinks he can keep the two "styles" straight in his mind and not
    let one influence his opinion of the other.

    that may even be true, upon reflection. I guess a newbie could read one then the other and
    be able to point out "style" differences, but the details, plotlines, characters are going to get
    twisted up, I don't care how smart you are.

    and David James seems reasonably intelligent, but not that damn smart.

    we've seen it here before, from OHs who have read the Silly-books & got one of The Jacket's
    conceptions mixed up with the real stuff. I've been tainted by association here, too, reading
    some bit of drivel from the Silly-books and getting it caught up in my mind.

    I told David James in my first response, before I got pissed off at him, that he was the kind
    of person that makes us so goddamned mad @ Keith & the HLP. Frank's Dune is going to be
    ruined and, in fact, inaccessible to him because of the misconceptions he's going to
    pick up from Keith. I told him if he continues with his plan, he will never understand
    Frank's Dune.

    of course, my attack-dog tone put his timid, "let's just all get along" bitch-ass on the defensive,
    so he didn't really listen to my point. Just started calling me crazy, which is not really breaking
    news ...

    a good part of the "OH Manifesto" needs to address this issue ...


    This topic is a good exaple. One day he'll be here asking us to make sense of it for him and it will be too late.
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby SandChigger » 09 Aug 2009 21:35

    I doubt that. He's too far up KJA's ass-swamp to ever see his way out. :roll:
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 10 Aug 2009 17:29

    TheDukester wrote:Image



    Gooooood post.

    I am NOT reading all three pages of this gibberish. I could barely make it through half the first post!
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby Freakzilla » 10 Aug 2009 22:03

    For reference, this is Leto II right after Gurney administers the worm trip at Jacurutu:

    He thought: When you study an object from a distance, only its principle may
    be seen. He had achieved the distance and he could see his own life now: the
    multi-past and its memories were his burden, his joy, and his necessity. But the
    worm trip had added another dimension and his father no longer stood guard
    within him because the need no longer existed. Leto saw through the distances
    clearly -- past and present. And the past presented him with an ultimate
    ancestor -- one who was called Harum and without whom the distant future would
    not be. These clear distances provided new principles, new dimensions of
    sharing. Whichever life he now chose, he'd live it out in an autonomous sphere
    of mass experience, a trail of lives so convoluted that no single lifetime could
    count the generations of it. Aroused, this mass experience held the power to
    subdue his selfdom. It could make itself felt upon an individual, a nation, a
    society or an entire civilization. That, of course, was why Gurney had been
    taught to fear him; why Namri's knife waited. They could not be allowed to see
    this power within him. No one could ever see it in its fullness -- not even
    Ghanima.
    Presently Leto sat up, saw that only Namri remained, watching.
    In an old voice, Leto said: "There's no single set of limits for all men.
    Universal prescience is an empty myth. Only the most powerful local currents of
    Time may be foretold. But in an infinite universe, local can be so gigantic that
    your mind shrinks from it."


    Later...

    It was a peculiar walk his mind took. Time filled Leto's awareness like a
    stellar globe. He could see infinite timespaces, but he had to press into his
    own future before knowing in which moment his flesh lay. His multifaceted
    memory-lives surged and receded, but they were his now. They were like waves on
    a beach, but if they rose too high, he could command them and they would
    retreat, leaving the royal Harum behind.
    Now and again he would listen to those memory-lives. One would rise like a
    prompter, poking its head up out of the stage and calling cues for his behavior.
    His father came during the mind-walk and said: "You are a child seeking to be a
    man. When you are a man, you will seek in vain for the child you were."

    ...

    He had seen a future without the great grey worm-serpent of Dune. He knew
    this, yet could not tear himself from the trance to rail against such a passage.
    Abruptly his awareness plunged back -- back, back, away from such a deadly
    future. His thoughts went into his bowels, becoming primitive, moved only by
    intense emotions. He found himself unable to focus on any particular aspect of
    his vision or his surroundings, but there was a voice within him. It spoke an
    ancient language and he understood it perfectly. The voice was musical and
    lilting, but its words bludgeoned him.
    "It is not the present which influences the future, thou fool, but the
    future which forms the present. You have it all backward. Since the future is
    set, an unfolding of events which will assure that future is fixed and
    inevitable."
    The words transfixed him. He felt terror rooted in the heavy matter of his
    body. By this he knew his body still existed, but the reckless nature and
    enormous power of his vision left him feeling contaminated, defenseless, unable
    to signal a muscle and gain its obedience. He knew he was submitting more and
    more to the onslaught of those collective lives whose memories once had made him
    believe he was real. Fear filled him. He thought that he might be losing the
    inner command, falling at last into Abomination.
    Leto felt his body twisting in terror.
    He had come to depend upon his victory and the newly won benevolent
    cooperation of those memories. They had turned against him, all of them -- even
    royal Harum whom he'd trusted. He lay shimmering on a surface which had no
    roots, unable to give any expression to his own life. He tried to concentrate
    upon a mental picture of himself, was confronted by overlapping frames, each a
    different age: infant into doddering ancient. He recalled his father's early
    training: Let the hands grow young, then old. But his whole body was immersed
    now in this lost reality and the entire image progression melted into other
    faces, the features of those who had given him their memories.
    A diamond thunderbolt shattered him.



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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby Freakzilla » 10 Aug 2009 22:06

    ...that and this:

    "You have an admirable directness," Leto said. "I'm a community dominated by
    one who was ancient and surpassingly powerful. He fathered a dynasty which
    endured for three thousand of our years. His name was Harum and, until his line
    trailed out in the congenital weaknesses and superstitions of a descendant, his
    subjects lived in a rhythmic sublimity. They moved unconsciously with the
    changes of the seasons. They bred individuals who tended to be short-lived,
    superstitious, and easily led by a god-king. Taken as a whole, they were a
    powerful people. Their survival as a species became habit."
    "I don't like the sound of that," Farad'n said.

    ...

    "But much more precise," Leto said. "The Bene Gesserit believed they could
    predict the course of evolution. But they overlooked their own changes in the
    course of that evolution. They assumed they would stand still while their
    breeding plan evolved. I have no such reflexive blindness. Look carefully at me,
    Farad'n, for I am no longer human."
    "So your sister assures me." Farad'n hesitated. Then: "Abomination?"
    "By the Sisterhood's definition, perhaps. Harum is cruel and autocratic. I
    partake of his cruelty. Mark me well: I have the cruelty of the husbandman, and
    this human universe is my farm. Fremen once kept tame eagles as pets, but I'll
    keep a tame Farad'n."


    Are all that Harum is mentioned, I believe.
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby semuta » 13 Aug 2009 16:13

    Freak; I dispute that Pinky&theBrain have influenced my understanding of the Duniverse, since I have not read their atrocity. I did begin to read some of it, until my stomach leapt up out of my mouth and tried to strangle me. Okay so I admit that this may have caused some sort of brain damage considering the lack of oxygen to my brain although I still claim it to be a self defense mechanism.

    The fremen myth of Krazilec... we have already discussed how myths reinvent themselves, or are reinvented for the people by the rulers as a political tool. Krazilec was, and is, and will be, and will be again. Whether LetoII reffered to the Famine Times as Krazilec or was indeed referrin to something else (considering the storyline with the Honored Matre fleeing ‘the enemy’ which is as yet unresolved by the end of CHD)... we can only postulate. We know that such a myth has had great influence on the psychologies and therefore actions of the characters in the stories.

    In discussing Dune we are dealing with personal beliefs, with opinions, and that is something that encourages the realm of discourse, and sadly often degenerates into the realm of argument and bitter in-fighting. Divide and conquer was always a technique used to segregate focus groups; ‘give them enough rope and they hang themselves’.
    I love to hear (read) other peoples decipherment and interpretations of Frank Herberts vision. Which has caught all of us up into it.

    [quote=”freakzilla”]the worm would eventually take over and he would lose control. Maybe if he'd hasd Sheeana's ability to control the worm... but that is speculation on my part.[/quote]

    now this is the sort of discourse I enjoy...
    I had assumed that Sheeanas ability to control the worm is directly related to LetoII’s consciousness sleeping within it. Would Sheeana have been able to control a pre-Leto sandworm? Again, conjecture. We have only the internal philosophy of the Duniverse for guidance, which teaches above all to continuously shift randomly to a different, new, perspective to be able to progress.

    [quote=”sandchigger”]OH! Did you mean SHUKRAN, "Thank you" in Arabic? [/quote]

    yes, I meant it, and I also meant to spell it sukran which is the way I was taught it when my guide wrote the english translation in the dust on the streets of Luxor. To illustrate my point that words have different legal spellings when translated, and that the Oral tradition often differs in its daily practicality than the orthodox state versions used to indoctrinate the masses, I would like to point out that the nation that you call China themselves translate the word from chinese glyphs into an english spelling it with an X, not a C. The use of C is an american and english national bias. It is this way all over the world. Picking me up on a spelling mistale does very little to demean the message behind the words; intellectual people seem able to gloss over such typos and get to the intended message. Which is a far more fruitful use of our time here. No offense intended. Offence. Damn I never did learn how to spel dat.

    [quote=”sandchigger"]And I recommend you shove it up your fucking New Age Bullshit arse.[/quote]

    I recomend you learn to discern between New Age philosophies with genuine insights from the tradition of freemasonry. Both of which are very evident in Dune for the initiate. If you stop hurling insults at me and begin trying to think about the pov I am offering here, you might understand that.
    I am not going to get chased off this forum by a few of its regular users just over a difference of opinion. :Adolf: :cat fight: :crazy:

    Hey, thanks for finding those references relating to Harum, Freak :D
    Now perhaps this thread can get back on coarse. on course. How do you spell that? :P

    In the second extract, Leto is watching Other Memory and making observations about how it works, without being consumed by it. I am not sure, the story doesn’t make it specific, as to whether this is how RM consider OM to be used successfully, or if this is some new approach to it that only the kwizatz haderach (male reverend mother) would be able to do. Frank does not define this and thus leaves it open, forcing the reader o read the stroy on two planes at ones, questioning which version of the universe we are in, and somehow maintaining both, in similitude. Frank Herbert speaks of this very thing in book 1 Dune, when the guild navigators themselves do not know if they fold space into the same universe or into a different one.

    For me, this became a main theme of Dune, of what it is about. Frank is playing with it throughout so much of the work, because it is what the messiah characters are dealing with, to an extent that when it disappears in the later books because the age of messiahs has ended, and the story becomes more akin to a ‘normal sci fi story’ of its era (excuse me) than the first books, we find ourselves in a very different Duniverse to the one we had become used to. Do different rules apply to the later books? Or should we maintain the analysis that we have been taught to rely upon throughout the first four?

    If you do not know what I am talking about here, please dont bother replying with a message of how crazy I am, it is a waste fo time. This is something that Frank was exploring in the books and I do not think I have to defend my opinion about it. I would rather only speak with people who also noticed this about Dune. I know that there are some such people using this website.

    Freak, thanks again for those links.


    Okay I am going to paraphrase Dune now and explain this with a visual illustration;

    ‘When I look into the future, I see it as multiple branches stemming out from key moments.’

    At each key moment, we can choose whether to act one way or another. This decides the outcome, the change made to the flow of the world. So we can see here that this tree of many branches, as a pyramid, stemming out from a singularity of Now, into diverse multiple futures. That is a 2D triangle. And yet we do not know which reality we are living in because whoever is controlling the dominant reality, is the one defining the tree. And we do not live in a totalitarian hive culture, we live in a community that functions interdependantly. Therefore there is not one single tree but multiple versions of reality; mulitple trees. The nodes of which all interelate. Hence the pyramid, a 3D triangle.
    I hope that this elucidates some of the earlier comments I made regarding this topic of conversation.
    This is not new age bullshit; this is egyptian freemasonry. If you look at the commonly known masonic symbols (for example the 33 tiered pyramid with the eye on top that is on your dollar bill) then you will comprehend the difference between an ancient tradition with mental perceptual training techniques, and the new age paradigm.
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby SandChigger » 13 Aug 2009 19:00

    semuta wrote:Freak; I dispute that Pinky&theBrain have influenced my understanding of the Duniverse, since I have not read their atrocity.

    Bullshit. You proved the opposite with that crap about a Heighliner "accidently" crashing into Chapter House. A Heighliner crashes into Wallach IX in one of the House books. :)

    I did begin to read some of it, until my stomach leapt up out of my mouth and tried to strangle me.

    Pity you haven't a stronger stomach. :roll:

    The fremen myth of Krazilec...[snip blah blah] We know that such a myth has had great influence on the psychologies and therefore actions of the characters in the stories.

    Yeah, so important it's mentioned IN ONLY ONE BOOK OUT OF SIX.

    (Still ain't figured out that quote tag, have you. Try selecting/highlighting and clicking the little buttons above the edit field instead of typing them yourself: you're inserting a Windows text code for the quotation marks and that screws with the tag codes. :roll: )

    SandChigger wrote:OH! Did you mean SHUKRAN, "Thank you" in Arabic?

    yes, I meant it, and I also meant to spell it sukran which is the way I was taught it when my guide wrote the english translation in the dust on the streets of Luxor.

    Oh, lah tee dah! Ever think he might have had a speech impediment, there, fruitcake? :P Um ... if he wrote the "english translation" wouldn't that have been "Thank you"? (I think you meant "transliteration". ;) Tool.)

    Moron. I would remind you that when we have played this game in the past, you have invariably LOST.

    To illustrate my point that words have different legal spellings when translated, and that the Oral tradition often differs in its daily practicality than the orthodox state versions used to indoctrinate the masses, ...

    TransLITERated. You do realize that THAT is close to gibberish, right?

    I would like to point out that the nation that you call China themselves translate the word from chinese glyphs into an english spelling it with an X, not a C. The use of C is an american and english national bias. It is this way all over the world.

    Shenme? Ni shuo shenme hua ne? Ni ye shuo Hanyu ma?! Haojile! Jiantian tenqi hao ma?

    Seriously, DUMBASS, this is my gongfu. Do you really want to fuck with me regarding something language-related AGAIN? OK. :twisted: I know of NO Chinese name for China that uses "X" (pronounced like a fronted 'sh' sound) when written in romanization. What name exactly were you thinking of?

    Save yourself a bit of public embarrassment next time and do a bit of real research first. I suggest starting here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_China

    Or use an example from a language I don't know anything about. Amharic would work. Welsh even. :P

    Picking me up on a spelling mistale does very little to demean the message behind the words; ...

    What message? "Watch how I profusely can drool verbally on your screen!" :roll:

    intellectual people...

    Fuck you. Seriously. With a hot pointy stick. :)

    sandchigger wrote:And I recommend you shove it up your fucking New Age Bullshit arse.

    I recomend you learn to discern between New Age philosophies with genuine insights from the tradition of freemasonry.

    I feel certain I would find more insight shoving a thumb up my arse and singing "Oh Susanna!" at the top of my lungs.

    This is not new age bullshit; this is egyptian freemasonry.

    Learned at the feet of (=kneeling before?) your guide in some cranny of the ruins of Luxor, right? :laughing-rolling:
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    Re: Leto-Harum

    Postby semuta » 13 Aug 2009 19:35

    sandchigger wrote:You proved the opposite with that crap about a Heighliner "accidently" crashing into Chapter House. A Heighliner crashes into Wallach IX in one of the House books. :)


    You might find if you read some of Frank Herberts books as well that this incident is mentioned in either Heretics of Dune of Chapter House Dune, I can't recall which because I always read these two back to back since one is a continuation of the other & follows the same storylines.

    okay Sandchigger, I have identified you have less interest in talking about Dune and a lot of interest in niggling at me hoping to provoke me into your game. I will not play along because I have no interest in playing childish games. I am using this Dune forum to speak with Dune fans about Dune, which is an open topic. I would prefer to remain progressive and sociable in my interactions with other users. I hope that you can sort out you issues. Thanks for the advice about the tag codes.
    Last edited by semuta on 13 Aug 2009 19:40, edited 1 time in total.
    That's how I wrote the novel, wanting you to participate with the best of your own imagination. I did not aim for the lowest common denominator and 'write down" to anyone. You and I have a compact and my responsibility is to entertain you as richly as possible, always giving you as much extra as I can. I assume you are intelligent and will enlist your own imagination. You'll see that when you read the Dune excerpt and the other stories in this collection.
    FH, Intro to Eye
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