Blind Paul's Visions

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Demerzel
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Blind Paul's Visions

Postby Demerzel » 31 Oct 2011 06:09

I'm curious to know that when blind Paul used his prescience as a way to guide himself, could he notice people who were protected by other oracles?
When Paul was three I found him wearing lingerie I was planning to wear for my Duke. I asked him: "How can this be?" and he answered: "For I am the Kwisatz Haderach!" I was proud since these were the first words Paul ever spoke, but now I knew for certain that my Paul was a special boy. I brought him to Duncan's room while he was busy "training" a young maidservant in the Art of Sword-Handling. My Paul shall be the best! - Tleszer

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Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Postby Freakzilla » 31 Oct 2011 08:56

No, but he might notice they're NOT there.
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Postby SandRider » 31 Oct 2011 11:35

that's wrong, but I'm too high right now to explain why ...

gimme a few hours ....
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Postby Freakzilla » 31 Oct 2011 12:04

Paul consulted his memory of the vision: in it, he'd left here with the
names of the traitors, but never seeing how those names were carried. The dwarf
obviously moved under the protection of another oracle.

~DM

Paul knew Bijaz was hidden by an oracle because he was missing from his vision.

Alia saw her future mate but couldn't identify them.
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Postby SandRider » 31 Oct 2011 18:16

Paul consulted his memory of the vision: in it, he'd left here with the
names of the traitors, but never seeing how those names were carried. The dwarf
obviously moved under the protection of another oracle.

this was before the stone-burner ....

when he became blind, and "locked-in" his Vision,
he must have been able to see thru the cloudings
of the the other oracle(s) ....
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
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I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
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Serkanner
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Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Postby Serkanner » 01 Nov 2011 06:32

SandRider wrote:
Paul consulted his memory of the vision: in it, he'd left here with the
names of the traitors, but never seeing how those names were carried. The dwarf
obviously moved under the protection of another oracle.

this was before the stone-burner ....

when he became blind, and "locked-in" his Vision,
he must have been able to see thru the cloudings
of the the other oracle(s) ....


Why "must have"?
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

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and wrote a Dune Novel."

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Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Postby Freakzilla » 01 Nov 2011 10:13

You've got me curious, too.

It became increasingly difficult for Paul to see the future throughout DM because of too many oracles. By the time he went to Othyem's house he was relying on the memory of a vision:

Paul consulted his memory of the vision: in it, he'd left here with the
names of the traitors, but never seeing how those names were carried.

...

Paul examined his vision memory: no dwarf, but the little man's words fitted
the occasion.

...

As he spoke, Paul felt closer to the sound of his voice than to the
mechanism which had created the sound. Two babies! The vision had contained but
one. Yet, these moments went as the vision went. There was a person here who
felt grief and anger. Someone. His own awareness lay in the grip of an awful
treadmill, replaying his life from memory.

~DM
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

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Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Postby D Pope » 01 Nov 2011 11:07

I thought that when Paul 'locked in' his vision, it precluded the changes of other oracles & the tarot.
A simplistic veiw perhaps but with his strength and conviction, i'd imagined he overpowered others ability to 'muddy the waters.'
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
-Omphalos

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Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Postby Freakzilla » 01 Nov 2011 11:27

D Pope wrote:I thought that when Paul 'locked in' his vision, it precluded the changes of other oracles & the tarot.
A simplistic veiw perhaps but with his strength and conviction, i'd imagined he overpowered others ability to 'muddy the waters.'


He couldn't see the people, their actions are another matter. See the quote I posted above. He knew he got the list of names, he just didn't see Bijaz.

And who cares if it was before the stoneburner or not? There is no cause and effect in infinity.
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Postby SandRider » 01 Nov 2011 13:33

so if, after the stone-burner, the dwarf tried to sneak up on Paul,
crouched down in front of him to trip him 3-Stooges Style,
Paul would have known someone was in front of him,
but not that it was Bijaz, specifically ?

what if, in Paul's locked-in-Vision, Stilgar called out
"Look out, Usul! Bijaz is right in front of you !" ...?
does Paul then recognize Bijaz ?

I think that's the gist of the OP - does the locked-in Vision
after the stone-burner clear out the other oracles for Paul ...
................ I exist only to amuse myself ................
ImageImage

I personally feel that this message board, Jacurutu, is full of hateful folks who don't know
how to fully interact with people.
~ "Spice Grandson" (Bryon Merrit) 08 June 2008

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Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Postby Freakzilla » 01 Nov 2011 13:45

SandRider wrote:so if, after the stone-burner, the dwarf tried to sneak up on Paul,
crouched down in front of him to trip him 3-Stooges Style,
Paul would have known someone was in front of him,
but not that it was Bijaz, specifically ?


He wouldn't see Bijaz, just that he tripped.

SandRider wrote:what if, in Paul's locked-in-Vision, Stilgar called out
"Look out, Usul! Bijaz is right in front of you !" ...?
does Paul then recognize Bijaz ?


Same answer, except he doesn't trip.

I think that's the gist of the OP - does the locked-in Vision
after the stone-burner clear out the other oracles for Paul ...


I can't imagine why it would. How does the stoneburner illuminate other oracles?

:?
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

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Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Postby Hunchback Jack » 01 Nov 2011 20:07

Yeah, I always thought of it in the same way as Freak. Either before or after the stone-burner, Paul's prescience can't see events or people hidden by the oracles, but may later see their effects. After the stone burner, Paul is forced to rely on his memory of his visions, but the blindness of prescient sight is the same.

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Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Postby Freakzilla » 01 Nov 2011 20:16

Think of how Leto II could see Siona's tracks in the sand but couldn't see her.
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

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Demerzel
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Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Postby Demerzel » 03 Nov 2011 05:38

Freakzilla wrote:Think of how Leto II could see Siona's tracks in the sand but couldn't see her.


I don't recall this. Could you post the actual text? I don't have GEoD with me.
When Paul was three I found him wearing lingerie I was planning to wear for my Duke. I asked him: "How can this be?" and he answered: "For I am the Kwisatz Haderach!" I was proud since these were the first words Paul ever spoke, but now I knew for certain that my Paul was a special boy. I brought him to Duncan's room while he was busy "training" a young maidservant in the Art of Sword-Handling. My Paul shall be the best! - Tleszer

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Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Postby Freakzilla » 03 Nov 2011 07:51

Demerzel wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Think of how Leto II could see Siona's tracks in the sand but couldn't see her.


I don't recall this. Could you post the actual text? I don't have GEoD with me.



Wow, OK...

He saw her accept her own nakedness the way Moneo had accepted it, with fear and
hate. It was of little matter. He probed the time ahead of them. Yes, she would
survive his desert because her tracks were in the sand beside him . . . but he
saw no sign of her flesh in those tracks.
Just beyond her tracks, though, he saw
a sudden opening where things had been concealed. Anteac's death-shout echoed
through his prescient awareness . . . and the swarming of Fish Speakers
attacking!

~GEoD
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

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Demerzel
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Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Postby Demerzel » 03 Nov 2011 09:26

Oh alright, thanks. So I agree with you then, this probably was the case in DM as well.
When Paul was three I found him wearing lingerie I was planning to wear for my Duke. I asked him: "How can this be?" and he answered: "For I am the Kwisatz Haderach!" I was proud since these were the first words Paul ever spoke, but now I knew for certain that my Paul was a special boy. I brought him to Duncan's room while he was busy "training" a young maidservant in the Art of Sword-Handling. My Paul shall be the best! - Tleszer

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Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Postby georgiedenbro » 10 Sep 2014 16:15

Freakzilla wrote:
D Pope wrote:I thought that when Paul 'locked in' his vision, it precluded the changes of other oracles & the tarot.
A simplistic veiw perhaps but with his strength and conviction, i'd imagined he overpowered others ability to 'muddy the waters.'


He couldn't see the people, their actions are another matter. See the quote I posted above. He knew he got the list of names, he just didn't see Bijaz.

And who cares if it was before the stoneburner or not? There is no cause and effect in infinity.


I'm 100% with Freak on this one. The only thing that could seriously disrupt Paul's predictions would be the birth of a great oracle or game-changer who would do something unexpected, somewhat like what we see in the Foundation series with The Mule. Leto II happened to be exactly this, and Paul didn't see him or his plans coming.
"um-m-m-ah-h-h-hm-m-m-m!"


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