The HLP: many are HERBERTS

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loremaster
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Postby loremaster » 16 May 2008 06:54

I have to admit, Byron never seems to respond to a single valid criticism, preferring to jump on the several posts which instead can be answered (usually by squealing "Flame Bait", or crying to Mods, or similar).

WITHOUT (and this is important) noticing that the only reason flame-baiting occurs (and all the general hilarity of the insults) is because he doesn't answer the legit posts.

I've lost count of the threads now which follow the pattern:

[byron or someone else posts drivel]

Byron, please state why you think this, considering *Valid point A,B,C,D, etc*. Or answer this question which might help us understand your viewpoint

[No Reply or more drivel]

Byron, how do you feel about this, you have a unique opportunity to deliver insight with your position, yet you arent, we'd like you as a font of information, even if it isnt information we'll be glad about hearing

[more ignorance, irrelevance or drivel]

Byron you're such a tit for not answering, or for answering with such bollocks

Byron: He's flaming/trolling/namecalling and This is why i wont be productive in discussions
The HLP hasnt released Frank's notes yet, Brian hasn't got the handwriting quite right!

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Postby GamePlayer » 16 May 2008 09:43

Nebiros wrote:For those of you annoyed by this thread:

I'm willing to shut up now since I made my point clear and nobody argues against it. But if this thread keeps going, I'm tempted to say more.

Then there is the option of locking this thread. I don't mind, I've already said what has to be said.


Note Exhibit A: the infamous wall of ignorance followed quickly by the manufactured victory. Are you reading this, ODD?

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Postby Nekhrun » 16 May 2008 12:27

Nebiros wrote:Shall I repeat myself? Frank loved his family despite their flaws. He'd be happy for Brian and proud of his acheivements. Or he'd feel betrayed. Simple as that.

How do you know? It seems to me that they really didn't know each other that well at all after reading their books and little tidbits here and there. Frank seemed pretty private. You're also the one who didn't think he could truly love more than one woman in his lifetime. This kind of shallow man in your world-view would have no problem distancing himself from his family.

You've really gone off your rocker with this thread. :roll:

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Postby Mandy » 16 May 2008 13:05

loremaster wrote:I have to admit, Byron never seems to respond to a single valid criticism, preferring to jump on the several posts which instead can be answered (usually by squealing "Flame Bait", or crying to Mods, or similar).

WITHOUT (and this is important) noticing that the only reason flame-baiting occurs (and all the general hilarity of the insults) is because he doesn't answer the legit posts.

I've lost count of the threads now which follow the pattern:

[byron or someone else posts drivel]

Byron, please state why you think this, considering *Valid point A,B,C,D, etc*. Or answer this question which might help us understand your viewpoint

[No Reply or more drivel]

Byron, how do you feel about this, you have a unique opportunity to deliver insight with your position, yet you arent, we'd like you as a font of information, even if it isnt information we'll be glad about hearing

[more ignorance, irrelevance or drivel]

Byron you're such a tit for not answering, or for answering with such bollocks

Byron: He's flaming/trolling/namecalling and This is why i wont be productive in discussions


Exactly.. I haven't had more than a few words with him and I noticed that right from the beginning.

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Postby orald » 16 May 2008 16:33

Freakzilla wrote:I'd like to think we can do better than name calling. :(

Yea, we should go straight to killing! There's nothing beats killin'! :twisted:
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.

I wish I could have been with you that one last time.

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Postby SandChigger » 16 May 2008 19:57

For some reason this morning I'm finding a new appreciation for the consistency in your rather bizarre bloodlust. :D
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Crysknife » 16 May 2008 20:10

Mandy wrote:
loremaster wrote:I have to admit, Byron never seems to respond to a single valid criticism, preferring to jump on the several posts which instead can be answered (usually by squealing "Flame Bait", or crying to Mods, or similar).

WITHOUT (and this is important) noticing that the only reason flame-baiting occurs (and all the general hilarity of the insults) is because he doesn't answer the legit posts.

I've lost count of the threads now which follow the pattern:

[byron or someone else posts drivel]

Byron, please state why you think this, considering *Valid point A,B,C,D, etc*. Or answer this question which might help us understand your viewpoint

[No Reply or more drivel]

Byron, how do you feel about this, you have a unique opportunity to deliver insight with your position, yet you arent, we'd like you as a font of information, even if it isnt information we'll be glad about hearing

[more ignorance, irrelevance or drivel]

Byron you're such a tit for not answering, or for answering with such bollocks

Byron: He's flaming/trolling/namecalling and This is why i wont be productive in discussions


Exactly.. I haven't had more than a few words with him and I noticed that right from the beginning.


This is so true.
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Postby Mr. Teg » 16 May 2008 22:12

loremaster wrote:I have to admit, Byron never seems to respond to a single valid criticism, preferring to jump on the several posts which instead can be answered (usually by squealing "Flame Bait", or crying to Mods, or similar).

WITHOUT (and this is important) noticing that the only reason flame-baiting occurs (and all the general hilarity of the insults) is because he doesn't answer the legit posts.

I've lost count of the threads now which follow the pattern:

[byron or someone else posts drivel]

Byron, please state why you think this, considering *Valid point A,B,C,D, etc*. Or answer this question which might help us understand your viewpoint

[No Reply or more drivel]

Byron, how do you feel about this, you have a unique opportunity to deliver insight with your position, yet you arent, we'd like you as a font of information, even if it isnt information we'll be glad about hearing

[more ignorance, irrelevance or drivel]

Byron you're such a tit for not answering, or for answering with such bollocks

Byron: He's flaming/trolling/namecalling and This is why i wont be productive in discussions


Yes, exactly.

If there is one post Byron should respond, it's this one.
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Postby Spice Grandson » 17 May 2008 16:24

Freakzilla wrote:Since you don't answer on DN, I'll ask again here:

Is KJA a member of the HLP?

Does he have a contract with the HLP?

Is he blackmailing the HLP?

Why is KJA still writing Dune books?


Don't know how many times I need to say this; guess it still hasn't sunk in, so I'll repeat it here:

If you want to talk about Dune or other FH, BH and KJA stories, I'm cool with that. But I won't discuss HLP business matters. Contracts, membership, etc. is no one's business outside of the HLP. Hope that clears it up ...but somehow I doubt it will.
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Postby orald » 17 May 2008 16:56

To his defence, he might get in legal trouble if indeed he's not supposed to be out spilling the juicy details.

Though I'm sure some details could still be told.
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.



I wish I could have been with you that one last time.

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Postby Spice Grandson » 17 May 2008 17:28

...but somehow I doubt it will.



bryanvdk wrote: i think that means that he's blackmailing them and part of the deal is they can't discuss HLP matters...


:roll: I must be prescient.
Last edited by Spice Grandson on 17 May 2008 19:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Nekhrun » 17 May 2008 17:57

bryanvdk wrote:
Spice Grandson wrote:
Don't know how many times I need to say this; guess it still hasn't sunk in, so I'll repeat it here:

If you want to talk about Dune or other FH, BH and KJA stories, I'm cool with that. But I won't discuss HLP business matters. Contracts, membership, etc. is no one's business outside of the HLP. Hope that clears it up ...but somehow I doubt it will.


i think that means that he's blackmailing them and part of the deal is they can't discuss HLP matters...

I think he may have been talked to about a year or so ago after discussing business practices with us. I guess I can't blame him for that. I do hope that all of the members are aware of the demand for some fresh authors though.

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Postby Omphalos » 17 May 2008 19:15

Spice Grandson wrote:
...but somehow I doubt it will.



bryanvdk wrote: i think that means that he's blackmailing them and part of the deal is they can't discuss HLP matters...


:roll: I must be prescient.


Too bad you didnt foresee how crappy the new books would be and put Brian in a twelve step for hack writing earlier. YOu would have avoided a bunch of h/a.

Byron, I have a non-Dune question for you. What are your ten favorite non-Herbert, non-Dune SF books? And why do you like them? Care to answer at least that?

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Postby Spice Grandson » 17 May 2008 19:56

Omphalos wrote:
Spice Grandson wrote:
...but somehow I doubt it will.



bryanvdk wrote: i think that means that he's blackmailing them and part of the deal is they can't discuss HLP matters...


:roll: I must be prescient.


Too bad you didnt foresee how crappy the new books would be and put Brian in a twelve step for hack writing earlier. YOu would have avoided a bunch of h/a.

Byron, I have a non-Dune question for you. What are your ten favorite non-Herbert, non-Dune SF books? And why do you like them? Care to answer at least that?


Sure....

#1 - TO SAY NOTHING OF THE DOG by Connie Willis. Met Mrs. Willis not long ago. Great lady. Not to mention a great writing talent. Infusing historical literature with SF and comedy could be challenging for anyone, but she pulled it off exceptionally well.

#2 - ENDER'S GAME by Orson Scott Card. Enjoyed it many years back due to its brain-tweaking ending. Re-read it recently and still enjoyed it. It's also a very accessible novel for adults and kids alike. The latter novels in the series are more adult, though.

#3 - HYPERION by Dan Simmons. He did similar work like Mrs. Willis where he took historical literature and put a SF remix in it. Also, loved the Shrike. Freaky. Unusual. Original.

#4 - FOUNDATION by Issac Asimov. Well-rounded story with great futuristic insights, especially as they pertain to our knowledge of technology and society, and how they might be used and abused.

#5 - THE EYRE AFFAIR by Jasper Fforde. Really a guilty pleasure read but also very original in terms of the comedy mixed with historical literature (again!).

#6 - SUDANNA SUDANNA by Brian Herbert. Probably Brian's best non-Dune book, in my opinion. The music, ecology and Douglas Adams slapstick style humor made this one a winner for me.

#7 - AMERICAN GODS by Neil Gaiman. Originality is the key word here. Gods that crossed the seas and came to America. The creation of wholly new Gods. Wildly entertaining. More of a fantasy novel, though.

#8 - FRANKENSTEIN by Mary Shelley. Classic. Well-wrought. Still significant today in our gene-splicing era.

#9 - BLINDFOLD by Kevin J. Anderson. If you can get past the tacky cover, this book is absolutely riveting. You can see hints of Dune's influence on KJA, but the story is entirely original and I've often told Kevin I'd like to see a sequel to it. I believe this to be Kevin's best work.

#10 - CRYPTONOMICON by Neal Stephenson. Epic in size and scope, a book that has over 1,000 pages but never lags. Phenomenal use of history, SF, and several other genres, the book really defies classification.

These are my current top ten favs. My tastes change from time to time, but these are my present standouts.

Go ahead and rip away. I'm sure you will. Seems to be what you guys do best here.
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Postby orald » 17 May 2008 20:06

Spice Grandson wrote:#9 - BLINDFOLD by Kevin J. Anderson. If you can get past the tacky cover, this book is absolutely riveting. You can see hints of Dune's influence on KJA, but the story is entirely original and I've often told Kevin I'd like to see a sequel to it. I believe this to be Kevin's best work.

Oww, oh no...

Well, since I am somewhat prescient I know this won't go well with SC and others. :shock:

Omph wrote:Byron, I have a non-Dune question for you. What are your ten favorite non-Herbert, non-Dune SF books?

There are other books in the world besides Frank's?! :o :shock:
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.



I wish I could have been with you that one last time.

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Postby SandChigger » 17 May 2008 20:09

Well, I'd like to comment here but I've sorta been threatened with legal action for cyberstalking.
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby HoosierDaddy » 17 May 2008 20:52

SandChigger wrote:Well, I'd like to comment here but I've sorta been threatened with legal action for cyberstalking.


:lol:

Your kidding, right?

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Postby Freakzilla » 17 May 2008 21:38

I have a feeling he's not.

For the second time, I'd like to point out that we have a rule against personal attacks against other members.

We all need to show Byron some respect as a member. No more name calling or insults. If you don't like what the HLP is doing, that's fine and you can say so, I don't like it either.

We're all intelligent adults here, I think, and I expect you all to police yourselves in regard to the very few rules I've given us.

I'd like for Byron to have the opportunity to enjoy this forum as the closet OH we know he is.

(No offense, Byron :P )
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Postby SandChigger » 17 May 2008 21:42

HoosierDaddy wrote:
SandChigger wrote:Well, I'd like to comment here but I've sorta been threatened with legal action for cyberstalking.


:lol:

Your kidding, right?

Nope.

The only aspect that even remotely concerns me is the implied additional threat to Freak as admin of this board. Essentially this is just another attempt to influence the content and administration of a board not under their direct control. (Muzzle the loudmouth, get him off my/our back(s), or there'll be trouble!)

Freak, I'll leave the crybaby alone here from now. But if you'd prefer I leave the board, I'll understand.
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Freakzilla » 17 May 2008 21:57

SandChigger wrote:
HoosierDaddy wrote:
SandChigger wrote:Well, I'd like to comment here but I've sorta been threatened with legal action for cyberstalking.


:lol:

Your kidding, right?

Nope.

The only aspect that even remotely concerns me is the implied additional threat to Freak as admin of this board. Essentially this is just another attempt to influence the content and administration of a board not under their direct control. (Muzzle the loudmouth, get him off my/our back(s), or there'll be trouble!)


Just for the record, I wasn't threatened.

Freak, I'll leave the crybaby alone here from now. But if you'd prefer I leave the board, I'll understand.


Now you're being silly. You have a passion for Dune that rivals only Orald in fanaticism, you belong here.

I'll give Byron credit where it's due, he puts up with a lot I don't think he deserves. He's only complained to me this once. I told Byron this and I'll tell you all again: Say what you will about the HLP, just don't get personal.
Last edited by Freakzilla on 17 May 2008 21:57, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Freakzilla » 17 May 2008 22:03

bryanvdk wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:I have a feeling he's not.

For the second time, I'd like to point out that we have a rule against personal attacks against other members.

We all need to show Byron some respect as a member. No more name calling or insults. If you don't like what the HLP is doing, that's fine and you can say so, I don't like it either.

We're all intelligent adults here, I think, and I expect you all to police yourselves in regard to the very few rules I've given us.

I'd like for Byron to have the opportunity to enjoy this forum as the closet OH we know he is.

(No offense, Byron :P )



does that mean we'd have to be nice to KJA if he came on here? i mean you need rules but the line has to be drawn somewhere :P


When have I enforced any rules? I have yet to edit or delete a post or lock a topic. The line is here. A member has complained and I am asking you all to chill out.

I would be the first one to challenge KJA's Dune knowledge if he showed up here, but I can do that without calling him names.
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Postby HoosierDaddy » 17 May 2008 22:11

I'm having a hard time understanding what "personal attack" means here, and what specifically Byron found offensive. If it was a specific post, I'd like to see it for future reference.

Also, is this "stalking" claim referring to posts on other sites/blogs?

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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 17 May 2008 22:35

#3 - HYPERION by Dan Simmons. He did similar work like Mrs. Willis where he took historical literature and put a SF remix in it. Also, loved the Shrike. Freaky. Unusual. Original.


I'm just about two chapters into this one, I'm taking everyone's word that it's great... bit cheesy so far, but that has never stopped me yet.

#4 - FOUNDATION by Issac Asimov. Well-rounded story with great futuristic insights, especially as they pertain to our knowledge of technology and society, and how they might be used and abused.


I don't really need to say anything about this one, don't think it can really be argued with.
Haven't read the rest, Ender's Game is on my short list though.
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Postby GamePlayer » 17 May 2008 23:23

If you're being threatened with legal action, you'd be well advised to educate yourself in the legal specifics. You may not even come close to fitting the requirements for any actionable charge, despite the fact that you're being threatened with it. You may also be surprised at the options you have just for being threatened. Just some advice.

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Postby SandChigger » 17 May 2008 23:27

Well, I'm going to cease and desist, so I presume this will be the end of it.

Freakzilla wrote:Just for the record, I wasn't threatened.

Not explicity, no. Look between the lines again.

Now you're being silly.

I do that on occasion. ;)

Seriously, I'm still trying to figure out what other sites I am "almost like ... stalking" him on. The only place we have interacted besides here is DuneNovels (where I'm banned), Arrakeen (which is dead) and Amazon...where we've had words on the discussion threads of various Sandworm reviews (and the most recent of those last year?) and I have him in my "Interesting People" group...along with a bunch of other people. I haven't voted on or even read any of his reviews there for a long time. I have read his comments on DuneNovels and commented on them here and elsewhere. If these actions constitute "stalking" these days, I guess I need to update my mental dictionary.

As for me "[cyber]stalking" "anyone having to do with the HLP", who is he talking about? He can't mean Brian, because Brian hasn't got a cyber-presence at all. The only other Herbert online that I know of is Kim, and other than some sniping at her MySpace page when she joined there (about her username and page design), I've left her alone. I'd have to pull out the books and look through the intros and afterwords to find the names of the other HLP members...so you know I'm "stalking" them online. :roll:

That leaves good ole Kevin. Kevin, whose "blog" I read on MySpace and its DuneNovels mirror and comment on elsewhere, since I'm banned from commenting on it on MySpace. Whose Wordfire site I have accessed so few times I could probably count them on one hand. Whom I haven't exchanged emails or other messages with for a half year or more. I have no knowledge of any other online venues where Kevin might be a member...and I couldn't be less interested. So following his Dune- and other writing activities and posts on two websites is "stalking" him? Really?

Wow.

Nah, not to worry, I won't call Byron names anymore. Like his cousin Kim he's a non-player, irrelevant. Like all of the HLP, actually.

Kevin's apparently the one in control now. He's the only one that matters.

(Speaking of the Dark Lord...do I detect a whiff of his stench in the air, kinda like back when I got banned from the DN BBS? ;) )
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA


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