The Golden Path

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JustSomeGuy
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The Golden Path

Postby JustSomeGuy » 19 Feb 2012 21:28

What is "The Golden Path"?
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Freakzilla
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby Freakzilla » 19 Feb 2012 21:44

:doh:
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JustSomeGuy
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby JustSomeGuy » 19 Feb 2012 21:50

No, really. Tell me... I would like to hear it in your words.
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JustSomeGuy
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby JustSomeGuy » 19 Feb 2012 22:04

Yeah, I know:
Leto II's plan for the survival of mankind

I mean, I would like to hear your thoughts about it.
I'll start off...
An oracle is shielded from an oracle- something like that, right? Was it Leto's plan to populate the universe with people like himself? I'll stop right there.
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lotek
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby lotek » 20 Feb 2012 07:42

JustSomeGuy wrote:What is "The Golden Path"?

Spice is the worm's gonads.

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Freakzilla
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby Freakzilla » 20 Feb 2012 11:39

Did you read the books?
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JustSomeGuy
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby JustSomeGuy » 20 Feb 2012 11:56

Freakzilla wrote:Did you read the books?

:roll:

Let me try again...
No, really. Tell me... I would like to hear it in your words.

Not just "Leto II's plan for the survival of mankind," but an explanation of that plan.
An oracle is shielded from an oracle- something like that, right? Was it Leto's plan to populate the universe with people like himself?


The Golden Path still allows for the possibility of human extinction, right?
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lotek
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby lotek » 20 Feb 2012 12:39

JustSomeGuy wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Did you read the books?

:roll:

Let me try again...



But what are you trying to do, that's the 10 grand question now isn't it ?
Spice is the worm's gonads.

DragEgusku
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby DragEgusku » 20 Feb 2012 14:01

I understand Golden Path as Leto's plan to change humanity (not only its survival).
In other words, Leto tried to change the collective mindset of humanity, to replace old with new.
Reading GEoD, I had the impression that Leto's vision of humanity is that it remained petrified in patterns that eventually would lead to extinction.
Leto wanted to change this, to break patterns. It took over 3500 years to do this.

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JustSomeGuy
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby JustSomeGuy » 22 Feb 2012 01:25

It seems to me that "The Golden Path" is one which leads out into the unknown, where everything is possible. A Golden Path for everyone.
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Freakzilla
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby Freakzilla » 22 Feb 2012 10:59

It helps if you don't actually think of it as a path.

Leto's enforced tranquility and leading by bad example taught humanity to be careful about their heros and what it is they actually want.
By denying manking space travel Leto gave man a yearning to explore.
Encouraging the development of the INM gave man the ability to do so.
Breeding for the Siona gene and promoting no-field tech enabled them to do so without leaving a trace.

Thus, all humanity can't be extinguished by a single threat nor influenced by a powerful prescient.
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JustSomeGuy
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby JustSomeGuy » 22 Feb 2012 20:25

Freakzilla wrote:It helps if you don't actually think of it as a path.

That's why I wrote "The Golden Path." :P
I agree with everything you had to say. I don't really have anything to add. Man, after all these years I still wonder what "Dune 7" would have been like! *sigh*
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby SandChigger » 24 Feb 2012 04:29

Secher might better be thought of as "plan" or "stratagem". "Path" seems to confuse people too much...

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Miles Teg
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby Miles Teg » 25 Mar 2012 19:58

Freakzilla wrote:It helps if you don't actually think of it as a path.

Leto's enforced tranquility and leading by bad example taught humanity to be careful about their heros and what it is they actually want.
By denying manking space travel Leto gave man a yearning to explore.
Encouraging the development of the INM gave man the ability to do so.
Breeding for the Siona gene and promoting no-field tech enabled them to do so without leaving a trace.

Thus, all humanity can't be extinguished by a single threat nor influenced by a powerful prescient.


Hi to all of you! Leto said what he wanted most was a universe of surprises. That's what I think of when I think of the Golden Path. He sees that he can be the savior of humanity, and becomes inhuman for that to occur, his price to pay for the survival of the race in a universe of surprises.
"Interesting times, Murbella."

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Freakzilla
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby Freakzilla » 25 Mar 2012 20:18

Miles Teg wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:It helps if you don't actually think of it as a path.

Leto's enforced tranquility and leading by bad example taught humanity to be careful about their heros and what it is they actually want.
By denying manking space travel Leto gave man a yearning to explore.
Encouraging the development of the INM gave man the ability to do so.
Breeding for the Siona gene and promoting no-field tech enabled them to do so without leaving a trace.

Thus, all humanity can't be extinguished by a single threat nor influenced by a powerful prescient.


Hi to all of you! Leto said what he wanted most was a universe of surprises. That's what I think of when I think of the Golden Path. He sees that he can be the savior of humanity, and becomes inhuman for that to occur, his price to pay for the survival of the race in a universe of surprises.


I thought his desire for a universe of surprises was a reference to prescience.

Leto loved surprises, even nasty ones.
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Miles Teg
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby Miles Teg » 25 Mar 2012 20:56

Yes I agree, something specific you're pointing to?
"Interesting times, Murbella."

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Freakzilla
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby Freakzilla » 25 Mar 2012 21:14

Moneo managed a tight smile at this compliment, his thoughts leaning more and
more toward the belief that he now understood Leto's intentions. The dangers,
though!
Feeding his belief, Leto said: "You know how much I enjoy surprises."
That is true, Leto thought. Moneo does know it. But even while Siona surprises
me, she reminds me of what I fear most-the sameness and boredom which could
break the Golden Path. Look at how boredom put me temporarily in the Duncan's
power! Siona is the contrast by which I know my deepest fears. Moneo's concern
for me is well grounded.
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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Freakzilla
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby Freakzilla » 25 Mar 2012 21:16

.............................................I assure you that the ability to view our
futures can become a bore. Even to be thought of as a god, as I certainly was,
can become ultimately boring. It has occurred to me more than once that holy
boredom is good and sufficient reason for the invention of free will.

-Inscription on the storehouse at bar-es-Balat
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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Miles Teg
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby Miles Teg » 25 Mar 2012 22:08

I agree with him, I can't think of anything more boring than to know how things turn out. This is what The Golden Path prevents for Leto and everyone else, plodding into a boring, already read the book future.

It has occurred to me more than once that holy
boredom is good and sufficient reason for the invention of free will.


FH is confronting the dilemma of free will and predestination, and as long as any one mind holds sway over the future, including his, humanity is doomed.
"Interesting times, Murbella."

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inhuien
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby inhuien » 27 Mar 2012 05:56

Although it should be said that free will and predestination are not mutually exclusive.
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Miles Teg
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby Miles Teg » 28 Mar 2012 21:24

inhuien wrote:Although it should be said that free will and predestination are not mutually exclusive.


I know a lot of people who believe that, but I don't think FH is one of them. The Sisters goaded The Whores into burning Dune to a cinder. They didn't want The Tyrant's influence on the future around.
"Interesting times, Murbella."

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Re: The Golden Path

Postby Freakzilla » 28 Mar 2012 22:24

Miles Teg wrote:
inhuien wrote:Although it should be said that free will and predestination are not mutually exclusive.


I know a lot of people who believe that, but I don't think FH is one of them. The Sisters goaded The Whores into burning Dune to a cinder. They didn't want The Tyrant's influence on the future around.


Or maybe they just wanted the sources of spice destroyed so they'd be the only one once they figured out they spice cycle or made Scytale crack.

:wink:
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby blowholesofdune » 06 Apr 2012 01:26

I think more to the point, Leto II's philosphy was "as long as you hate me, you will never want someone like me again."

I think it's particularly important to consider today's political climate. What I mean to say is, we had a leader four years ago we hated and we knew(with the economy like it was and is now) we didn't want someone like him again, yet here we are, still in the same boat with another leader with near total control and things aren't looking much better. But once Leto is gone, mankind can make up it's own mind and determine where they want to go(the whole universe full of surprises idea).

Essentially, prescience and predetermination are bonds that he is trying to free us from, along with a lone powerful leader. By enslaving us all planet-side and not being able to travel space, he is teaching humanity a harsh lesson about following a charismatic leader. It's a two-fold lesson.
“There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on, shame on you. Fool me, you can’t get fooled again.” —In regards to my opinion of the na-dune books.

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Freakzilla
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby Freakzilla » 06 Apr 2012 04:19

We still have one we hate, it's just the other half of the country doing the hating now. :wink:
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Re: The Golden Path

Postby blowholesofdune » 06 Apr 2012 12:22

Freakzilla wrote:We still have one we hate, it's just the other half of the country doing the hating now. :wink:


That's what I meant. :wink:
“There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on, shame on you. Fool me, you can’t get fooled again.” —In regards to my opinion of the na-dune books.


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