Etymology of Dune names

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Kwisatz
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Etymology of Dune names

Postby Kwisatz » 09 Jul 2013 08:18

My friend is doing research about etymology of characters' names in the first Dune.

Does anyone knows good sites about etymology or if some articles about Dune names exist already?
She will present her article on the linguistic conference.

Every help is much appreciated ;)

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inhuien
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Re: Etymology of Dune names

Postby inhuien » 09 Jul 2013 11:42

I'm sure Chiggy was interested in this topic as well, have you looked to his blog or T(A)U?
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Re: Etymology of Dune names

Postby Kwisatz » 10 Jul 2013 10:33

Nothing relevant found on both of those unfortunately so far...

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Re: Etymology of Dune names

Postby Omphalos » 10 Jul 2013 13:39

There are several linguistics websites out there that may touch on this, but I believe that a focus on the etymology of the character's and place names would be new. Take a look at the papers in this website:

http://tau.solahpmo.com/viewtopic.php?f=869&t=4

and here:

http://www.hairyticksofdune.net/

Sounds like you've been to both places already, but the papers on the secondary sources link may steer you in the right direction, and I believe that Chig has corresponded with linguists who have an interest in Dune (including a few survivors from the DE) and that records of those communications may be posted somewhere on his blog.

You may want to send your friend to Atilla Torkos too. I believe he has one or two students whom he helps regularly with Dune things. Ive spoken to him a few times over the years and he seems like he knows his stuff. He would probably be a good resource. You can find his email address out there on the web.

Phil Stevenson-Payne too. He's a bibliographer, but I beleive he also has an interest in linguistics. Jospeh probably knows that better than me, so maybe he'll chime in. Phil SP is at the Galactic Central website.

Send your friend our way, too.

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Kwisatz
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Re: Etymology of Dune names

Postby Kwisatz » 13 Jul 2013 07:59

Thank you for this list of links, people and directions.
I spoke with Phil Payne few times, when I was correcting and making additions to his bibliography ;)
Dr Atilla Torkos - I didn't think of him in this perspective, so thanks for this direction too. He could be helpful, when every other source will dry...

Btw there were over 70 unique people mentioned in Dune itself, so it's not a small task ;)

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Re: Etymology of Dune names

Postby Omphalos » 14 Jul 2013 00:10

Kwisatz wrote:Thank you for this list of links, people and directions.
I spoke with Phil Payne few times, when I was correcting and making additions to his bibliography ;)
Dr Atilla Torkos - I didn't think of him in this perspective, so thanks for this direction too. He could be helpful, when every other source will dry...

Btw there were over 70 unique people mentioned in Dune itself, so it's not a small task ;)


I'm sure the double secret probation area will reveal some nuggets too. :whistle:

I'd like to see Phil SP and Drumm's most recent bibliography. The last one I saw was helpful, but missing a bunch of cites and editions.

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Re: Etymology of Dune names

Postby Kwisatz » 14 Jul 2013 02:13

Meanwhile I'm compiling a list of newspapers articles by FH based on 3 sources so far. It's far from complete, but I'd like to share it with OH community.

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Re: Etymology of Dune names

Postby inhuien » 14 Jul 2013 03:07

Kwisatz wrote:Meanwhile I'm compiling a list of newspapers articles by FH based on 3 sources so far. It's far from complete, but I'd like to share it with OH community.


Cool. I anticipate the gems.
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Re: Etymology of Dune names

Postby Omphalos » 14 Jul 2013 03:19

inhuien wrote:
Kwisatz wrote:Meanwhile I'm compiling a list of newspapers articles by FH based on 3 sources so far. It's far from complete, but I'd like to share it with OH community.


Cool. I anticipate the gems.


Me 2.

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Re: Etymology of Dune names

Postby Kwisatz » 14 Jul 2013 03:59

It's only the list...but I'll have in few months 29 full articles from California Living, already bought them ;)

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Re: Etymology of Dune names

Postby Kwisatz » 14 Jul 2013 19:03

Here's the section in Polish sci-fi encyclopedia regarding those articles in abbreviated form (without exact dates and titles of newspapers):
http://www.encyklopediafantastyki.pl/in ... 2y_prasowe

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Re: Etymology of Dune names

Postby ᴶᵛᵀᴬ » 18 Jul 2013 14:04

Kwisatz wrote:My friend is doing research about etymology of characters' names in the first Dune.


  • HERBERT (Frank). "Terminology of the Imperium", pp. i-xxvi in : Dune. Philadelphia : Chilton, 1965, xxvi-412 p.

      :arrow: Ghanima Ibn Qirtaiba, Muad'Dib, Mudir Nahya, Usul

    • HERBERT (Frank). Interviews (1969-1985)

      • HERBERT (Frank). Pronunciations in : Usul's Homepage <http://www.usul.net/books/sounds.htm>

        • JAMBET (Christian). "Note sur le lexique de l'Imperium (Dune, p.731 sq.)", pp. 277-281 in : LARDREAU (Guy). Fictions philosophiques et science-fiction. Arles : Actes Sud, 1988, 283 p.

            :arrow: Ghanima, Ibn Qirtaiba, Muad'Dib, Usul

          • BAYEHELDIN (Khalid). "Arabic and Islamic themes in Frank Herbert's "Dune"" in : The Bayeheldin Dynasty [Website]. Posted on February 02, 2004 <http://baheyeldin.com/literature/arabic-and-islamic-themes-in-frank-herberts-dune.html>

              :arrow: Alia, Ghanima, Ibn Qirtaiba, Muad'Dib, Mudir Nahya, Nayla, Otheym, Rabban, Thufir Hawat, Usul

            • PLANTE-JOURDAIN (Claudia). "Le vocabulaire étranger dans la réflexion politique de Dune", pp. 73-89 in : Cercles, n°14, 2005 [on line pdf]

                :arrow: Muad'Dib, Usul, Atreides, Alia, Ghanima, Harkonnen

              • ERIS [Pseudonym]. "Baron Harkonnen, of Finland?" in: Masks of Eris [blog] Posted on March 9, 2011<http://masksoferis.wordpress.com/2011/03/09/baron-harkonnen-of-finland/>


                  et cetera ....


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                    Re: Etymology of Dune names

                    Postby Kwisatz » 18 Jul 2013 15:34

                    Great list of articles and books. Some of them known, some of them not. Let's do some more digging ;)

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                    Re: Etymology of Dune names

                    Postby ᴶᵛᵀᴬ » 04 Aug 2013 11:20

                    Atreus & Atreides : Was there specific evidence that Dune's house of Atreides was related to Ancient Greeks?

                    From God Emperor of Dune: (Leto II speaking, in one of his journals)

                    My paternal grandfather was The Atreides, descendant of the House of Atreus and tracing his ancestry directly back to the Greek original.


                    And from Children of Dune: (of Alia)

                    Other voices wove around her mind: "I, Agamemnon, your ancestor, demand audience!"


                    And from Heretics of Dune:

                    Even on Gammu, few admitted to either Harkonnen or Atreides ancestry, although the genotypes were visible here—especially the dominant Atreides: those long, sharp noses, the high foreheads and sensual mouths. Often, the pieces were scattered—the mouth on one face, those piercing eyes on another and countless mixtures. Sometimes, though, one person carried it all and then you saw the pride, that inner knowledge:

                    “I am one of them!”

                    Gammu’s natives recognized it and gave it walkway room but few labeled it.

                    Underlying all of this was what the Harkonnens had left behind—genetic lines tracing far away into the dawn times of Greek and Pathan and Mameluke, shadows of ancient history that few outside of professional historians or those trained by the Bene Gesserit could even name.


                    So, just within the Frank Herbert books, it is clear that the ancestry is supposed to be directly linked to the Greek house of Atreus, whose two sons Agamemnon and Menelaus were the Atreides.


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                        Re: Etymology of Dune names

                        Postby Freakzilla » 05 Aug 2013 09:46

                        There's more!
                        From Alia's Other Memory:

                        "Prescience does this to you," a voice whispered.
                        She covered her ears with her hands, thinking: I'm not prescient! The trance
                        doesn't work for me!
                        But the voice persisted: "It might work, if you had help."
                        "No . . . no," she whispered.
                        Other voices wove around her mind: "I, Agamemnon, your ancestor, demand
                        audience!"

                        "No . . . no. "She pressed her hands against her ears until the flesh
                        answered her with pain.


                        ...

                        "Very well! I'll keep trying to dissuade you. This course is madness." And
                        Irulan wondered why she let Ghanima become so irritating. A Bene Gesserit didn't
                        need to be irritated at anything. She said: "I'm concerned by the extreme danger
                        to you. You know that. Ghani, Ghani . . . you're Paul's daughter. How can you --
                        "
                        "Because I'm his daughter," Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon
                        and we know what's in our blood.
                        Never forget that, childless wife of my father.
                        We Atreides have a bloody history and we're not through with the blood."
                        Distracted, Irulan asked: "Who's Agamemnon?"
                        "How sparse your vaunted Bene Gesserit education proves itself," Ghanima
                        said. "I keep forgetting that you foreshorten history. But my memories go back
                        to . . ." She broke off; best not to arouse those shades from their fragile
                        sleep.


                        ~CoD
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                        Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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