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Freakzilla
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fatwa

Postby Freakzilla » 11 May 2015 18:00

https://bridgeofhrethgir.wordpress.com/ ... /09/59151/

FLYING MONKEYS... ATTACK!

Mind you this is a revised version of his blahg after some feedback. In his original unedited version he accused us, the OH, of deifying FH.

Pour his water on the sand.
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Freakzilla
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Re: fatwa

Postby Freakzilla » 11 May 2015 21:03

Where is don quixote when we need him?
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georgiedenbro
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Re: fatwa

Postby georgiedenbro » 12 May 2015 02:44

I posted this, in case he decides not to allow it to appear on his site:

The Tleilaxu quote you’ve chosen as the prelude to your blog entry undermines everything you say following it. The quote’s meaning is that any person who claims grand stature in order to control others can becomes ensnared by the logic of his own claims. It means that when someone defines himself in narrow terms this can be used to force him down the requisite path he must follow in order to adhere to the definition he has created. The quote is about how those who would use the image of hero or god to manipulate others can be undermined through this same image and its limitations.

And yet subsequent to the quote you speak of Herbert fans who would deify him, thus ignoring the fact that the quote is not about the dangers of deifying someone else but rather of a man deifying himself, which you yourself admit Herbert did not do. Aside from the fact that this renders the quote you chose as non sequitur to your general point, I will also mention that it’s worse than that – you accuse Herbert’s fans of missing his message, while you have used his text in a way that fundamentally misunderstands it. Who are you to judge those who actually do study his text carefully?

But as some others have said, you should be careful of confusing the concept of elevating a writer to the role of revered teacher with deifying him. To deify that which is human is to turn it into a meaningless idol, whereas to learn from those we hold most high elevates both them and us.


Maybe I should have made it kinder...
"um-m-m-ah-h-h-hm-m-m-m!"

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Re: fatwa

Postby D Pope » 12 May 2015 10:28

georgiedenbro wrote:Maybe I should have made it kinder...

Kudos for thinking it but I don't remember any preeq ever owning up to his mistakes or
admitting he'd outgrown his folly. Not that I don't hold out hope- how cool would it be to
find an honest to goodness convert? I think it's the lack of some essential thing that
makes them preeqs in the first place.

Anyway, he's got a channel on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/user/BridgeofHrethgir
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
-Omphalos

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Serkanner
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Re: fatwa

Postby Serkanner » 12 May 2015 17:38

I posted two replies regarding this article and both of them were not in any way abusive or insulting or what you might have. Last time I checked they weren't published.

In all honesty I assumed the "war" was over ... perhaps not completely though.
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

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and wrote a Dune Novel."

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Ampoliros
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Re: fatwa

Postby Ampoliros » 13 May 2015 02:11

Yeah looks like he cleaned house in the comments when he edited the entry, my response is gone as well.
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lotek
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Re: fatwa

Postby lotek » 13 May 2015 05:23

His first post was garbage, naming the OH as an example of fans becoming nothing better than cultists... That's so missing the point, and typical of noobs that don't seem to understand what dedication means.
Certainly not worshiping someone like a god. (although I'd make an exception for Cylon Number 6)

I thought preeqs had all but dwindled out though, I'm surprised to see this pop up I must say...

Oh and
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I'd worship that for a dollar.
Spice is the worm's gonads.

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Re: fatwa

Postby D Pope » 13 May 2015 10:00

Before it changes again;

How Frank Herbert’s Fans Have Ignored Him
May 9, 2015 / James Lehnen

This is a revision of what I originally wrote. I felt that I went off from what I was trying to
focus on and instead I went into something that I try avoiding because of the usual arguments,
which I dont usually mind but sometimes can be quite repetitive.I kept parts of the original
that I felt still fit with what I was trying to convey. I’m not sure if it’s still completely what
I’m trying to get at, but it works.

Here lies a toppled god—
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.
– Tleilaxu Epigram

There is no doubt that as long as fiction endures Frank Herbert will be remembered as one
of its greatest writers. His world creation and plot depth are truly extraordinary and compelling
and like many great science fiction writers of his time he not only tells a story but informs
and teaches through his writings. He has written about many different topics: ecology, politics,
religion, economics, technology, etc. The novel he is most known for, Dune and its sequels,
includes these topics and many more but one of the greatest messages this novel conveys is
heroism. In short Frank Herbert warns against making someone a hero or making them more
than what they are.

“We do nasty things to our leaders. We shoot them in the streets of Dallas, hang them on
pieces of wood . . .” This is a statement made by Herbert in Dune: A Recorded Interview. One
can say it’s the idea of how leaders or leader figures are negatively affected when their followers
idolize them so much. The fans of Dune are guilty of letting this lesson go in one ear and out the
other because we do, in fact, make Frank Herbert more than what he has ever wanted to be in
someone else’s eyes. In an untitled audio recorded interview, Herbert speaks of how people asked
him if he was trying to start a cult, his response: “For the love of God, read the books again!”
In Dune: A Recorded interview and the ebook Four Science Fiction Masters he touches on the same
question and gives similar responses. Yet we come together to discuss this message while ignoring
his own words. In our minds we give him the image of a character he has many times warned against.
We are, at best, the definition of fanatics and at our worst a cult. We have to ask ourselves does
this negatively affect the image of Frank Herbert?








...
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
-Omphalos

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Re: fatwa

Postby D Pope » 13 May 2015 10:05

All current comments dispalyed;



8 thoughts on “How Frank Herbert’s Fans Have Ignored Him”

Wayne Ivens
May 13, 2015 at 12:02 am

Calling a spade a spade doesn’t diminish or enhance the rest of the deck. For lack of any better explanation, I think you’ve fallen in with a group that has given you the wrong idea. The Orthodox Herbertarians have cataloged loads of mistakes in the Dune books. You’ve said that you changed your content because you didn’t want to get into the whole Dune vs. mcDune thing- you’ve also accused real Dune fans of hypocrisy and what’s worse, you don’t seem interested in explaining your reasons. These actions are familiar to Orthodox Herbertarians, people who get mad at us for not liking mcDune are called preeqs.



Freakzilla
May 11, 2015 at 5:28 pm

No, what you did in your original post was accuse the Orthodoxed Herbertarians (OH) of holding Frank Herbert up as a hero. As a hero of Science Fiction writing you may be right, he was a master. But he made mistakes and we’ve pointed them out ourselves. As the founder of Jacurutu.com and a leader of the OH I have to say you don’t know what you’re talking about. Criticizing the massed produced, “on time”, pulp of Kevin Anderson and Brian Herbert are in no way the same as deifying Frank.

I’ve been studying FH and have participated in online communities and I know for a fact that NO ONE understands his themes and ideas better than the Orthodoxed Herbertarians.


James Lehnen
May 11, 2015 at 5:43 pm

In any case that’s not what I was trying to get at. That was why I revised it.


Freakzilla
May 11, 2015 at 5:45 pm

So how exactly are we ignoring him?


Wayne Ivens
May 11, 2015 at 6:09 pm

You’ve stated you opinion, defend it!



Wayne Ivens
May 11, 2015 at 12:33 pm

“Yet we come together to discuss this message while ignoring his own words. In our minds we give him the image of a character he has many times warned against. ”
Who are you talking about here? Who deifies Frank Herbert?

“We are, at best, the definition of fanatics and at our worst a cult. We have to ask ourselves does this negatively affect the image of Frank Herbert? ”
I’m guessing you think it does, could you please explain?



Nicolai Serkanner
May 11, 2015 at 11:38 am

Why did you change the text of this blog entry after publishing?


James Lehnen
May 11, 2015 at 11:47 am

As I stated above, I just felt I got away from what I originally had intended. I didn’t really want to get into a comparison, or whatever you want to call it, of the extended and original universes and that’s what I ended up doing.
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
-Omphalos

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Sardaukar Capt
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Re: fatwa

Postby Sardaukar Capt » 13 May 2015 18:37

Just another delusional fan-boy so enamored with McDune and tehkja that he's decided to carry their flag and water for them. He betrays his true motives and intentions with the very name of his blag, fartbook, and twatter: "Bridge of Hrethgir". A McDune only setting. He claims on his fartbook that his posts aren't BoBo "propaganda" but it would take a moron not to see through the kid. I feel bad for him. When his balls finally drop and re-reads the McDune he's so in love with now, he'll have that epiphany about what a complete twit he's been and how BAD McDune is.
The name Atreides was also consciously chosen. It is the family name of Agamemnon. Says Herbert, "I wanted a sense of monumental aristocracy, but with tragedy hanging over them--and in our culture, Agamemnon personifies that."
Frank Herbert by Tim O'Reilly
http://tim.oreilly.com/herbert/

Ghanima said. "We Atreides go back to Agamemnon..."
Distracted, Irulan asked: "Who's Agamemnon?"

Children of Dune by Frank Herbert

WTF? A BG forgets the Titans?! :)

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Re: fatwa

Postby georgiedenbro » 13 May 2015 21:11

Sardaukar Capt wrote:Just another delusional fan-boy so enamored with McDune and tehkja that he's decided to carry their flag and water for them. He betrays his true motives and intentions with the very name of his blag, fartbook, and twatter: "Bridge of Hrethgir". A McDune only setting. He claims on his fartbook that his posts aren't BoBo "propaganda" but it would take a moron not to see through the kid. I feel bad for him. When his balls finally drop and re-reads the McDune he's so in love with now, he'll have that epiphany about what a complete twit he's been and how BAD McDune is.


Yes, because of course the best way to honor FH and to avoid 'forgetting him' is to read books written by people other than him and ridicule people who prefer his books.
"um-m-m-ah-h-h-hm-m-m-m!"

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Re: fatwa

Postby Ampoliros » 13 May 2015 22:17

It’s summer blockbuster movie season, and we’re ready for the biggest movies of the year. Gigantic budgets, incredible special effects, 3D IMAX, fantastic colors, amazing images, explosions, monsters, super heroes. The studios promise to show you things that you’ve never seen before.
But, I have. In my imagination, as I develop my stories and write my novels. I’ve seen things that no filmmaker could ever put on screen. With words, you see, I’ve got an unlimited special effects budget.


I looked this up because it popped in my head a few minutes ago and my brain immediately cracked the joke that he has an unlimited special effects budget, and his writing comes across like a bad SyFy show with terrible effects.
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Omphalos
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Re: fatwa

Postby Omphalos » 14 May 2015 11:08

Ampoliros wrote:
It’s summer blockbuster movie season, and we’re ready for the biggest movies of the year. Gigantic budgets, incredible special effects, 3D IMAX, fantastic colors, amazing images, explosions, monsters, super heroes. The studios promise to show you things that you’ve never seen before.
But, I have. In my imagination, as I develop my stories and write my novels. I’ve seen things that no filmmaker could ever put on screen. With words, you see, I’ve got an unlimited special effects budget.


I looked this up because it popped in my head a few minutes ago and my brain immediately cracked the joke that he has an unlimited special effects budget, and his writing comes across like a bad SyFy show with terrible effects.


Nice.

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Re: fatwa

Postby Omphalos » 14 May 2015 11:20

I had totally purged the term/story of the bridge of hrethgir from my mind. I hate that kid just because he reminded me of it.

Anyone capture the original post?

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lotek
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Re: fatwa

Postby lotek » 15 May 2015 06:33

I remember it specifically mentioned Orthodox Herbertarians.
I was all like "oooh that's nice, they remember us!"
Spice is the worm's gonads.

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Ampoliros
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Re: fatwa

Postby Ampoliros » 15 May 2015 19:18

The jist of it as best I can remember was that we were attacking the new books because we worship Frank Herbert, and were ignoring Frank's plea that he wasn't trying to start a cult.

BTW, I need $10 from everyone, the 'spice' didn't wash out of the robes after our last meeting and I'm going to have to take them to be professionally cleaned.
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Re: fatwa

Postby georgiedenbro » 15 May 2015 23:00

Ampoliros wrote:The jist of it as best I can remember was that we were attacking the new books because we worship Frank Herbert, and were ignoring Frank's plea that he wasn't trying to start a cult.

BTW, I need $10 from everyone, the 'spice' didn't wash out of the robes after our last meeting and I'm going to have to take them to be professionally cleaned.


It must have been a great party, I don't even remember it :D
"um-m-m-ah-h-h-hm-m-m-m!"

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lotek
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Re: fatwa

Postby lotek » 19 May 2015 05:26

Suffice to say that the spice flowed.
Spice is the worm's gonads.


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