• Register
  • Login
  •          

    Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Image
      Post your own creative writing

    Moderators: Omphalos, Freakzilla, ᴶᵛᵀᴬ

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby mrpsbrk » 11 Jun 2010 15:09

    So, what do i make of that? Well, the "survival" thing is pretty much a given, and has always been. Although "Invisibility" has not many hits, the ones it has are pretty impressive, like Leto's last words. But the "Scattering" hypothesis, Leto does not speak about it at all.

    He does talk about the famine times with Hwi, and i believe that he describes the scattering at some point (didn't find it still). But He never ever says that "the GP is the Scattering". In the Hwi dialogue, for example, she is following the steps after the fall of the Empire eagerly, but then, just as you think He will talk about the Scattering, He pulls a "by then it wont matter no more". He does say that people will recover the capacity to travel far away, but that it is a minor thing. In that dialogue He seems to be more interested in the every-planet-is-a-Salusa-Secundus effect of the famine...

    You more than anyone must know that it is pretty easy to find Leto quotes about almost any kind of attitude change: be creative, do not bend to authority, take care to not be entrapped by religion, bureaucracy, etc, etc. But does any of that actually related directly to the GP? It is fairly easy to assume that they do, indirectly, but is it enough to say that "they are the Golden Path"?

    So, although i know that searching for "Golden Path" is a somewhat artificial measure, is there any other? I am open to try.

    Quite frankly, your view of the GP does seem to be unsupported by the book. Let me analyse the few quotes i actually ticked as "scattering". (36) and (39) are talking about completely unrelated subjects, and the only thing possibly connecting them to your theory was the words "anywhere" and "somewhere". If i had presented something like that to support my views you would mock me. But take (53): "i present to you a time that never converges, it will always diverge". That is reasonably related to Scattering, but first it talks about "time" and not "space" and it also uses this idea of "divergence" that seems to me to require a whole lot of explanation.

    I also extended this experiment to ChoD, HoD and CH:D, with mostly irrelevant results. HoD and Ch:D are mostly other people talking about the GP, and ChoD does have some quotes that are fairly promising to anyone wanting to "speculate wildly", but nothing about Scatter. I haven't tried to search Dune and DM.

    On the other hand, the search on HoD and CH:D does unearth this:

    CH:D wrote:She did not reply, held to silence by his Mentat view. Golden Path: humankind "erupting" into the universe . . . never again confined to any single planet and susceptible to a singular fate. All of our eggs no longer in one basket.


    There, the Scattering hypothesis. It is a mentat calculation by the Ultimate Duncan. It is so well in accordance with Freak's theory of the Golden Path that i call it the Freakzilla-Ultimate-Duncan hypothesis. I understand this might sound as a good point, but why should we take it as more valuable than, say, Taraza's opinion:

    HoD wrote:It was an eternal flaw. Out there in the Scattering, humankind expanded exponentially, swarming across unlimited space. The Tyrant's Golden Path secure at last. Or was it? Surely, the Atreides worm had planned more than the simple survival of the species.

    He did something to us that we have not yet unearthed -- even after all of these millennia. I think I know what he did. My opposition says otherwise.


    I know Ultimate Duncan is a mentat, and he had been Leto's pet dog for 3k years, but... Taraza had access to all the BG mentat's, she had OM well in excess of Duncan's, and after all Duncan was at the time he made his "computation" being fed a restricted amount of data, he was a starved mentat.

    I don't know. When i ask "what is the Golden Path" i am interested in Lord Leto's opinion. Not that Duncan's is bad, or Freak's, i actually think that it might be an interesting line of analysis, but... They are still different things.

    I stand uncorrected. I simply think thou naysayers have not read the books. Cry and moan, if you want, but if you want to discuss Dune for x's sake get rid of your confirmation bias!!!!
    Marcio (mrpsbrk) does believe in Lord Leto over all other wills and reasons ;-)
    User avatar
    mrpsbrk
     
    Posts: 158
    Joined: 20 Dec 2008 11:08
    Location: Brazil

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby SandChigger » 11 Jun 2010 15:15

    Well, there you have it, Freak, you can't argue with the numbers! :lol:

    Oooh, mrpork, what a CLEVER gambit. "You say I haven't read the books? Ha! YOU haven't read the books!" :roll:

    ("Thou" is singular, fuckwit. "Thou naysayers" is ungrammatical. You're a moron. Go FUCK yourself. :) )
    User avatar
    SandChigger
    KJASF Ground Zero
     
    Posts: 14487
    Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
    Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby Freakzilla » 11 Jun 2010 15:20

    Very last chapter in GEoD:

    Excerpt from the Hadi Benotto secret summation on the discoveries at Dar-es-
    Balat:


    Herewith THE minority report. We will, of course, comply with the majority
    decision to apply a careful screening, editing and censorship to the journals
    from Dar-es-Balat, but our arguments must be heard. We recognize the interest of
    Holy Church in these matters and the political dangers have not escaped our
    notice. We share a desire with the Church that Rakis and the Holy Reservation of
    the Divided God not become "an attraction for gawking tourists."
    However, now that all of the journals are in our hands, authenticated and
    translated, the clear shape of the Atreides Design emerges. As a woman trained
    by the Bene Gesserit to understand the ways of our ancestors, I have a natural
    desire to share the pattern we have exposed which is so much more than Dune to
    Arrakis to Dune, thence to Rakis.
    The interests of history and science must be served. The journals throw a
    valuable new light onto that accumulation of personal recollections and
    biographies from the Duncan Days, the Guard Bible. We cannot be unmindful of
    those familiar oaths: "By the Thousand Sons of Idaho!" and "By the Nine
    Daughters of Siona!" The persistent Cult of Sister Chenoeh assumes new
    significance because of the journals' disclosures. Certainly, the Church's
    characterization of Judas/Nayla deserves careful reevaluation.
    We of the Minority must remind the political censors that the poor sandworms in
    their Rakian Reservation cannot provide us with an alternative to Ixian
    Navigation Machines, nor are the tiny amounts of Church-controlled melange any
    real commercial threat to the products of the Tleilaxu vats. No! We argue that
    the myths, the Oral History, the Guard Bible, and even the Holy Books of the
    Divided God must be compared with the journals from Dar-es-Balat. Every
    historical reference
    to the Scattering and the Famine Times has to be taken out and reexamined! What
    have we to fear? No Ixian machine can do what we, the descendants of Duncan
    Idaho and Siona, have done. How many universes have we populated? None can
    guess. No one person will ever know. Does the Church fear the occasional
    prophet? We know that the visionaries cannot see us nor predict our decisions.
    No death can find all of humankind.
    Must we of the Minority join our fellows of
    the Scattering before we can be heard? Must we leave the original core of
    humankind ignorant and uninformed? If the Majority drives us out, you know we
    never again can be found!
    We do not want to leave. We are held here by those pearls in the sand. We are
    fascinated by the Church's use of the pearl as "the sun of understanding."
    Surely, no reasoning human can escape the journals' revelations in this regard.
    The admittedly fugitive but vital uses of archeology must have their day! Just
    as the primitive machine with which Leto II concealed his journals can only teach
    us about the evolution of our machines, just so, that ancient awareness must be
    allowed to speak to us. It would be a crime against both historical accuracy and
    science for us to abandon our attempts at communication with those "pearls of
    awareness" which the journals have located. Is Leto II lost in his endless dream
    or could he be reawakened to our times, brought to full consciousness as a
    storehouse of historical accuracy? How can Holy Church fear this truth?
    For the Minority, we have no doubt that historians must listen to that voice
    from our beginnings. If it is only the journals, we must listen. We must listen
    across at least as many years into our future as those journals lay hidden in
    our past. We will not try to predict the discoveries yet to be made within those
    pages. We say only that they must be made. How can we turn our backs on our most
    important inheritance? As the poet, Lon Bramlis, has said: "We are the fountain
    of surprises!"

    ~GEoD

    Did your copy of GEoD not have the Minority Report in it?
    Image
    Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
    ~Pink Snowman
    User avatar
    Freakzilla
    Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
     
    Posts: 17961
    Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
    Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby TheDukester » 11 Jun 2010 15:36

    This is fun.

    ImageImageImage
    "Anything I write will be remembered and listed in bibliographies on Dune for several hundred years ..." — some delusional halfwit troll.
    User avatar
    TheDukester
     
    Posts: 3808
    Joined: 20 Jun 2008 13:44
    Location: Operation Enduring Bacon

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby mrpsbrk » 11 Jun 2010 15:38

    Freakzilla wrote:Did your copy of GEoD not have the Minority Report in it?


    This is Hadi Benoto's opinion.

    Edit: it doesn't even talk about the Golden Path...

    Edit of the Edit: do you even read those, or you just Ctrl-F?
    Last edited by mrpsbrk on 11 Jun 2010 15:45, edited 1 time in total.
    Marcio (mrpsbrk) does believe in Lord Leto over all other wills and reasons ;-)
    User avatar
    mrpsbrk
     
    Posts: 158
    Joined: 20 Dec 2008 11:08
    Location: Brazil

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby SandChigger » 11 Jun 2010 15:39

    That's right! Pshaw, Freak! Pshaw I say! Pshaw! (Try it, it's fun! :P )

    What is one measly quote against 30 Other quotes! Ha! Ha! Ha! And... PSHAW! :lol:
    User avatar
    SandChigger
    KJASF Ground Zero
     
    Posts: 14487
    Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
    Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby Freakzilla » 11 Jun 2010 15:40

    mrpsbrk wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:Did your copy of GEoD not have the Minority Report in it?


    This is Hadi Benoto's opinion.

    Edit: it doesn't even talk about the Golden Path...


    Well, I'm sorry, but you are not going to find a passage where Leto comes out and says, "These are the elements of the GP..." because FH assumes you are not STUPID.
    Image
    Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
    ~Pink Snowman
    User avatar
    Freakzilla
    Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
     
    Posts: 17961
    Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
    Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby D Pope » 11 Jun 2010 15:44

    I'm not taking a position here or trying to be cynical, i'm only asking the question. What's confirmation bias? I ask because I doubt that you mean what I think it means.
    Last edited by D Pope on 11 Jun 2010 15:47, edited 1 time in total.
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
    -Omphalos
    D Pope
     
    Posts: 1500
    Joined: 14 May 2010 14:11
    Location: Grubville

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby TheDukester » 11 Jun 2010 15:46

    I'm happy to take a position:

    People who keep pounding away when they don't get the answer they are looking for are funny as hell. :lol:
    "Anything I write will be remembered and listed in bibliographies on Dune for several hundred years ..." — some delusional halfwit troll.
    User avatar
    TheDukester
     
    Posts: 3808
    Joined: 20 Jun 2008 13:44
    Location: Operation Enduring Bacon

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby mrpsbrk » 11 Jun 2010 15:46

    D Pope wrote:I'm not taking a position here or trying to be cynical, i'm only asking the question. What's confirmational bias? I ask because I doubt that you mean what I think it means.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
    Marcio (mrpsbrk) does believe in Lord Leto over all other wills and reasons ;-)
    User avatar
    mrpsbrk
     
    Posts: 158
    Joined: 20 Dec 2008 11:08
    Location: Brazil

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby merkin muffley » 11 Jun 2010 15:47

    Freakzilla wrote:No Ixian machine can do what we, the descendants of Duncan
    Idaho and Siona, have done. How many universes have we populated? None can
    guess. No one person will ever know. Does the Church fear the occasional
    prophet? We know that the visionaries cannot see us nor predict our decisions.
    No death can find all of humankind.


    But THAT doesn't fit the search parameters!

    mrpsbrk wrote:On the other hand, the search on HoD and CH:D does unearth this:

    CH:D wrote:She did not reply, held to silence by his Mentat view. Golden Path: humankind "erupting" into the universe . . . never again confined to any single planet and susceptible to a singular fate. All of our eggs no longer in one basket.



    Oops. All that, and it ran aground, didn't it. Even though you might've looked at the words it doesn't mean you've comprehended anything. Again, your desire to be a genius has led you to create a theory without bothering to figure anything out. Actually, there isn't really a theory here at all, and you've ended up, as you always do, back at "I don't know... I am just asking a question. But." You pseudo-intellectual penis-face. You fart-knocker. You compulsively-masturbating, cauliflower-dicked, cock-mangler.
    "I must admit, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor...."
    User avatar
    merkin muffley
     
    Posts: 1584
    Joined: 23 Apr 2010 15:18
    Location: War Room

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby D Pope » 11 Jun 2010 15:50

    Oh! Smart! New to me. Very glad it's not what I thought it was.
    Last edited by D Pope on 11 Jun 2010 16:28, edited 1 time in total.
    Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
    -Omphalos
    D Pope
     
    Posts: 1500
    Joined: 14 May 2010 14:11
    Location: Grubville

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby mrpsbrk » 11 Jun 2010 15:52

    Freakzilla wrote:Well, I'm sorry, but you are not going to find a passage where Leto comes out and says, "These are the elements of the GP..." because FH assumes you are not STUPID.


    But, actually, you DO find those quotes. Actually, He says a lot of things. If you want a plain, hardly disputable view, you have to go with Siona is the GP. He spells it out in no uncertain terms. He also says that it is a "lesson your bones will remember". And if you like those books enough to DIG into what they MEAN, then we could actually EXPLORE what is that "lesson", instead of accusing each other of not reading the books.

    For example:

    COD wrote:Leto spoke in a conversational tone, masking his own tensions, the balancing effort this other-level contest required. "I have no passionate belief in truth, no faith other than what I create," he said. And he felt then a movement between himself and his father, something with granular characteristics which touched only Leto's own passionately subjective belief in himself. By such belief he knew that he posted the markers of the Golden Path. Someday such markers could tell others how to be human, a strange gift from a creature who no longer would be human on that day. But these markers were always set in place by gamblers. Leto felt them scattered throughout the landscape of his inner lives and, feeling this, poised himself for the ultimate gamble.
    Marcio (mrpsbrk) does believe in Lord Leto over all other wills and reasons ;-)
    User avatar
    mrpsbrk
     
    Posts: 158
    Joined: 20 Dec 2008 11:08
    Location: Brazil

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby Freakzilla » 11 Jun 2010 15:54

    merkin muffley wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:No Ixian machine can do what we, the descendants of Duncan
    Idaho and Siona, have done. How many universes have we populated? None can
    guess. No one person will ever know. Does the Church fear the occasional
    prophet? We know that the visionaries cannot see us nor predict our decisions.
    No death can find all of humankind.


    But THAT doesn't fit the search parameters!


    My bad!

    mrpsbrk wrote:On the other hand, the search on HoD and CH:D does unearth this:

    CH:D wrote:She did not reply, held to silence by his Mentat view. Golden Path: humankind "erupting" into the universe . . . never again confined to any single planet and susceptible to a singular fate. All of our eggs no longer in one basket.



    But it's not called "The Scattering" in that quote. :lol:

    Oops. All that, and it ran aground, didn't it. Even though you might've looked at the words it doesn't mean you've comprehended anything. Again, your desire to be a genius has led you to create a theory without bothering to figure anything out. Actually, there isn't really a theory here at all, and you've ended up, as you always do, back at "I don't know... I am just asking a question. But." You pseudo-intellectual penis-face. You fart-knocker. You compulsively-masturbating, cauliflower-dicked, cock-mangler.


    Go easy, Leonard...
    Image
    Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
    ~Pink Snowman
    User avatar
    Freakzilla
    Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
     
    Posts: 17961
    Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
    Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby Freakzilla » 11 Jun 2010 15:56

    mrpsbrk wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:Well, I'm sorry, but you are not going to find a passage where Leto comes out and says, "These are the elements of the GP..." because FH assumes you are not STUPID.


    But, actually, you DO find those quotes. Actually, He says a lot of things. If you want a plain, hardly disputable view, you have to go with Siona is the GP. He spells it out in no uncertain terms. He also says that it is a "lesson your bones will remember". And if you like those books enough to DIG into what they MEAN, then we could actually EXPLORE what is that "lesson", instead of accusing each other of not reading the books.

    For example:

    COD wrote:Leto spoke in a conversational tone, masking his own tensions, the balancing effort this other-level contest required. "I have no passionate belief in truth, no faith other than what I create," he said. And he felt then a movement between himself and his father, something with granular characteristics which touched only Leto's own passionately subjective belief in himself. By such belief he knew that he posted the markers of the Golden Path. Someday such markers could tell others how to be human, a strange gift from a creature who no longer would be human on that day. But these markers were always set in place by gamblers. Leto felt them scattered throughout the landscape of his inner lives and, feeling this, poised himself for the ultimate gamble.


    OK. I'm going to explain this to you ONE MORE TIME...

    Siona is the GP because the prescient cannot see her nor her descendants. This allows humanity to SCATTER to where they can't all be found.

    I'm done with this guy...
    Image
    Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
    ~Pink Snowman
    User avatar
    Freakzilla
    Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
     
    Posts: 17961
    Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
    Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby Freakzilla » 11 Jun 2010 15:58

    Nobody is saying those are the only components to the GP, just the main ones.

    While ensuring humanities survival he also tries to teach other lessons, which you seem to have found.
    Image
    Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
    ~Pink Snowman
    User avatar
    Freakzilla
    Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
     
    Posts: 17961
    Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
    Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby merkin muffley » 11 Jun 2010 15:58

    Freakzilla wrote:Go easy, Leonard...

    :)
    "I must admit, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor...."
    User avatar
    merkin muffley
     
    Posts: 1584
    Joined: 23 Apr 2010 15:18
    Location: War Room

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby Thodol » 11 Jun 2010 23:17

    I now understand why nu-dune sells. How someone willing to dedicate the time in an attempt to refute the obvious. While simply being unable to grasp even the most basic premise of the topic is astounding. And on top of that being snotty? Arrogance and stupidity horrid combination.
    Thodol
     
    Posts: 27
    Joined: 31 May 2010 09:42

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby Nekhrun » 12 Jun 2010 09:47

    mrpsbrk wrote:So, what do i make of that?


    I think that we already know what you think of that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphasia#Signs_and_symptoms
    "If he was here to discuss Dune, he sure as hell picked a dumb way to do it." -Omphalos :character-cookiemonster:

    Happy Memorial Day everyone! -James C. Harwood

    "Three of my videos have over 100 views."
    "Over 500 views for my 'Open Question' video." -Nebiros
    User avatar
    Nekhrun
    Icelandic Wiener
     
    Posts: 3287
    Joined: 10 Feb 2008 16:27

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 13 Jun 2010 14:27

    I think you're also missing the aspect that GEoD *gradually reveals* the nature of the Golden Path to the reader. There's no passage in which Leto says "And now, Duncan, the time has come to tell you *exactly* what the Golden Path is, and how it will succeed ...", because FH has us discover that for ourselves. We have to put the pieces together - the Siona gene, the Ixian navigation machines, the response of a suddenly-unfettered humanity after 3500 years of tyranny.

    Throughout the book, Leto isn't so much describing the mechanisms of the Golden Path as the reasons for it and what it will do. In broad terms, because FH doesn't want to give the game away too soon.

    The passages at the end of GEoD, Hod and CH:D *confirm* what the reader should have already discovered.

    And for the last time, the GP is not *just* about distance or numbers. It's about what the Scattering *gains* you, and about what its effects are.

    HBJ
    "The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
    - Carl Sagan

    I'm still very proud of The Quarry but … let's face it; in the end the real best way to sign off would have been with a great big rollicking Culture novel.
    - Iain Banks
    User avatar
    Hunchback Jack
     
    Posts: 1980
    Joined: 30 May 2008 15:02
    Location: California, USA

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby Kensai » 07 Jul 2010 16:12

    SandChigger wrote:
    mrpsbrk wrote:Geez, come on, the "controlled by a single power" thing adds a lot of wrinkles to the whole shebang!

    You're a fucking moron. Seriously.

    Since pulling it out is obviously no longer an option, why don't you try shoving your head even further up your ass? Who knows, you might be able to force it back out between your shoulders again! Wouldn't that be something for the annals! :lol:


    I just laughed for five minites.

    :D :clap:

    Image
    Survival is the ultimate ideology Image
    Image
    User avatar
    Kensai
     
    Posts: 185
    Joined: 25 Jun 2010 11:08
    Location: Onn

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby merkin muffley » 07 Jul 2010 16:28

    Thufferin' Thucotash, not the Bene Gesserith again!
    "I must admit, you have an astonishingly good idea there, Doctor...."
    User avatar
    merkin muffley
     
    Posts: 1584
    Joined: 23 Apr 2010 15:18
    Location: War Room

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby SandChigger » 07 Jul 2010 17:26

    Oh, darn! I saw this thread in the new posts results and thought mrpork had come back! :(

    I was looking forward to ignoring him! :lol:
    User avatar
    SandChigger
    KJASF Ground Zero
     
    Posts: 14487
    Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
    Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby reverendmotherQ. » 15 Oct 2010 19:46

    mrpsbrk wrote:
    Besides, it is not completely fair to say that the BG didn't try. They for example put a lot of effort into a breeding program and into religion engineering -- tools that Leto would then just take for himself. They were trying to "mature humanity", so, even if they did not start the scattering, they did work in some directions that Leto approved of, as He Himself said.


    The goal of the breeding program was not the same as that of the Golden Path. The breeding program focused on tool creation. The golden path was concerned with creating the new - that which institutions like the Bene Gesserit fought tooth and nail against. The Bene Gesserit are targeted by the GP's aims as well.

    Leto II clearly knew that.

    Gah I hope I am not making assumptions, but that statement really gets on my nerves.
    Trying doesn't count here.

    Robspierre wrote:The Golden Path could not have guardians. It was designed in such a way that it would continue on despite the best efforts of guardians to guide it. That was part of the point of the GP. No matter who tried to interfere and for what reasons the GP would still take place.

    Rob


    You know, I just have to :clap: for you for that.


    mrpsbrk wrote:It is NOT a speculation. I am just asking for a quote. Can you provide one? Can i take that as a no?



    That infuriates me - do you lack the capacity to investigate for yourself. DO IT MISTER!

    Freakzilla wrote:Siona is the GP because the prescient cannot see her nor her descendants. This allows humanity to SCATTER to where they can't all be found.


    This reminds me to reread Heretics since I was terribly mind fucked by the Anderson travesties in HOD(that book made me realize how screwed up him and his buddy Brian were in their approach to the story). That statement makes a lot of sense when I remember certain scenes in the book - only vaguely though. Would it be accurate to say that she is the embodiment of what his plan strove to achieve? I suppose I must answer that for myself by rereading it.
    User avatar
    reverendmotherQ.
     
    Posts: 274
    Joined: 05 Feb 2010 15:38
    Location: Cylon Colony

    Re: Bene Gesserith as custodians of the Golden Path

    Postby Freakzilla » 15 Oct 2010 20:45

    reverendmotherQ. wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:Siona is the GP because the prescient cannot see her nor her descendants. This allows humanity to SCATTER to where they can't all be found.


    This reminds me to reread Heretics since I was terribly mind fucked by the Anderson travesties in HOD(that book made me realize how screwed up him and his buddy Brian were in their approach to the story). That statement makes a lot of sense when I remember certain scenes in the book - only vaguely though. Would it be accurate to say that she is the embodiment of what his plan strove to achieve? I suppose I must answer that for myself by rereading it.


    Well, of course.

    The Lord Leto said, "See that you do. Tell your Sisters also that the Bene
    Gesserit of all people should know the dangers of breeding for a particular
    characteristic, of seeking a defined genetic goal."
    Sister Chenoeh says this was an obvious reference to the Lord Leto's father,
    Paul Atreides. Let it be noted that our breeding program achieved the Kwisatz
    Haderach one generation early. In becoming Muad'Dib, the leader of the Fremen,
    Paul Atreides escaped from our control. There is no doubt that he was a male
    with the powers of a Reverend Mother and other powers for which humankind still
    is paying a heavy price. As the Lord Leto said:
    "You got the unexpected. You got me, the wild card. And I have achieved Siona."

    ~GEoD
    Image
    Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
    ~Pink Snowman
    User avatar
    Freakzilla
    Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
     
    Posts: 17961
    Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
    Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA

    PreviousNext

    Return to ˲

    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest