Dune 7: How would you have done it?

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Hunchback Jack
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Postby Hunchback Jack » 04 Jun 2008 15:24

A Thing of Eternity wrote:I don't know if there's much to say that he could have prescient knowledge about people with the Siona genes, so I'm inclined to put him as an asset not a danger.


Good point. The seeing now vs. prescience distinction was something I had missed.

I would guess though that [Duncan] would end up being the linchpin of the plot, probably just through making the tough choices (as opposed to gaining KH abilities etc).


Maybe, but I seem to remember speculation about unrealized potential via Tleilaxu gene tampering in CH:D. But is might just have been the BG being paranoid again.

I think he would have really ramped up the internal dischord, possibly with the intent of having the BG learn something of their own methods by looking in the "HM mirror". Just a thought.


Strongly agree with that last point.

I'm not 100% yet on being against some kind of Machine threat, though I would guess in that case that the SFD (is that what we're calling them?) would be at the helm, not the machines.


Or maybe human, but with the technological benefit of thinking machines. Maybe Scattering Ixians? Are there any of those?

In any case, if machines are involved, I would think them the result of a relaxation of Butlerian edicts during the Scattering, rather than hangovers from the ancient Jihad. If that's so, then the human could be defeated by exploiting their dependency on those machines.

Incidentally, it wasn't clear to me that Duncan's no-ship had actually moved into a different universe, just a completely different part of the current universe. Perhaps this is a topic for another time.

Yeah, I don't remember a tone from the end of chapterhouse but I think that was purly KJABH.


"We're an unidentifiable ship in an unidentifiable universe," Idaho said. "Isn't that what we wanted?"

This is the only sentence that can be interpreted to mean that they are in another universe, and I think that Duncan just meant that they couldn't identify anything around them. They are in "another world", a "strange universe".

HBJ

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A Thing of Eternity
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 04 Jun 2008 15:38

Agreed on all. I had forgotten the gene tampering.
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SandChigger
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Postby SandChigger » 04 Jun 2008 19:10

FH broached the possibility of alternate universes himself in CH:D:

"These speculations are useless," Bellonda muttered. "We don't even know if Foldspace introduces us to one universe or many...or even an infinite number of expanding and collapsing bubbles."

So it's kind of an open question where the no-ship ended up. The only thing that is definite is it wasn't the inchoate nebular mess depicted in Grunters.

Sheeana did not look up when he found her at the temporary flight-control board in the guard quarters. She was bent over the board, staring at it in consternation. The projection above her showed they had emerged from foldspace. Idaho recognized none of the visible star patterns but he had expected that.

If they are in a new, different universe, it begs the question of what possible relevance they can have to future events in the Duniverse, unless they find a way back. Which, barring divine midgetervention, seems next to impossible since their new location proves the many universes version of Foldspace. ;)

* * * * *

I've never really speculated much on what FH might have intended for any books after CH:D. I'm much more interested in the past and the Butlerian Jihad. :)
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Hunchback Jack
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Postby Hunchback Jack » 04 Jun 2008 20:04

Lucky for you we have three fat books that tell us everything we need to know.

Oh, wait ...

HBJ

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Postby SandChigger » 04 Jun 2008 23:10

Princess Irulan writes...

Dear Diary,

Well...The Bastard Himself is off somewhere in the dunes of Dune with the "Ole Ball and Chani", so I'm stuck here alone again avoiding that sneaky little bitch Alia. I think I'll start a new book or three and put out some really outrageous shit about the Butlerian Jihad. Gotta find something to fill the hours.
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Postby Hunchback Jack » 05 Jun 2008 00:25

SandChigger wrote:Well...The Bastard Himself is off somewhere in the dunes of Dune with the "Ole Ball and Chani",


Heh. I laughed out loud at that one.

HBJ

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Postby SandChigger » 05 Jun 2008 03:16

:D

I am but one that will do to swell a progress, start a scene or two, advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool, deferential, glad to be of use, full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse...at times, indeed, almost ridiculous—almost, at times, the Fool. :wink:
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Postby Dom » 15 Jun 2008 09:12

I haven't read Hunters or Sandworms. I made it through the Prelude to Dune books and, much later, one and a half Legends of Dune books, by which time I was so punch drunk from questionable writing, endless inaccuracies, the gleeful obsession with rape, torture, incest, baby killing and looooong battle scenes that I gave up the ghost. We were aware that terrible things went on in the Duniverse in Frank's books, but he didn't childishly revel in grotesquerie. Equally, I assumed the fact that he didn't include long descriptions of battle scenes and would jump straight to the aftermath was a prime example of the maturity of his writing and Beverly's editing. CH is a much poorer book than the other five for Franks illness and the lack of Beverly's input. It reads like it needs another draft!

Anyway, two things that struck me in CH:

IIRC, it mentions the Tleilaxu could control Duncan using the 'whistling languge' (I think that's what it was called: need to give the series a re-read!

And I did get the impression the nullentropy tube would be used. I thought Paul alone would be brought back to face the consequences of his actions thousands of years earlier. How would he feel facing his old friend Duncan?

I thought that perhaps Scytale would ultimately use the whistling language to make Duncan kill the Paul ghola at the end of the story and that Paul would destroy the nullentropy tube!

Wild speculation, of course!! ;)

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Postby trang » 15 Jun 2008 16:32

I have a good imagination and good memory, but its so screwed over by the BH/KJA crap I would be scared to commit heresy myself. I am reading a lot of other stuff but its getting to the point I need to reread the originals again.

So the best I could offer to be safe:

We create an Orthodox Herbertarian Aritificial Intelligence program. We input ever word printed in every version of the originals. We tell it to evaluate and contemplate.... press the "gimme something worthy" button, and see what it outputs.

If that doesnt work, Ill hook two car batteries to it and shock it to see if I can imprint it to maybe conjur the spirit of FH in it.

press the "Give me something worthy " button.

If that doesnt work, its the printer scene from office space...

and I'll just settle for the "left wanting" feeling at end of CH.

Fairday,
Trang
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Hunchback Jack
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Postby Hunchback Jack » 15 Jun 2008 17:38

trang wrote:If that doesnt work, its the printer scene from office space...


Nice movie reference.

HBJ

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Postby Dune Nerd » 01 Jul 2008 12:38

Don't know if anyone else has seen this before but this site was listed under a prequel/sequel bashing discussion.

Haven't read it yet myself but plan to, sounds entertaining at least.

http://www.geocities.com/dune_revenant/dune_revenant.html

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Postby Freakzilla » 01 Jul 2008 13:53

Dune Nerd wrote:Don't know if anyone else has seen this before but this site was listed under a prequel/sequel bashing discussion.

Haven't read it yet myself but plan to, sounds entertaining at least.

http://www.geocities.com/dune_revenant/dune_revenant.html


I thought it was pretty good. I haven't read it in years though.
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Postby Serkanner » 01 Jul 2008 15:05

I have read it a couple of years ago and liked it quite a bit actually.
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

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and wrote a Dune Novel."

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Postby Dune Nerd » 01 Jul 2008 15:12

Read the first chapter...
Quite nice, really liked how they jumped way to the future and are going back.

I have tried to block out stuff from P&B but it seems some basic things I remember from those books. Did they steal more material from other unsuspecting authors?

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Freakzilla
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Postby Freakzilla » 01 Jul 2008 15:14

Look for Dune Advent too, that another good fanfic.
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Postby Dune Nerd » 01 Jul 2008 15:15

Freakzilla wrote:Look for Dune Advent too, that another good fanfic.


Will do...

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Postby Seraphan » 11 Jul 2008 06:33

Wow! i just started reading Dune Revenant and it's really good, i wasnt expecting that. Guess the prequels and sequels lowered my expectations at fan fiction *pff* go figure :roll:
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Phaedrus
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Postby Phaedrus » 11 Jul 2008 12:48

SandChigger wrote::D

I am but one that will do to swell a progress, start a scene or two, advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool, deferential, glad to be of use, full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse...at times, indeed, almost ridiculous—almost, at times, the Fool. :wink:


I grow old... I grow old...

:P
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

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SandChigger
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Postby SandChigger » 11 Jul 2008 21:08

I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled. :D

Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?
I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.

I do not think that they will sing to me.

I have seen them riding seaward on the waves
Combing the white hair of the waves blown back
When the wind blows the water white and black.

We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.


Have you just recently read it for the first time, or just noticed my quoting of it?

I've loved it literally for decades; first read it in English class, maybe in junior high but probably in high school. He's one of my favorite poets. :D
"Let the dead give water to the dead. As for me, it's NO MORE FUCKING TEARS!"

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Phaedrus
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Postby Phaedrus » 11 Jul 2008 21:39

I read it for the first time...4 years ago?

I'm also a big fan. My first question over on the DNBBS Trivia thread asked from which 20th century poet did the Preacher take the phrase "Humans cannot bear very much reality."
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.

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SandChigger
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Postby SandChigger » 11 Jul 2008 21:57

:D

Guilty confession: For many years, if I got up in a certain mood on a Sunday morning, I would make a big pot of coffee and choose one of the four and pace around the apartment reading it out loud, book in one hand and sloshing mug in the other.

That's not weird...is it? :?


I never really got into the cat poems, tho. You?
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malika
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Postby malika » 15 Jul 2008 18:15

Freakzilla wrote:Look for Dune Advent too, that another good fanfic.


I really liked that one, up until Book 3. Also...I didn't really like the fact that Miles Teg and Sheeana aren't really important characters, I was hoping to see them take a more important role in the story.

Paul returning was to be expected I guess and him having Leto II judged is interesting. But wasn't Paul and Leto's plan to save humanity revolved around breaking the circle instead of completing it?

While these little things kind of bugged me I do think that this piece of fan-fic was a whole lot better than all the crap KJA and BH have written put together!

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Phaedrus
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Postby Phaedrus » 15 Jul 2008 21:20

SandChigger wrote::D

Guilty confession: For many years, if I got up in a certain mood on a Sunday morning, I would make a big pot of coffee and choose one of the four and pace around the apartment reading it out loud, book in one hand and sloshing mug in the other.

That's not weird...is it? :?


Not too weird, no. Poetry is even better if you read it out loud. The coffee and the pacing just make it better, I'm sure.


I never really got into the cat poems, tho. You?


Nope. There's some stuff written in French, too, that I never quite got around to trying to figure out. I can't pronounce French words, so I fail at even getting the sound and rhythm.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.