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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 27 Aug 2009 19:30

    I like stories where the protagonists loose. Like Dune Messiah.
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Freakzilla » 27 Aug 2009 19:42

    "THE BODY AND SOUL OF THE BENE GESSERIT WILL MEET THE SAME FATE AS ALL OTHER
    BODIES AND ALL OTHER SOULS."
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 27 Aug 2009 19:44

    :shock:

    Okay, *that* was a spine-tingling moment.

    HBJ
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Drunken Idaho » 27 Aug 2009 19:47

    Freakzilla wrote:I have not finished Dune...


    EXPOSED!


    :P
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Freakzilla » 27 Aug 2009 19:47

    Hunchback Jack wrote::shock:

    Okay, *that* was a spine-tingling moment.

    HBJ


    True...
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Freakzilla » 27 Aug 2009 19:48

    Drunken Idaho wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:I have not finished Dune...


    EXPOSED!


    :P


    :oops: :D Like anyone believes that.
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Slugger » 27 Aug 2009 19:53

    Would the union between the BG and HM be sufficient or would their complete destruction be more fitting towards "THE SAME FATE AS ALL OTHER
    BODIES AND ALL OTHER SOULS.

    And what about Sheeana and her supporters on-board the no-ship? They have everything to restart the BG and the BT (although I am of the notion that Frank never intended to resurrect Paul, Chani, Leto, etc).
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Freakzilla » 27 Aug 2009 19:55

    Slugger wrote:Would the union between the BG and HM be sufficient or would their complete destruction be more fitting towards "THE SAME FATE AS ALL OTHER
    BODIES AND ALL OTHER SOULS.


    "WHAT IS SURVIVAL IF YOU DO NOT SURVIVE WHOLE?"

    And what about Sheeana and her supporters on-board the no-ship? They have everything to restart the BG and the BT (although I am of the notion that Frank never intended to resurrect Paul, Chani, Leto, etc).


    You mean God Empress Sheeana? :wink:
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 27 Aug 2009 19:56

    I have no idea what plan FH had for the lost no-ship, or Sheeana. I've often wondered where he was going with that, and I guess I'll never know (which in and of itself is enough reason to hate KJABH).
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Freakzilla » 27 Aug 2009 19:59

    A Thing of Eternity wrote:I have no idea what plan FH had for the lost no-ship, or Sheeana. I've often wondered where he was going with that, and I guess I'll never know (which in and of itself is enough reason to hate KJABH).


    BOOOOOO!

    I have some pretty good ideas, one day I'll write an outline.
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 27 Aug 2009 20:00

    Freakzilla wrote:
    A Thing of Eternity wrote:I have no idea what plan FH had for the lost no-ship, or Sheeana. I've often wondered where he was going with that, and I guess I'll never know (which in and of itself is enough reason to hate KJABH).


    BOOOOOO!

    I have some pretty good ideas, one day I'll write an outline.


    booo what?
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Freakzilla » 27 Aug 2009 20:01

    A Thing of Eternity wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:
    A Thing of Eternity wrote:I have no idea what plan FH had for the lost no-ship, or Sheeana. I've often wondered where he was going with that, and I guess I'll never know (which in and of itself is enough reason to hate KJABH).


    BOOOOOO!

    I have some pretty good ideas, one day I'll write an outline.


    booo what?


    KJABH for not letting us in on the notes and outline.
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 27 Aug 2009 20:02

    Freakzilla wrote:
    A Thing of Eternity wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:
    A Thing of Eternity wrote:I have no idea what plan FH had for the lost no-ship, or Sheeana. I've often wondered where he was going with that, and I guess I'll never know (which in and of itself is enough reason to hate KJABH).


    BOOOOOO!

    I have some pretty good ideas, one day I'll write an outline.


    booo what?


    KJABH for not letting us in on the notes and outline.


    Ah, indeed then.
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 27 Aug 2009 20:02

    Slugger wrote:And what about Sheeana and her supporters on-board the no-ship? They have everything to restart the BG and the BT ...


    Yes, but will they? The presence of Duncan and Sheeana indicates that there are more possibilities than just a recreation of the old Empire structures. (No idea what, though).

    I agree with you about the gholas, by the way. If any had been resurrected, I think they would have been killed.

    HBJ
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Slugger » 27 Aug 2009 20:22

    Freakzilla wrote:
    Slugger wrote:Would the union between the BG and HM be sufficient or would their complete destruction be more fitting towards "THE SAME FATE AS ALL OTHER
    BODIES AND ALL OTHER SOULS.


    "WHAT IS SURVIVAL IF YOU DO NOT SURVIVE WHOLE?"


    Touche.
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Drunken Idaho » 27 Aug 2009 20:36

    Okay, so the Old Empire might have been wiped out, but there's no way Sheeana was about to "restart" the BG someplace else. IIRC, at the end of CH:D she went on about going out there and creating a "work of art" of her own, implying something brand new. I definitely got the vibe that this was something along the lines of "God Empress."

    And as for gholas, I happen to think that Frank intended to bring back many of the important characters. Daniel said "Gholas. He's welcome to them." at the very last line of the book. Being the last line, my impression was that Frank was saying "You can expect a return of Paul & co."
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Redstar » 27 Aug 2009 20:51

    I imagined the ghola cells in Scytale was merely a shotgun shooting plot-blanks. I can't imagine the BG wanting/allowing Paul himself running around.
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby SandRider » 27 Aug 2009 21:14

    been holding on to this one forever, guess here's the place to leave it ....

    I believe Marty & Daniel were the next Great Teachers of Humanity ....


    (there is no reason to believe they were "enemies" of humanity -
    enemies of the Honored Matres, sure, but the HM were some mean, foul bitches ...)

    I became fully convinced of that when Spinrad talked about the democratic model.
    Marty & Daniel broke free of their Masters & determined their own fate ....
    ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby E. LeGuille » 27 Aug 2009 23:00

    SandRider wrote:been holding on to this one forever, guess here's the place to leave it ....

    I believe Marty & Daniel were the next Great Teachers of Humanity ....


    (there is no reason to believe they were "enemies" of humanity -
    enemies of the Honored Matres, sure, but the HM were some mean, foul bitches ...)

    I became fully convinced of that when Spinrad talked about the democratic model.
    Marty & Daniel broke free of their Masters & determined their own fate ....


    Hm. And that would come into conflict with the Old Empire structure, and there would be a war of Independence. To allow for democracy, or to hold on to the Old Empire?
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Hunchback Jack » 27 Aug 2009 23:23

    SandRider wrote:(there is no reason to believe they were "enemies" of humanity -
    enemies of the Honored Matres, sure, but the HM were some mean, foul bitches ...)

    completely agree. After all, fh didn't consider the breakdown of a destructive society as the work of villains :).

    HBJ
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby SandRider » 27 Aug 2009 23:44

    I believe "Dune 7" would have revolved around Marty & Daniel
    teaching the Bene Geserit how to be human.
    ................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby TheDukester » 27 Aug 2009 23:49

    Either that or SkyNet rejects riding on the backs of ultra-waterworms with kewl pew-pew-pew lazers! That would be aw3s0mE !!11!one!!1
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Redstar » 27 Aug 2009 23:52

    SandRider wrote:I believe "Dune 7" would have revolved around Marty & Daniel
    teaching the Bene Geserit how to be human.

    I like this rendition the most.

    History is written by the winners, or in this case the losers (HM). Who knows what the EoMF were really about?
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Lundse » 28 Aug 2009 05:58

    SandRider wrote:I believe "Dune 7" would have revolved around Marty & Daniel
    teaching the Bene Geserit how to be human.


    I think you are on to something. But I don't think it would have gone smoothly - also because it would have been the entire old empire which would have been subjected to certain lessons. I don't know exactly about the no-ship; it seems impossible to make it relevant to the old empire since they went "off the map". Maybe they could become able to "bargain" with M&D from an entirely different part of the universe - striving to convince them to let the old empire live, or maybe (and this is where it becomes interesting and harkens back to the jihad) to let the old empire alone and decide its own fate instead of having perfect rulers...?
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    Re: Daniel and Marty

    Postby Slugger » 28 Aug 2009 09:43

    Do you think that Frank would have destroyed the Old Empire, like he destroyed Dune? Would Chapterhouse be the next planet to be exterminated, since the Old Empire might begin to focus on it as they did with Dune?
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