Internet hits on "Frank Herbert"

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Spicelon
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Internet hits on "Frank Herbert"

Postby Spicelon » 05 Jun 2008 00:08

Or more specifically, Google Alert hits. I will try to pass on some of the more
interesting blog/articles I come across.

This one is a blog post in response to P&B securing an additional four book deal
for the interquels. This guy also mentions some rather negative reviews of
the Dynamic Duo's output on Amazon. Hmmm....

Posted 2008-06-04:
http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/uncategorized/plunderers-of-dune/
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Hunchback Jack
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Postby Hunchback Jack » 05 Jun 2008 00:32

Not a bad blog at all. I agree with most of the conclusion too - that the prequels and sequels are good if they draw the attention of new readers to the originals.

The problem is that if there are enough Dune noves of questionable value, new readers may find it hard to find the originals. But maybe not.

HBJ

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Postby Serkanner » 05 Jun 2008 06:31

There are a few flaws with the reasoning regarding new Dune readers also reading the originals.

I wonder how many potential Dune fans are scared away after reading just one of the atrocities? Would you start reading the original after having read, lets say, Butlerian Jihad? Wouldn't you be revolted by it so much that you would never ever touch a book with Dune printed on it again?

It is hard to imagine that anybody liking the atrocities would also like the originals. Is it possible that anybody enjoying the gore in the atrocities is capable of enjoying the marvel that is Frank's work?

The increase in sales of the originals is more likely to be caused by the vast numbers of original Dune fans buying more copies for their stock, and not so much by atrocity lovers also buying the originals. I will only believe that after an independent inquiry.

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Spicelon
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Postby Spicelon » 05 Jun 2008 08:31

I was liking the tone of the article until the author cited the gore as the main
thing that made the House books bad. And to top it off, he thought the
political "intrigue" was good. WTF?
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orald
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Postby orald » 05 Jun 2008 08:53

Spicelon wrote:And to top it off, he thought the
political "intrigue" was good. WTF?

Uh, that would be the Evil mastermind Baron H. creating all kinds of new weapons and the Atreides being saved by sorceresses while they build their new cyborg army to defeat the Tleilaxu? :?
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GamePlayer
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Postby GamePlayer » 05 Jun 2008 10:04

A good article in the first half that ultimately devolves in the latter by flag waving for the perpetuation of mediocrity through pop culture penetration. I agree with Serkanner that due to the anachronistic publishing history of the post-Frank Dune series, most people will want to read the books in order starting at the "beginning" (meaning the prequels). After reading such crap, how many people are actually going to give Frank the benefit of the doubt? And if people love the prequel books, how many will actually appreciate the original Frank Herbert Dune novels as the far superior books that they are?

The answers are nothing if not dreadfully tragic.

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Postby Tleilax Master B » 05 Jun 2008 15:27

^^ Very well put Player. And that is the real tragedy. Taken alone, Frank's books will either really inspire you or will be above your head and you will likely lose interest. Mixed in in with the prequels/sequels they just get lost in a sea of shit. Its like putting a fine piece of art in a collage of mediocre, piss poor pieces :cry:
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Postby Hunchback Jack » 05 Jun 2008 18:11

GamePlayer wrote:After reading such crap, how many people are actually going to give Frank the benefit of the doubt? And if people love the prequel books, how many will actually appreciate the original Frank Herbert Dune novels as the far superior books that they are?


Very good point. Have to agree with you there.

HBJ

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Postby Seraphan » 10 Jul 2008 11:10

That's why they release so many novels and will continue to do so, unfortenatly. It's to call those people who enjoy that kind of mediocre sci-fi and establish them as "true Dune fans" :vomit: (sorry folks i have to throw up after saying this) who will in their turn eat everything that KJA puts in front of them. Man i hate that money sucking freak, "bestseller" my foot he just sold novels because they had Star Wars and X-Files on the cover wich have an already heavy established fanbase. Capitalizing on pre-established franchises and fanbase :evil: and acting as if he was good at it other than riping people off. Sorry i went on a rant :evil: but it's true nonetheless.
Last edited by Seraphan on 10 Jul 2008 12:49, edited 1 time in total.
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"The beginning of knowledge is the discovery of something we do not understand." - Frank Herbert
“This tutoring is dialectical. Literature makes us better noticers of life; we get to practice on life itself; which in turn makes us better readers of detail in literature; which in turn makes us better readers of life. And so on and on.” - James Wood

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Postby Freakzilla » 10 Jul 2008 11:19

You don't have to appologize for ranting here.
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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Postby Seraphan » 10 Jul 2008 11:31

Thanks Freak, after all this is the only place where i am free to speak. Here folks http://januarymagazine.com/SFF/dogged.html the point i laid out in my previous post has already been made: "I should point out that the 27 "Kevin J. Anderson" bestselling titles (so often alluded to throughout this book; excessive boasting, it seems, isn't problematic for Anderson and Rusch) were all franchise books, such as Star Wars, The X-Files and Dune novels. Bravo to him for landing such high-profile, high-paying gigs, but while other, non-Kevin J. Anderson Star Wars, The X-Files and Dune titles have charted, no non-franchise Kevin J. Anderson book can make that claim. It's rather spurious to emphasize his status as a bestselling author when, clearly, the brand that sold those books was never his name." and "Stories, to be alive (a more nuanced reading of the quip reveals), need to leave space for the reader's imagination, for the reader to create the story in the act of reading. Anderson's fiction is filled with his own ego, with his conviction that he has lessons to impart. As such, it cannot be read in a creative way, it does not invite the reader's imagination to roam its open spaces.". Read the rest. :lol:
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"The beginning of knowledge is the discovery of something we do not understand." - Frank Herbert
“This tutoring is dialectical. Literature makes us better noticers of life; we get to practice on life itself; which in turn makes us better readers of detail in literature; which in turn makes us better readers of life. And so on and on.” - James Wood

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Postby Freakzilla » 10 Jul 2008 11:52

That's good stuff...
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Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
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Postby A Thing of Eternity » 10 Jul 2008 14:20

Every book store I've ever been to in Canada (quite a few) only ever stocks KJA's latest solo hardcover novel. I have never seen a paperback - they are obviously under influence by the publishers to "give it a try" and then they give up when it doesn't sell. I can't think of any other reason behind it.
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Postby Pushtrak » 10 Jul 2008 14:30

GamePlayer wrote:After reading such crap, how many people are actually going to give Frank the benefit of the doubt? And if people love the prequel books, how many will actually appreciate the original Frank Herbert Dune novels as the far superior books that they are?

I started off "at the beginning" with the Prelude trilogy. I have to say, I did enjoy them when I read them. Still do, but they are nothing on the originals. And the alterations get on my tits big time. Guess what I am saying is that its not impossible for someone to get into the books this way, and find the originals better. In fact, I am sure I have seen people express this opinion many times over at DN.

I started having problems with their writing from when I read the Legends series, a bit more in Hunters and especially high in Sandworms.

As to the point about more books coming out leading to more people being into the series, well that may be true to an extent. Seems to me though, the majority is in favour of those who don't read. More books in a series does more to put them off trying the series in the first place. Its like Lord of the Rings. For years before the films came out, I would try get people to read them. "1000 pages? Pfft, no chance."

Which leads me to the point of film and enticing an audience to a book. Or I should say, enticing an audience away from books. It seems obvious that films have more a negative than a positive effect on the novels on which they were based for the large part.
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Postby GamePlayer » 10 Jul 2008 22:51

Well, that's the problem. The "as-long-as-any-old-crap-will-do" school of thought is an ultimately self-defeating scam of diminishing returns. No matter how much material you produce, eventually people will get sick of it. Problem is in our mediocre times, those diminishing returns can be profitable for years and years before drying up. And sadly, that duration is increasing as we go on.

You are the exception to the rule and as time goes on you're being outnumbered more and more. But not to worry, the state of things will eventually crash, as it always does. Just too bad we have to bear witness to the long downward spiral :)

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Postby Hunchback Jack » 11 Jul 2008 00:46

Pushtrak wrote:It seems obvious that films have more a negative than a positive effect on the novels on which they were based for the large part.


I'm not so sure about this (although I agreed with everything else you wrote). Anyone who sees a movie and doesn't read the book probably wouldn't have read it anyway (unless they didn't like the movie, I guess). But certainly those who see the movie, and like to read, might later pick up the book.

I don't think many people who enjoy reading see movies as a substitute.

From the article:

"Who has a better chance of being read fifty years from now," she asks, "A Talented Author who writes (and publishes) one short story a year or Kevin J. Anderson?" Obviously, Rusch's argument leads to this emphatically indisputable answer (or so Rusch would like readers to believe): "Well, that's a no-brainer. Kevin J. Anderson, of course."


Are you kidding me? The chance that any author today will be read in fifty years is vanishingly small. And all due respect to Mr. Anderson for being able to make a living from his writing, but I seriously doubt his work will stand the test of time. Star Wars? X-files? Seven Suns? No, no no. *Maybe* his Dune novels, but *only* because *Dune* has been read for forty years, and will probably be read for fifty more.

HBJ

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Postby orald » 11 Jul 2008 11:27

GP wrote:You are the exception to the rule and as time goes on you're being outnumbered more and more. But not to worry, the state of things will eventually crash, as it always does. Just too bad we have to bear witness to the long downward spiral :)

Karlizak will come! :o
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.



I wish I could have been with you that one last time.

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Postby SandChigger » 11 Jul 2008 11:48

Who will come? :?
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby orald » 11 Jul 2008 11:51

He, if you build it.
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.



I wish I could have been with you that one last time.

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Spicelon
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Postby Spicelon » 13 Jul 2008 10:43

THis person obviously doesn't get it.

http://ed-rex.livejournal.com/140970.html
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Postby Nekhrun » 13 Jul 2008 10:51

Spicelon wrote:THis person obviously doesn't get it.

http://ed-rex.livejournal.com/140970.html

I hate that kid.

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Postby orald » 13 Jul 2008 14:12

Seems like someone doesn't realize what's the governing system he's in. :roll:

Maybe if FH called it a "Galactic Republic" and put some lame, powerless senate in there, some more explosions and "woosh" sounds in space then he'll get the picture.

Oooooh...so that's why KJA is writing New Dune! :o
In memory of Perach, who suffered and died needlessly.



I wish I could have been with you that one last time.

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Postby Omphalos » 13 Jul 2008 18:50

Spicelon wrote:THis person obviously doesn't get it.

http://ed-rex.livejournal.com/140970.html


What a douche. He knows nothing.

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Postby SandChigger » 13 Jul 2008 18:53

Nekhrun wrote:
Spicelon wrote:THis person obviously doesn't get it.

http://ed-rex.livejournal.com/140970.html

I hate that kid.

Is he really a kid, and not 42?

I'm confoosed. :?
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

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Postby Phaedrus » 13 Jul 2008 21:14

In other news, he incorrectly calls Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun a five volume series. It's only 4.

Judging from the lack of content on the other books he's supposedly read, I'd say the lack of "getting it" goes pretty deep.
You aren't thinking or really existing unless you're willing to risk even your own sanity in the judgment of your existence.


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