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Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 31 Oct 2011 06:09
by Demerzel
I'm curious to know that when blind Paul used his prescience as a way to guide himself, could he notice people who were protected by other oracles?

Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 31 Oct 2011 08:56
by Freakzilla
No, but he might notice they're NOT there.

Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 31 Oct 2011 11:35
by SandRider
that's wrong, but I'm too high right now to explain why ...

gimme a few hours ....

Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 31 Oct 2011 12:04
by Freakzilla
Paul consulted his memory of the vision: in it, he'd left here with the
names of the traitors, but never seeing how those names were carried. The dwarf
obviously moved under the protection of another oracle.

~DM

Paul knew Bijaz was hidden by an oracle because he was missing from his vision.

Alia saw her future mate but couldn't identify them.

Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 31 Oct 2011 18:16
by SandRider
Paul consulted his memory of the vision: in it, he'd left here with the
names of the traitors, but never seeing how those names were carried. The dwarf
obviously moved under the protection of another oracle.

this was before the stone-burner ....

when he became blind, and "locked-in" his Vision,
he must have been able to see thru the cloudings
of the the other oracle(s) ....

Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 01 Nov 2011 06:32
by Serkanner
SandRider wrote:
Paul consulted his memory of the vision: in it, he'd left here with the
names of the traitors, but never seeing how those names were carried. The dwarf
obviously moved under the protection of another oracle.

this was before the stone-burner ....

when he became blind, and "locked-in" his Vision,
he must have been able to see thru the cloudings
of the the other oracle(s) ....


Why "must have"?

Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 01 Nov 2011 10:13
by Freakzilla
You've got me curious, too.

It became increasingly difficult for Paul to see the future throughout DM because of too many oracles. By the time he went to Othyem's house he was relying on the memory of a vision:

Paul consulted his memory of the vision: in it, he'd left here with the
names of the traitors, but never seeing how those names were carried.

...

Paul examined his vision memory: no dwarf, but the little man's words fitted
the occasion.

...

As he spoke, Paul felt closer to the sound of his voice than to the
mechanism which had created the sound. Two babies! The vision had contained but
one. Yet, these moments went as the vision went. There was a person here who
felt grief and anger. Someone. His own awareness lay in the grip of an awful
treadmill, replaying his life from memory.

~DM

Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 01 Nov 2011 11:07
by D Pope
I thought that when Paul 'locked in' his vision, it precluded the changes of other oracles & the tarot.
A simplistic veiw perhaps but with his strength and conviction, i'd imagined he overpowered others ability to 'muddy the waters.'

Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 01 Nov 2011 11:27
by Freakzilla
D Pope wrote:I thought that when Paul 'locked in' his vision, it precluded the changes of other oracles & the tarot.
A simplistic veiw perhaps but with his strength and conviction, i'd imagined he overpowered others ability to 'muddy the waters.'


He couldn't see the people, their actions are another matter. See the quote I posted above. He knew he got the list of names, he just didn't see Bijaz.

And who cares if it was before the stoneburner or not? There is no cause and effect in infinity.

Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 01 Nov 2011 13:33
by SandRider
so if, after the stone-burner, the dwarf tried to sneak up on Paul,
crouched down in front of him to trip him 3-Stooges Style,
Paul would have known someone was in front of him,
but not that it was Bijaz, specifically ?

what if, in Paul's locked-in-Vision, Stilgar called out
"Look out, Usul! Bijaz is right in front of you !" ...?
does Paul then recognize Bijaz ?

I think that's the gist of the OP - does the locked-in Vision
after the stone-burner clear out the other oracles for Paul ...

Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 01 Nov 2011 13:45
by Freakzilla
SandRider wrote:so if, after the stone-burner, the dwarf tried to sneak up on Paul,
crouched down in front of him to trip him 3-Stooges Style,
Paul would have known someone was in front of him,
but not that it was Bijaz, specifically ?


He wouldn't see Bijaz, just that he tripped.

SandRider wrote:what if, in Paul's locked-in-Vision, Stilgar called out
"Look out, Usul! Bijaz is right in front of you !" ...?
does Paul then recognize Bijaz ?


Same answer, except he doesn't trip.

I think that's the gist of the OP - does the locked-in Vision
after the stone-burner clear out the other oracles for Paul ...


I can't imagine why it would. How does the stoneburner illuminate other oracles?

:?

Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 01 Nov 2011 20:07
by Hunchback Jack
Yeah, I always thought of it in the same way as Freak. Either before or after the stone-burner, Paul's prescience can't see events or people hidden by the oracles, but may later see their effects. After the stone burner, Paul is forced to rely on his memory of his visions, but the blindness of prescient sight is the same.

HBJ

Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 01 Nov 2011 20:16
by Freakzilla
Think of how Leto II could see Siona's tracks in the sand but couldn't see her.

Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 03 Nov 2011 05:38
by Demerzel
Freakzilla wrote:Think of how Leto II could see Siona's tracks in the sand but couldn't see her.


I don't recall this. Could you post the actual text? I don't have GEoD with me.

Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 03 Nov 2011 07:51
by Freakzilla
Demerzel wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Think of how Leto II could see Siona's tracks in the sand but couldn't see her.


I don't recall this. Could you post the actual text? I don't have GEoD with me.



Wow, OK...

He saw her accept her own nakedness the way Moneo had accepted it, with fear and
hate. It was of little matter. He probed the time ahead of them. Yes, she would
survive his desert because her tracks were in the sand beside him . . . but he
saw no sign of her flesh in those tracks.
Just beyond her tracks, though, he saw
a sudden opening where things had been concealed. Anteac's death-shout echoed
through his prescient awareness . . . and the swarming of Fish Speakers
attacking!

~GEoD

Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 03 Nov 2011 09:26
by Demerzel
Oh alright, thanks. So I agree with you then, this probably was the case in DM as well.

Re: Blind Paul's Visions

Posted: 10 Sep 2014 16:15
by georgiedenbro
Freakzilla wrote:
D Pope wrote:I thought that when Paul 'locked in' his vision, it precluded the changes of other oracles & the tarot.
A simplistic veiw perhaps but with his strength and conviction, i'd imagined he overpowered others ability to 'muddy the waters.'


He couldn't see the people, their actions are another matter. See the quote I posted above. He knew he got the list of names, he just didn't see Bijaz.

And who cares if it was before the stoneburner or not? There is no cause and effect in infinity.


I'm 100% with Freak on this one. The only thing that could seriously disrupt Paul's predictions would be the birth of a great oracle or game-changer who would do something unexpected, somewhat like what we see in the Foundation series with The Mule. Leto II happened to be exactly this, and Paul didn't see him or his plans coming.