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    Did Hawat screw up?

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    Re: Did Hawat screw up?

    Postby Serkanner » 08 Sep 2017 15:36

    pcqypcqy wrote:
    georgiedenbro wrote:
    pcqypcqy wrote:A lot of people have said there was nothing they could have done, but I think they could/would have gone renegade had they thought this scale invasion was likely. They were already thinking about it when being forced to walk into the trap of what they thought was a normal scale invasion. Had they gotten wind of any of this, they would have bugged out instantly I think.


    They had other tools at their disposal had they seen it coming. Exposure would be the most effective, as the Landsraad would have prevented it themselves. The attack either had to be totally secret or else be called off. Also, even if the attack happened as planned but the shield stayed up, it might have allowed the Atreides to stall long enough to send word about what was happening. The Sardaukar were only going to stay so long as the Emperor wasn't implicated.



    These are all good points.

    Depends on how invovled/complicit the Guild were in all of this. At the very least, they knew about it all to have permitted the transport of all the troops. Any communication would had to have been via the guild, or else a radio signal at the speed of light, however I don't think this is how communication was run between planets in Dune. So if the Guild were complicit, and didn't want the message to get out, they could have just isolated the Atreides until the battle was won.


    I think the involvement of the Guild makes it quite clear the invasion had no other possible outcome than a Harkonnen success. The Guild had prescience as a tool.
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    Re: Did Hawat screw up?

    Postby georgiedenbro » 08 Sep 2017 15:48

    Serkanner wrote:I think the involvement of the Guild makes it quite clear the invasion had no other possible outcome than a Harkonnen success. The Guild had prescience as a tool.


    I agree with that, the plan was likely verified to be locked up tight. However what they couldn't see was Paul, and certainly not past the nexus point that takes place near the end of the book. So while they knew the plan in the short term would work (up until the Harkonnen success) they didn't know the long-term ramification of it. So ironically, by locking down the future the way they did they actually guaranteed that they'd be brought to their knees. That's the problem with toying around with the future when you're shitty oracles :D It actually explains why they're so paranoid about perturbations and change; they probably know how weak they are at predicting chaotic things.
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