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    Who orders Kynes to betray the Atreides

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    Who orders Kynes to betray the Atreides

    Postby Sihaya » 22 May 2011 15:11

    Hey all,

    It seems rather unclear if Kynes was ordered by the Emperor or by the Baron to betray Paul and Leto. Anyone know where that order cam from?
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    Re: Who orders Kynes to betray the Atreides

    Postby Freakzilla » 22 May 2011 16:45

    :?

    He didn't, he helped Paul and Jessica escape.

    Kynes was loyal to the Fremen... or am I forgetting something?
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    Re: Who orders Kynes to betray the Atreides

    Postby Ampoliros » 22 May 2011 22:01

    He was ordered to ignore Harkonnen plots by the Emperor. However, he had gone native and his loyalty was to the Fremen, and then to Paul when he thought he might be the Lisan-al Gaib. He was never ordered to betray the Atreides.
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    Re: Who orders Kynes to betray the Atreides

    Postby trang » 23 May 2011 03:48

    he was captured by the harkonens after the overran arrakeen, questioned then taken out to the desert to die. so if anything he betrayed the emperor and harkonens.
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    Re: Who orders Kynes to betray the Atreides

    Postby Aquila ka-Hecate » 23 May 2011 06:21

    Well, I think I know what Sihaya means.

    There's a bit when Kynes first meets Paul and Leto when reference is made to (the first meeting of)"the people he was ordered to betray".
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    Re: Who orders Kynes to betray the Atreides

    Postby SandChigger » 23 May 2011 08:05

    It would be the Emperor then, since presumably he didn't take orders from the Baron.
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    Re: Who orders Kynes to betray the Atreides

    Postby Freakzilla » 23 May 2011 08:33

    Yeah, Kynes was a "civil servant" and everyone knew he worked for the Emperor but had "gone native". He was the "Judge of the Change" and was supposed to be impartial (between the Harkonnens and Atreides).
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    Re: Who orders Kynes to betray the Atreides

    Postby inhuien » 27 May 2011 04:56

    Aquila ka-Hecate wrote:Well, I think I know what Sihaya means.

    There's a bit when Kynes first meets Paul and Leto when reference is made to (the first meeting of)"the people he was ordered to betray".

    So what betrayal is he thinking of here, cause you can bet Kynes knew nothing about the Sardaukar in Rams clothing that were coming on strong.
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    Re: Who orders Kynes to betray the Atreides

    Postby Freakzilla » 27 May 2011 07:39

    Dr. Yueh? If the Shadout Mapes knew, you can bet Liet-Kynes knew.
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    Re: Who orders Kynes to betray the Atreides

    Postby inhuien » 27 May 2011 18:54

    But did he know with any exactitude, and what's the snap in timeline, and few months before the attack. I think the Freman would have had been more prepared, militarily wise, when they did.
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    Re: Who orders Kynes to betray the Atreides

    Postby Freakzilla » 27 May 2011 19:31

    inhuien wrote:But did he know with any exactitude, and what's the snap in timeline, and few months before the attack. I think the Freman would have had been more prepared, militarily wise, when they did.


    I think the Fremen were always pretty prepared. They stole artillery from Sardaukar! Kynes helped Paul and Jessica escape. Duncan had been there for months, too.
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    Re: Who orders Kynes to betray the Atreides

    Postby inhuien » 27 May 2011 19:41

    Freakzilla wrote:
    inhuien wrote:But did he know with any exactitude, and what's the snap in timeline, and few months before the attack. I think the Freman would have had been more prepared, militarily wise, when they did.


    I think the Fremen were always pretty prepared. They stole artillery from Sardaukar! Kynes helped Paul and Jessica escape. Duncan had been there for months, too.

    Firstly, if the Freman were always prepared, it doesn't mean knew any details. Just means they were always prepared. 2nd, are you referring to the stillsuits and stuff in the thropter, or do I have Lynchbleed, and If Duncan knew anything actionable he'd have told Leto. I move for unrealised prescience on Kynes side.
    Last edited by inhuien on 03 Jun 2011 05:30, edited 1 time in total.
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    Re: Who orders Kynes to betray the Atreides

    Postby Freakzilla » 27 May 2011 20:00

    :lol:
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    Re: Who orders Kynes to betray the Atreides

    Postby SandRider » 28 May 2011 14:48

    more of that discussion from the very begininng, in-line with the Emperor's motives ....

    I believe Kynes knew full well the Emperor planned to allow the Harkonens to attack the
    Atreides and destroy them ... did he know the Baron would do the deed with the Emperor's
    Blade in his hand? would this make much of a difference to Kynes, anyway, who had a much
    different agenda ?

    I believe Kynes saw the Emperor's trap, and shrugged .... it did not matter to him who was
    "grubbing the spice" ... I think his "regret" was only as an honorable man, seeing the value
    and quality of the Atreides, in comparison to the Harkonnens ...

    as Judge of the Change, he was "ordered" to overlook the preliminary War-of-Assassins activity
    on Arrakis, which apparently then should have been some type of violation ...


    (I'm still on the Trail, don't have access to the pdfs; Freak can post the quote I'm thinking
    of, and there may be more right there)
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    Re: Who orders Kynes to betray the Atreides

    Postby Freakzilla » 28 May 2011 14:54

    Halleck stopped in the act of turning away, caught Leto's eye. "Are you
    anticipating that kind of trouble, Sire? I thought there was a Judge of the
    Change here."
    "Both open battle and secret," the Duke said. "There'll be blood aplenty
    spilled here before we're through."
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