The Spice, I'd like to know...

Image
    Can't find the appropriate forum for your topic? Post it here!

Moderators: ᴶᵛᵀᴬ, Omphalos, Freakzilla

D Pope
Posts: 1500
Joined: 14 May 2010 14:11
Location: Grubville

Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...

Postby D Pope » 18 Jan 2011 12:43

I checked the two books i've got handy, one might be a first edition and the other is a 1986 paperback, both exactly the same.
I'm not pitching against an error, just that there's no change in my references.
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
-Omphalos

User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14490
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"
Contact:

Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...

Postby SandChigger » 18 Jan 2011 19:23

Come on, we know the books aren't without errors. (Farok's Magic Arm, yes?)

Is there a way to make sense of it if it's melange?

Any other references to concentrated solutions of melange having to be "changed" like WoL?

If not, there are two possibilities:

1. Everything we think we understand about the spice is wrong.
2. It's an error.

Total up the evidence for both sides. :)

(I'm fine with it being an error. ;) )

D Pope
Posts: 1500
Joined: 14 May 2010 14:11
Location: Grubville

Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...

Postby D Pope » 18 Jan 2011 19:28

I'm grudgingly ok with it being an error. I just hoped for another revelation. :(
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
-Omphalos

User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14490
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"
Contact:

Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...

Postby SandChigger » 19 Jan 2011 01:42

In that, good sir, thy heart is pure. :)

User avatar
SandRider
Watermaster
Posts: 6163
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
Location: In the back of your mind. Always.
Contact:

Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...

Postby SandRider » 10 May 2011 08:12

you get point right here : :teasing-nutkick:
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
ImageImage

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008

georgiedenbro
Posts: 773
Joined: 11 Jun 2014 13:56
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...

Postby georgiedenbro » 08 Sep 2014 12:05

SandChigger wrote:Is there a way to make sense of it if it's melange?

Any other references to concentrated solutions of melange having to be "changed" like WoL?

If not, there are two possibilities:

1. Everything we think we understand about the spice is wrong.
2. It's an error.


We could always assert that "melange" is some generic term meaning 'derived from sandworms'. The spice melange would be the edible stuff, the liquid melange, aka water of life, would be the other thing. "Melange" always seemed to me to be a descriptor rather than a type of thing, whereas 'spice' seems like what the dried thing itself is, just as 'water' (liquid) is what the other thing is. That said, I don't know that there's a reason to get hung up on tech details about these substances. We're given terms in the books like 'spice liquor', 'spice melange', 'water of life', 'the geriatric spice.' I think the main point here is the spice cycle and its implication, and not the exact properties of each of these fictional substances. Recall that "water of life" is a currently used term to generically describe liquor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eau_de_vie

Although in the books there is evidence that 'spice liquor' and 'changed water of life' are different things, the fact that "water of life" (linguistically) just means "liquor" seems to me to suggest that Frank wasn't that hung up about going deep into these details. Maybe the spice could be fermented into a liquor...maybe changed water of life was exported and no one was told how it was made. Who knows.

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I think the whole truth trance and truth drug thing was maybe something FH would have edited out if he'd done revisions years later, might have been one of those half-developed ideas that just didn't pan out, but the thing was already published so he just contented himself with pretty much never mentioning it again.


It's easy to forget the fact that it's a series involving a lot of drug use, in additional to mental training. In the case of the BG, the members have to train just to be able to be strong enough to withstand the more powerful drugs. It was the drugs, and not the minds alone, that opened the possibilities for things like truth trance and Navigator calculations. The 'truth drug' and other drugs were "awareness spectrum drugs", aka awareness enhancing drugs. While a RM's talents would be enough to detect 'obvious' lies, the drug would presumably raise their awareness to a level where no one could fool them, even masters of lying. The truth trance would just be the state of the RM while on the enhancing drug. This, I think, is why there seems to be an equivalence between a truthsayer and a RM: Only a RM could withstand the drug and be certain her awareness was high enough to detect every single possible lie. Think of the implications in even a small margin of error; just as drastic as a suk training not being 100% effective. Paul, himself, had a natural truthsense, but he seems to only become impervious to falsehood after taking the WoL. As Freak pointed out earlier, the truth sense seems to be a natural talent, maybe bred in. The drug enhances that talent to the point where it is infallible, if the user can survive the drug.
"um-m-m-ah-h-h-hm-m-m-m!"

D Pope
Posts: 1500
Joined: 14 May 2010 14:11
Location: Grubville

Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...

Postby D Pope » 08 Sep 2014 14:30

I'm thinking that it's Franks intention to leave many details vague, open ended, & un-pin-downable.
In a lot of ways it does improve the story, sometimes, looking as closely as we fans do, it does not.

Please add to the list of what we know;
Spice (melange) -cinnamon red- found on sand, gives the Guild enough prescience to see whether a particular path leads to destination or death.
Water of Life -unknown color- bile (puke) from a small drown worm, when changed by a RM gives people a little telepathy for a while. (and the whole RM thing)
Spice Essence -blue- spice concentrate? attempted use; harm the God Emperor
Water of Death -xxx- made by pouring unchanged WoL on a pre-spice mass, kills all spice, forever.

BTW, spice is used for everything
plastics
rugs
paper
beer (liquor)
oil (at least for lamps)
flavor (in coffee & on food)
Trippin (narcotic)
delay aging
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
-Omphalos

User avatar
lotek
Posts: 5735
Joined: 28 Jul 2009 08:33

Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...

Postby lotek » 09 Sep 2014 05:36

Spice orgy.
Spice is the worm's gonads.

D Pope
Posts: 1500
Joined: 14 May 2010 14:11
Location: Grubville

Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...

Postby D Pope » 09 Sep 2014 11:20

I thought that was changed WoL?
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
-Omphalos

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18163
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...

Postby Freakzilla » 09 Sep 2014 11:47

D Pope wrote:I thought that was changed WoL?


It is.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18163
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...

Postby Freakzilla » 09 Sep 2014 11:49

D Pope wrote:I'm thinking that it's Franks intention to leave many details vague, open ended, & un-pin-downable.
In a lot of ways it does improve the story, sometimes, looking as closely as we fans do, it does not.

Please add to the list of what we know;
Spice (melange) -cinnamon red- found on sand, gives the Guild enough prescience to see whether a particular path leads to destination or death.
Water of Life -unknown color- bile (puke) from a small drown worm, when changed by a RM gives people a little telepathy for a while. (and the whole RM thing)
Spice Essence -blue- spice concentrate? attempted use; harm the God Emperor
Water of Death -xxx- made by pouring unchanged WoL on a pre-spice mass, kills all spice, forever.

BTW, spice is used for everything
plastics
rugs
paper
beer (liquor)
oil (at least for lamps)
flavor (in coffee & on food)
Trippin (narcotic)
delay aging


Explosives
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

D Pope
Posts: 1500
Joined: 14 May 2010 14:11
Location: Grubville

Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...

Postby D Pope » 09 Sep 2014 13:08

I couldn't remember if that had been actual spice based or just something
that had been smelt (smelled?) upon entering. Thanks mate!
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
-Omphalos

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18163
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...

Postby Freakzilla » 09 Sep 2014 13:36

Paul saw that the man was enjoying the stink of this air, that there was no
irony in his tone. He heard his mother cough then, and her voice came back to
him through the press of the troop: "How rich the odors of your sietch, Stilgar.
I see you do much working with the spice . . . you make paper . . . plastics . .
. and isn't that chemical explosives?"
"You know this from what you smell?" It was another man's voice.


I took that to mean all of those product were made with spice.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
lotek
Posts: 5735
Joined: 28 Jul 2009 08:33

Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...

Postby lotek » 10 Sep 2014 05:19

Explosive beer!
Image
Spice is the worm's gonads.

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18163
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...

Postby Freakzilla » 17 Sep 2014 09:42

D Pope wrote:Please add to the list of what we know;
Spice (melange) -cinnamon red- found on sand, gives the Guild enough prescience to see whether a particular path leads to destination or death.


The worm, tiring now, kept veering left. Leto slid down the immense slope to
set his hooks anew and keep the giant on a straight course. A soft sharpness of
melange came to his nostrils, the signal of a rich vein. They passed the leprous
blotches of violet sand where a spiceblow had erupted
and he held the worm
firmly until they were well past the vein. The breeze, redolent with the gingery
odor of cinnamon, pursued them for a time until Leto rolled the worm onto its
new course, headed directly toward the rising butte.

~Children of Dune
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

Sleels
Posts: 4
Joined: 08 Aug 2014 19:08

Re: The Spice, I'd like to know...

Postby Sleels » 07 Dec 2014 07:56

SandChigger wrote:Good point. So why was it still so expensive then? :think:


I know this question is 4 years old, but I'm re-reading heretics and just encountered the part you're talking about. It looks like the quote isn't referencing the current time period of Heretics, but the "worst of the old times


"The extent of the weath in this chamber had once held staggered imagination. In the worst of the old times, a hand-carried luggage case could hold enough spice to buy a planet"


My apologies if this has been discussed since this post :D


Return to “˱”