Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

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muddism
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Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

Postby muddism » 26 Oct 2011 05:49

In GEoD Duncan says he knew Leto II as a small child when Siona asked what he remembered about him. How is this possible when the original Duncan died before Paul even met Chani?
Religion (emulation of adults by children) encysts past mythologies: guesses, hidden assumptions of trust in the universe, pronouncements made in search of personal power, all mingled with shreds of enlightenment. And always an unspoken commandment: Thou shall not question! We break that commandment daily in the harnessing of human imagination to our deepest creativity.

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Re: Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

Postby Serkanner » 26 Oct 2011 05:59

By searching this forum about this topic.
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Re: Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

Postby Freakzilla » 26 Oct 2011 09:18

It's generally believed to be a mistake on FH's part.
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Re: Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

Postby D Pope » 26 Oct 2011 11:11

Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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muddism
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Re: Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

Postby muddism » 26 Oct 2011 14:08

Sorry, I didn't see the other thread. Remove it if you like.
Religion (emulation of adults by children) encysts past mythologies: guesses, hidden assumptions of trust in the universe, pronouncements made in search of personal power, all mingled with shreds of enlightenment. And always an unspoken commandment: Thou shall not question! We break that commandment daily in the harnessing of human imagination to our deepest creativity.

War is behavior with roots in the single cell of the primeval seas. Eat whatever you touch or it will eat you.

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Re: Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

Postby D Pope » 26 Oct 2011 15:39

Congratz on discovering the anomoly!
Any thoughts?


I don't think the thread should be deleted.
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
-Omphalos

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Re: Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

Postby Freakzilla » 26 Oct 2011 16:36

D Pope wrote:I don't think the thread should be deleted.


No, the Reading Group wasn't meant to discuss such things, it's better to have it in General.
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Spicelon
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Re: Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

Postby Spicelon » 26 Oct 2011 16:52

"In GEoD Duncan says he knew Leto II as a small child..."

This could be read two different ways. Read it one way and it makes sense. The other way, not so much. At least that's my take. :p
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Re: Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

Postby D Pope » 27 Oct 2011 01:38

Freakzilla wrote:
D Pope wrote:I don't think the thread should be deleted.


No, the Reading Group wasn't meant to discuss such things, it's better to have it in General.
completely agree

Spicelon wrote:This could be read two different ways. Read it one way and it makes sense. The other way, not so much. At least that's my take.
How do you figure?
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
-Omphalos

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lotek
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Re: Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

Postby lotek » 27 Oct 2011 07:24

If I may :)

When Leto II is born and Chani dies is the time Hayt awakens.
So technically it is Duncan that looks over the twins, no ?

So the GEoD Duncan can say he knew Leto II as a child(but not that he remembers him)
Spice is the worm's gonads.

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Re: Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

Postby Freakzilla » 27 Oct 2011 08:28

lotek wrote:If I may :)

When Leto II is born and Chani dies is the time Hayt awakens.
So technically it is Duncan that looks over the twins, no ?

So the GEoD Duncan can say he knew Leto II as a child(but not that he remembers him)


Yes, but the Duncan in GEoD should only have memories of his original life. Remembering Hayt would be serial memories, which he doesn't get until HoD.
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lotek
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Re: Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

Postby lotek » 27 Oct 2011 08:46

yes which is why I said
lotek wrote:So the GEoD Duncan can say he knew Leto II as a child(but not that he remembers him)


It's splitting hairs but it kinda works.
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Re: Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

Postby SandRider » 27 Oct 2011 11:16

I am Duncan Idaho, swordmaster of the Atreides. He clung to this memory as
he stood in the yellow room.

I died defending Paul and his mother in a cave-sietch beneath the sands of Dune.
I have been returned to that planet, but Dune is no more. Now it is only Arrakis.


He had read the truncated history which the Tleilaxu provided, but he did not
believe it. More than thirty-five hundred years? Who could believe his flesh
existed after such a time? Except . . . with Tleilaxu it was possible. He had
believe his own senses.

"There have been many of you," his instructors had said.
"How many?"
"The Lord Leto will provide that information."
The Lord Leto?

The Tleilaxu history said this Lord Leto was Leto II, grandson of the Leto who
Idaho had served with fanatical devotion. But this second Leto (so the history
said) had become something . . . something so strange that Idaho despaired of
understanding the transformation.

How could a human slowly turn into a sandworm? How could any thinking creature
live more than three thousand years? Not even the wildest projections of geriatric
spice allowed such a lifespan.

Leto II, the God Emperor?
The Tleilaxu history was not to be believed!



Idaho remembered a strange child - twins, really: Leto and Ghanima, Paul's
children, the children of Chani, who had died delivering them. The Tleilaxu
history said Ghanima had died after a relatively normal life, but the God
Emperor Leto lived on and on and on ....



"Were the GE's Duncans Clones of Hayt or the Original? (poll)" :
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2350

"Hayt" :
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1534
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lotek
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Re: Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

Postby lotek » 27 Oct 2011 12:35

thanks :)
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muddism
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Re: Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

Postby muddism » 27 Oct 2011 18:49

Thanks for the links. A lot of people seem to think it was a Hayt ghola but I lean towards the original. In GEoD he talks about remembering his death to Sardaukar in Harkonen livery...the Hayt ghola died by Stillgar's crysknife, but he never mentions that, or any other Hayt memory. Another reason I don't think it was Hayt is his response to Siona, that "he was just a small boy". Leto II was eight or older when Hayt was killed, and even though there is no dialog between them in CoD, you'd think he would get to know him somewhat in those eight years. Leto II and Ghanima were the most complex pair in the universe, even at the age of eight, and I don't think that would escape the observations of a mentat. So I think he was the original Duncan and it was just a mistake. I mean, one mistake (that I've noticed) in this large and incredible body of work isn't bad!
Religion (emulation of adults by children) encysts past mythologies: guesses, hidden assumptions of trust in the universe, pronouncements made in search of personal power, all mingled with shreds of enlightenment. And always an unspoken commandment: Thou shall not question! We break that commandment daily in the harnessing of human imagination to our deepest creativity.

War is behavior with roots in the single cell of the primeval seas. Eat whatever you touch or it will eat you.

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Serkanner
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Re: Duncan knew Leto II as a child?

Postby Serkanner » 27 Oct 2011 18:52

There are a few more mistakes ( one-armed Otheym f.i. ) but none bad enough to get you into the type of blinding rage that the Hack Twins managed to accomplish.
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."