Doing research on Dune, need help!

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Moonleaf
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Moonleaf » 22 Sep 2011 13:32

Freakzilla wrote:Do you have a job?

I have a Masters in Economic Science and I am an accountant (in my mother's office). I work 10+ hours on weekdays and 6+ hours on Saturday and Sunday. I aspire to design board games in my free time and perhaps one day have them published. Still, I am generally far better than most people around, unemployment approaches 25% in my city

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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Freakzilla » 22 Sep 2011 13:40

SandChigger wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Do you have a job?

You watched Colbert last night, too, huh? :lol:


Yeah. I'm just messing with you Moonleaf. :P
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Moonleaf
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Moonleaf » 22 Sep 2011 13:42

Freakzilla wrote:Yeah. I'm just messing with you moonleaf. :P

Damn, just when I thought someone was interested to hear my life's story. I had a few hundred pages somewhere around here ready to be quoted...

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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Freakzilla » 22 Sep 2011 13:43

Moonleaf wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Yeah. I'm just messing with you moonleaf. :P

Damn, just when I thought someone was interested to hear my life's story. I had a few hundred pages somewhere around here ready to be quoted...



You can write anything you want about yourself in the "Introduce Yourself" forum.
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Moonleaf
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Moonleaf » 22 Sep 2011 13:45

It's not fun unless someone asks for it :P

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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Moonleaf » 22 Sep 2011 13:49

So, what did this comedian say about Greece? What is the USA media take on Greece's situation? I hope it's not the typical propaganda 'Greeks are lazy and don't work'

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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Moonleaf » 22 Sep 2011 13:51

Oh, by the way, in order to help you give me the 10 locations I asked for, check the board from the 1979 board game:

http://webspace.webring.com/people/fa/a ... eBoard.jpg

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Freakzilla
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Freakzilla » 22 Sep 2011 13:53

Pretty much. And that WWIII is the solution to Americas problems.
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Moonleaf
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Moonleaf » 22 Sep 2011 13:58

There are lazy people. Most of them are civil workers and still have a job because they were originally placed in that job only because of their voting preferences. But I suppose this is not the right place to discuss politics, there is a specific forum category

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A Thing of Eternity
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby A Thing of Eternity » 22 Sep 2011 14:08

I didn't in all honesty read most of the last 2 pages - I just wanted to say that suggesting a person read at least the first book is hardly elitist, it's a suggestion that will make a far better game. Dune has a lot of interesting details that could be mixed into the game, and the movie misses most of those (and makes major changes to others).

For example, if you didn't read the book, and just went by the movie, you might have all the weapons described as guns - but in the book combat is done almost entirely with knives because of personal sheilds... does it make any difference to the game mechanic? No, but getting details like that right show that the creator cares about the subject matter. It's one single short book (less than 300 pages I think), it could be read in a week or two easily. Nothing elitist about that. :?
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Freakzilla » 22 Sep 2011 14:09

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I didn't in all honesty read most of the last 2 pages - I just wanted to say that suggesting a person read at least the first book is hardly elitist, it's a suggestion that will make a far better game.


It'll change your life, too.
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Moonleaf » 22 Sep 2011 14:20

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I didn't in all honesty read most of the last 2 pages - I just wanted to say that suggesting a person read at least the first book is hardly elitist, it's a suggestion that will make a far better game. Dune has a lot of interesting details that could be mixed into the game, and the movie misses most of those (and makes major changes to others).

For example, if you didn't read the book, and just went by the movie, you might have all the weapons described as guns - but in the book combat is done almost entirely with knives because of personal sheilds... does it make any difference to the game mechanic? No, but getting details like that right show that the creator cares about the subject matter. It's one single short book (less than 300 pages I think), it could be read in a week or two easily. Nothing elitist about that. :?

Oh, don't worry, I know that reading the books is the best course of action. Second best is at least reading the first. Still, as mentioned earlier, I'd need a double-check with people who've read prequels and sequels in order to flesh out the game better, so I'd still be here asking questions. For example, I got the impression that the Spacing Guild doesn't make a big appearance in the first book. This means that I have to ask for more details (as I already have).

I'm torn, though, between reading the Greek version or the English one. The Greek is easily borrowed from friends, but I don't know how good the translation is. I'm also torn between starting Dune or A Dance with Dragons (just finished Discworld's Men at Arms)

Even so, if you could check the questions from this post I'd be grateful
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2962&start=30#p112417

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DuneFishUK
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby DuneFishUK » 22 Sep 2011 14:53

Read the first half of the first book. That contains most of what you need to ground you in the Dune Universe - more is better (and if you're like me, you'll struggle to stop :P), but just those 300 pages will do if you're in a rush.

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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Streaksy » 22 Sep 2011 15:52

A Thing Of Eternity: You weren't being elitist. Forgive me for not rechecking but I think you were the only one that even attempted to help. Everyone else (I think) was just dismissive. Like I said, there's no harm in helping someone with a fun project who doesn't want to devote a lot of his time to researching. That's all I'm saying. Saying "read the book" is reasonable but resenting being asked and giving no infomation isn't as reasonable.

Attriedes:
Bravado
Known to "rule with the consent of the ruled"
Hatred for intrigue
Popular
Rewards loyalty
Royal cousin
Bene Gesserit insight
Exceptional army
Respect of the Fremen (vital in the story)

Harkonnen:
Brutal
Fiendish
Indulgeant
"Spend as little as possible maintaining a populace"
Massive stockpiles of spice
Secretly helped by Emperor and his dreaded army
(They don't end human life for the sake of it but have no tollerance of failure)

Fremen:
Desert survival
Sandworm near-immunity
Organised in MASSIVE cominutes. :P Around ten thousand per sietch (cave complex)
Water discipline
The best fighters, vital and fast
Willing to instantly self-sacrifice for the good of the tribe
Master craftsmen
Special training by Paul Muad'Dib Attriedes
Secretly changing the planet to a green paradise
Fiercely loyal to Liet Kynes, planetologist who's guiding them with the ecology
Spice access

Spacing Guild:
Secretive
Outside Imperial control
Complacent and rely completely on prescience instead of political sense
Like nothing else in Dune like them. They're a politically neutral service everyone depends on. Even the Emperor
Rely heavily on Spice. No spice, no space travel for anyone
The steersmen are mutated by the spice chambers they live in, and even the guild agents don't generally see them
Leto said to Paul: "The guild heighliners (motherships that can "fold space"/teleport) are so big that our entire fleet will be tucked in to a corner. We could be alongside Harkonnen ships and have nothing to fear. They wouldn't risk their shipping privelleges."

BTW the currency in Dune is Solaris. Spice is just an important commodity.

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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Freakzilla » 22 Sep 2011 15:54

Whatever :roll:
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Streaksy
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Streaksy » 22 Sep 2011 16:10

The Attriedes and Harkonnens are houses of the Landstraad, a group of planet governing families that kinda share the wealth via a group called CHAOM.
The Emperor is sort of like a great house with most of the political power.
The Guild are just everyone's transport service. Nobody messes with them and they don't mess with anyone. It's a delicate balance.

The Laandstrad, Emperor, and Guild are the three power bases. If one steps out of line, the others react. That's the political balance.

The Fremen are hardenned tribes that the Attriedes hoped to enlist.


I'll give you a quick rundown of the whole Dune story. It'll make more sense to you.

The Harkonnens were in charge of spice production on Dune and the Attriedes were popular and growing powerful. They hate eachother because an Attriedes banished a Harkonnen in an old great war, and the Attriedes is a royal-blood Duke while the Harkonnen is just a Baron (an awarded title). The Emperor uses their fued to get rid of the Attriedies by making a deal with the Harkonnens. He orders the Attriedes to take over spice production on Dune and leave them just a little damaged equipment so spice production falls and the Attriedes lose popularity. Warfare is illegal but there's special legal exceptions for family fueds. The rest of their plan is that the Harkonnens attack the Attriedes on Dune by blackmailing an important Attriedes attendant. They wanted the Attreides wiped out. The Emperor's elite solders were gonna help, in disguise as Harkonnen soldiers.

The Attriedes knew it was coming, but they also knew that the Fremen of Dune HATE the Harkonnens because of their brutal tyranny. They hunted the Fremen for sport. The Attriedes also knew there was a lot more Fremen than anyone knows about. So all the Attriedes plans hinged on getting the Fremen to join them. Then they'd be able to capture Emperor's soldiers and everyone would turn on the Emperor and the Attriedes would be more powerful than ever.

Anyway, the Harkonnen plan works, except Paul and his mother escape to the Fremen who have a prophecy about them, which is a long story itself. The spice combines with his special training and breeding and he gets special powers. Eventually Paul (Fremen name Muad'Dib) pretty much becomes their leader pretty much. When he drinks the Water of Life to increase his powers, he sees that the Emperor and Landstraad are in orbit and the Emperor is on the planet talking to the Harkonnen Baron. Paul mounts a massive attack and captures the Emperor and his sister (who also has powers, but different) kills the Harkonnen Baron.

Paul Attriedes knows how to destroy spice production forever and threatens the guild, forces them to back off, so the Emperor and other great houses are screwed. He becomes Emperor. That's basically it. For the first book, anyway.

So... you can see all the factions aren't really equals. That's why I said it might be a better idea just to have Landstraad houses competing, instead of having the Guild and Fremen as peers. They should be an asset you can win, I think. Up to you though. Your way will probably work. Doesn't have to be totally accurate.

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Freakzilla
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Freakzilla » 22 Sep 2011 16:22

Streaksy wrote:The Attriedes and Harkonnens are houses of the Landstraad, a group of planet governing families that kinda share the wealth via a group called CHAOM.


(Atreides, Landsraad)

The Emperor is sort of like a great house with most of the political power.

He has a majority of shares in CHOAM.

The Guild are just everyone's transport service. Nobody messes with them and they don't mess with anyone. It's a delicate balance.


They also provide banking and communication.

Warfare is illegal but there's special legal exceptions for family fueds.


Warefare isn't illegal, it just has very rigid forms that have to be obeyed. The purpose being to avoid killing innocent bystanders.

Paul Attriedes knows how to destroy spice production forever and threatens the guild, forces them to back off, so the Emperor and other great houses are screwed. He becomes Emperor. That's basically it. For the first book, anyway.


The Water of Death
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Streaksy » 22 Sep 2011 16:34

The Great Convention (those warefare rules) isn't to protect innocents, is it? I thought it was just some rules to stop things getting out of hand. It's not for justice, it's for stability. :P (Yep about warfare being legal but coded. My mistake)

And yeh, the rest of that stuff. A summary for a nuneDunehead doesn't need to be in its complex glory. I always say Landstraad. Dunno why. Sounds right to me. Like it's Germanic. Theres probably other mistakes like that I keep making.

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Freakzilla
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Freakzilla » 22 Sep 2011 17:27

KANLY: formal feud or vendetta under the rules of the Great Convention carried
on according to the strictest limitations. (See Judge of the Change.) Originally
the rules were designed to protect innocent bystanders.

~Dune, Terminology of the Imperium
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Streaksy » 22 Sep 2011 17:49

Yeh, "originally". :P And probably only officially. We know why people don't break the rules. It'll ruin them. That's the real reason it's observed. ;/

Added: But I suppose you could say the only reason people don't murder is to not go to jail, but the rules are still to protect innocents...

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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Nekhrun » 22 Sep 2011 17:50

Between the first post of this thread and now you could've read the book.
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby JustSomeGuy » 22 Sep 2011 18:41

Moonleaf wrote:Atreides
Bravery
Honor
Valuing human life
Protection
Organization
Noble Blood
Loyalty

Harkonen:
Revenge
Wealth
Ending of human life
Physical perfection
Unholy alliances

Fremen
Arrakis lore
Faith in the Messiah
Organization in small communities and groups
Recycling
Survival with few

Spacing Guild
Financial control
Money create money
Blackmailing (mostly economic)
Deleted: Military elite



Physical perfection for the Harkonnens?
Also, luck played a big role for the Atreides. Once Paul and his mother were out on their asses, A LOT of things had to fall into place before they could make it back up to the top. Even before then.
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Moonleaf » 23 Sep 2011 02:55

Thank you! :D I was populating the list with assumptions based on my limited knowledge. All corrections are very helpful!

I considered using Solaris but decided with the 'KISS' rule in mind. 'Keep It Simple, Stupid'. The game will have only one currency which serves as victory point count as well. Besides, having Spice and having Solaris both allow you to buy stuff, thus it's interchangeable.

The extra information will allow me to print a prototype to start playtesting this weekend :)

Any of you interested in playtesting?

I will probably read Dune next week. Maybe that way I'll be better accepted here

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Nekhrun
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby Nekhrun » 23 Sep 2011 08:15

Moonleaf wrote:I will probably read Dune next week. Maybe that way I'll be better accepted here

That's one way to do it.
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Re: Doing research on Dune, need help!

Postby merkin muffley » 24 Sep 2011 15:28

Nekhrun wrote:
Moonleaf wrote:I will probably read Dune next week. Maybe that way I'll be better accepted here

That's one way to do it.


Yeah, I mean, would it be that difficult? Why bother doing this if you've never read the book? And it's a good book, by the way, there's lots of fights and explosions and stuff...
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