posts that I think will get deleted at DN

Image
    Can't find the appropriate forum for your topic? Post it here!

Moderators: ᴶᵛᵀᴬ, Omphalos, Freakzilla

Bearded Kirklander

Postby Bearded Kirklander » 19 Oct 2008 08:18

Serkanner wrote:You have arrived here on the board where fans of the original books of Dune by Frank Herbert gather. We have some rather outspoken opinions about the atrocities that are being published with the name Dune on it.

If you don't know what OH stands for then your aren't one.

I don't know who you are and we have never met, but opening a topic called: "Marie Fenring vs Ender Wiggin - SmackDown of the 6 year olds" is a dead giveaway about a severe lack of taste in literature and for me a reason to make as much fun about you as possible.

I also suggest you try to read Dune again and a bit more closely this time. You might end up understanding the word Sietch which is a rather important part of the book.


Wow. Tough Audience.

I do not feel I have a lack of taste in literature. But I do like to have fun and enjoy the works, even to the point of satire.

I don't understand why everything has to be so serious and why insults and incredulity come so easily to mind for some fans.

I do not mean to be insulting - I appreciate the works a great deal - but I'm not an obsessive fan. I'm just a fan. The type of fan who thinks it can be funny to watch blooper reels and out-takes for a good laugh or chuckle.

I would hope that there is room on various dune fan forums for a bit of levity along with the serious discussions that exist there.

Perhaps I'm simply not the type of fan who is welcome at either of the two sites I have initially found.

I don't understand why, but if that is the reality I face, then I will perhaps opt not to contribute much in the near future.

User avatar
DuneFishUK
Posts: 1988
Joined: 25 May 2008 14:14
Location: Cool Britannia
Contact:

Postby DuneFishUK » 19 Oct 2008 08:20

Serkanner wrote:I also suggest you try to read Dune again and a bit more closely this time.


Best advice ever :P Dune rewards re-reading massively. The Legends series might work as a stand-alone series, but at least understand why they misrepresent fully developed concepts from the originals.

Bearded Kirklander

Postby Bearded Kirklander » 19 Oct 2008 08:22

DuneFishUK wrote:If there's an abbreviation you're unsure about check the abbreviation thread :wink: http://www.jacurutu.com/viewtopic.php?t=367


Thank you kindly.

OH = Orthodoxed Herbertarian

I assume this means that a fan who is identified as an OH has very strict beliefs as to what is "Canon" and what is not "Canon" and may feel that any works that do not fall into the "Canon" territory are to be ignored or discarded?

Bearded Kirklander

Postby Bearded Kirklander » 19 Oct 2008 08:30

DuneFishUK wrote:
Serkanner wrote:I also suggest you try to read Dune again and a bit more closely this time.


Best advice ever :P Dune rewards re-reading massively. The Legends series might work as a stand-alone series, but at least understand why they misrepresent fully developed concepts from the originals.


Having just completed "Paul of Dune", I am just starting to listen to a 1993 Unabridged reading by George Guidall, which should help refresh my memory.

It has been quite some time since I have actually sat down and read / listened to the original works.

That said, perhaps my lack of condemnation of "Non-Canon" works will make any comments I choose to post fairly unpopular here, and at the Dune Novels site.

Again, I might have to reconsider my level of participation in forums where my personality traits are not welcome, if that is indeed the case.

I simply didn't expect this much hostility.

It reminds me of the early days when I would ask n00b questions about Linux and get hammered by the "Linux Elite". It took a lot of the fun out of the exerience. Apparently, questioning the need to recompile the kernel and wishing for a unified package management / software installation and removal process is so radical that it is deemed offensive.

Alas...

I feel as though I have already worn out any welcome that I may have had. It is quite disappointing.

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18160
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Postby Freakzilla » 19 Oct 2008 09:57

Bearded Kirklander wrote:
Serkanner wrote:You have arrived here on the board where fans of the original books of Dune by Frank Herbert gather. We have some rather outspoken opinions about the atrocities that are being published with the name Dune on it.

If you don't know what OH stands for then your aren't one.

I don't know who you are and we have never met, but opening a topic called: "Marie Fenring vs Ender Wiggin - SmackDown of the 6 year olds" is a dead giveaway about a severe lack of taste in literature and for me a reason to make as much fun about you as possible.

I also suggest you try to read Dune again and a bit more closely this time. You might end up understanding the word Sietch which is a rather important part of the book.


Wow. Tough Audience.

I do not feel I have a lack of taste in literature. But I do like to have fun and enjoy the works, even to the point of satire.

I don't understand why everything has to be so serious and why insults and incredulity come so easily to mind for some fans.

I do not mean to be insulting - I appreciate the works a great deal - but I'm not an obsessive fan. I'm just a fan. The type of fan who thinks it can be funny to watch blooper reels and out-takes for a good laugh or chuckle.

I would hope that there is room on various dune fan forums for a bit of levity along with the serious discussions that exist there.

Perhaps I'm simply not the type of fan who is welcome at either of the two sites I have initially found.

I don't understand why, but if that is the reality I face, then I will perhaps opt not to contribute much in the near future.


Please forgive the fanatical behaivior. I think maybe you just caught Serkanner in a bad mood, he's normally a decent guy, apart from the fanaticism. You don't have to be an "OH" to post here, just keep in mind most of us are. You're welcome to post about the Dune books not written by Frank Herbert but unless you're pointing out an inconsistancy or similar you might get a slightly negative response except from a few closet Prequelites. At least here, unlike DuneNovels, your post won't get deleted if we don't like it. We may tear it apart if we don't agree but you're welcome to put it up there.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14490
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"
Contact:

Postby SandChigger » 19 Oct 2008 09:59

Yes, some of us love to shred things. A lot. (But that's what mandibles are for, right? :twisted: )

I'm still trying to work out how you can be over-zealous but not obsessive...

Anyway...I'm always the bug, never the windshield. :D

(Someday I hope to be the car crash...and not just the traffic jam! Anyone recognize that one? :P )

But welcome to our "C.H." either way.

(Less funny than I thought this morning if you're serious about your eyes, of course. Um...this is the first time I've heard diabetes-related eye problems described as a "sugar build-up in the eyes", though, but maybe that's what's in cataracts? Cataracts, glaucoma and retinopathy are the problems I've heard of.)

Not much point in starting on the Legends books or Pile of Dung stuff if you're going away....
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18160
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Postby Freakzilla » 19 Oct 2008 10:03

SandChigger wrote:I'm still trying to work out how you can be over-zealous but not obsessive...


This has a very zen feel to it. :)
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

Bearded Kirklander

Postby Bearded Kirklander » 19 Oct 2008 10:13

SandChigger wrote:(Less funny than I thought this morning if you're serious about your eyes, of course. Um...this is the first time I've heard diabetes-related eye problems described as a "sugar build-up in the eyes", though, but maybe that's what's in cataracts? Cataracts, glaucoma and retinopathy are the problems I've heard of.)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetic_retinopathy

Small blood vessels – such as those in the eye – are especially vulnerable to poor blood sugar (blood glucose) control. An overaccumulation of glucose and/or fructose damages the tiny blood vessels in the retina. During the initial stage, called nonproliferative diabetic retinopathy (NPDR), most people do not notice any change in their vision.


There's more on that page. It's just an odd thing to have happen. Sometimes there are small "particle" type things that float around and interfere with my vision. It doesn't happen as often as it used to, and it's pretty much limited to my left eye for now, but it does kind of freak you out when it first starts happening.

That's one reason that I enjoy Unabridged Audio Books. Plus, a good Narrator can really bring the material to life. And Scott Brick is one of my faves - perhaps the single best Narrator overall. He's so good that Stephen R Donaldson made an exclusive arrangement to have Scott narrate the ENTIRE 10 book series for Thomas Covenant.

I do like Richard Ferrone and the Prey novels from John Sandford that he has done. I also think David Aaron Baker did a good job with Odd Thomas, though I only really liked the first book.

Anyway, enough rambling. It's time for breakfast. :)

Bearded Kirklander

Postby Bearded Kirklander » 19 Oct 2008 10:19

Freakzilla wrote:Please forgive the fanatical behaivior. I think maybe you just caught Serkanner in a bad mood, he's normally a decent guy, apart from the fanaticism. You don't have to be an "OH" to post here, just keep in mind most of us are. You're welcome to post about the Dune books not written by Frank Herbert but unless you're pointing out an inconsistancy or similar you might get a slightly negative response except from a few closet Prequelites. At least here, unlike DuneNovels, your post won't get deleted if we don't like it. We may tear it apart if we don't agree but you're welcome to put it up there.


So the bulk of folks here are "Canon" type of fans then?

Where the original works are sacred and any new material that deviates from the confines of the original material is frowned upon?

Like Erasmus not being part of the original Dune novel (at least I don't think he was). Norma Senva becoming the first Guild Navigator - that kind of stuff?

As long as I know the boundries I can hopefully duck and weave and not get nailed by posting "Non-Canon" stuff.

Thanks

User avatar
TheDukester
Posts: 3808
Joined: 20 Jun 2008 13:44
Location: Operation Enduring Bacon
Contact:

Postby TheDukester » 19 Oct 2008 11:07

BK,

A few thoughts, in no particular order:

1. Have you listened to the full-cast audio versions that have been released over the past couple of years? I've only done the first two books (and by that I mean Dune and Dune Messiah; I don't truck with that other stuff), but I thought each was excellent.

2. "Canon" is far too narrow a definition for much of the prevailing attitude here. We're not just arguing about what is or is not "official" Dune. For one thing, that would be a very short discussion: if FH wrote it, it's canon; if his idiot son or a rent-a-hack wrote it, it's bad fanfic. Boom. End of discussion.

No, what you'll also find here is dismay over how truly awful the new books are and what amazingly poor "writers" the Hiking Hack and His Faithful Sidekick are.

It would be one thing if the Herbert family treasured the Dune legacy and had eventually decided to continue the series with a talented writer who also understood the importance of the project he was being entrusted with. Instead, the HLP hires the brain-dead offspring and (since he clearly is almost completely talent-free) then adds the biggest hack working in the field today, a man who is legendary for his sheer speed, indifference to editing, and his quantity-trumps-quality view of literature.

And so we get McDune. One rush-job per year, like clockwork, from two clowns who, at times, appear to not even have read Dune. And, thus, the Dune legacy gets cheapened more and more every year by a group of dickheads whose sole interest is their bank accounts. Forget about "canon"; that's not even the issue, really. You'll find the bigger concern here is the Herbert trust allowing Kevin J. Anderson to transform Dune into a ridiculous cartoon for his slack-jawed, 12-year-old readers.

3. As Freak mentioned, this is not a closed forum, unlike that cesspool at dunenovels.com. Posts and threads do not get deleted here; I've never even seen that happen once.

However, there's also a certain reality to consider. This site definitely leads toward an OH point of view and a sincere dislike of Kevvie and Tonto, and that's unlikely to change anytime soon. Anyone who comes here and posts "KJA is teh r0xxZ0rZ!!" is likely to need asbestos armor to hold back the flames that will be coming. At that point, it will be up to that individual as to whether or not continuing here is worth their effort.
"Anything I write will be remembered and listed in bibliographies on Dune for several hundred years ..." — some delusional halfwit troll.

User avatar
SandRider
Watermaster
Posts: 6163
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
Location: In the back of your mind. Always.
Contact:

Postby SandRider » 19 Oct 2008 12:11


post self-deleted !

Last edited by SandRider on 20 Oct 2008 02:53, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
GamePlayer
70mm God
Posts: 2993
Joined: 09 Feb 2008 11:26
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Postby GamePlayer » 19 Oct 2008 15:28

Bearded Kirklander wrote:I feel as though I have already worn out any welcome that I may have had. It is quite disappointing.


If you really believe that and are ready to give up so quickly, one has to wonder at your motives for even coming here. No offense :)
"They can chew you up, but they gotta spit you out."

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18160
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Postby Freakzilla » 19 Oct 2008 15:37

Bearded Kirklander wrote:
Freakzilla wrote:Please forgive the fanatical behaivior. I think maybe you just caught Serkanner in a bad mood, he's normally a decent guy, apart from the fanaticism. You don't have to be an "OH" to post here, just keep in mind most of us are. You're welcome to post about the Dune books not written by Frank Herbert but unless you're pointing out an inconsistancy or similar you might get a slightly negative response except from a few closet Prequelites. At least here, unlike DuneNovels, your post won't get deleted if we don't like it. We may tear it apart if we don't agree but you're welcome to put it up there.


So the bulk of folks here are "Canon" type of fans then?

Where the original works are sacred and any new material that deviates from the confines of the original material is frowned upon?

Like Erasmus not being part of the original Dune novel (at least I don't think he was). Norma Senva becoming the first Guild Navigator - that kind of stuff?

As long as I know the boundries I can hopefully duck and weave and not get nailed by posting "Non-Canon" stuff.

Thanks


You got it. As TheDukester wrote, only the books and short stories by FH are canon to most of us.

I think most of us have most of (if not all) the new books and I'm sure someone will be happy to rant about them at you.

By the way, there are no inconsistancies in FH books, Farok had three arms. :wink:
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14490
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"
Contact:

Postby SandChigger » 19 Oct 2008 15:47

Bearded Kirklander wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetic_retinopathy

Small blood vessels – such as those in the eye – are especially vulnerable to poor blood sugar (blood glucose) control. An overaccumulation of glucose and/or fructose damages the tiny blood vessels in the retina. During the initial stage, called nonproliferative diabetic retinopathy (NPDR), most people do not notice any change in their vision.

Ah, well, there you have it. Learn something every day! :)

Never bothered looking into the diabetic variety, since mine was hypertensive. (And, as of mid-September, after a year of controlling my BP with meds and diet, completely gone. And the health check at work last week showed no sign of diabetes, so unless someone pokes me in the eye with a pointy stick....)


(Hey, SandRider! I wondered where you'd gotten to. So where were you, huh? :D )
Last edited by SandChigger on 20 Oct 2008 03:34, edited 1 time in total.
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

Bearded Kirklander

Postby Bearded Kirklander » 19 Oct 2008 17:03

GamePlayer wrote:
Bearded Kirklander wrote:I feel as though I have already worn out any welcome that I may have had. It is quite disappointing.


If you really believe that and are ready to give up so quickly, one has to wonder at your motives for even coming here. No offense :)


What possible motives could I have? It's a freakin' series of books, not some majestic religious discovery.

I found this place via a google search and bam, find that someone was ripping me to shreds for posting on the official Dune Novels site. Why the hell would anyone care about what someone posts on a site you guys don't even like?

It's like you guys have a hardcore, piss-poor attitude, and don't seem that interested in the fact that I might actually find something entertaining in the series, canon or no canon.

Me? I'm a fan. You guys? You seem to be fanatical, and that negative vibe is just not necessary.

This just ain't the place for me to be visitin'. You all are too harsh.

User avatar
TheDukester
Posts: 3808
Joined: 20 Jun 2008 13:44
Location: Operation Enduring Bacon
Contact:

Postby TheDukester » 19 Oct 2008 17:23

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Whatever.
"Anything I write will be remembered and listed in bibliographies on Dune for several hundred years ..." — some delusional halfwit troll.

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18160
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Postby Freakzilla » 19 Oct 2008 17:24

I'm sorry you feel that way. I hope you stay and give us another chance.
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
DuneFishUK
Posts: 1988
Joined: 25 May 2008 14:14
Location: Cool Britannia
Contact:

Postby DuneFishUK » 19 Oct 2008 17:35

Bearded Kirklander wrote:It's a freakin' series of books, not some majestic religious discovery.


Well.... what?! You mean you don't believe in the LITERAL word of Frank Herbert? :wink:


(Stick around though - if you want to discuss Dune, you're in the right place.)

User avatar
Freakzilla
Lead Singer and Driver of the Winnebego
Posts: 18160
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 01:27
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Contact:

Postby Freakzilla » 19 Oct 2008 18:21

Bearded Kirklander wrote:It's like you guys have a hardcore, piss-poor attitude, and don't seem that interested in the fact that I might actually find something entertaining in the series, canon or no canon.


I'd just like to add that the negative attitude of some here comes from relations with KJA and certain members of the HLP as well as a general dislike for the new books. It's gone beyond dislike, now it's personal.

:wink:
Image
Paul of Dune was so bad it gave me a seizure that dislocated both of my shoulders and prolapsed my anus.
~Pink Snowman

User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14490
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"
Contact:

Postby SandChigger » 19 Oct 2008 18:49

Jacurutu...not for the faint of heart.


Looks like he's made it safely back home to DN. (I was a bit worried. There are a lot of train tracks between here and there.) Mama Byron has opened his arms and hugged him welcome and gently explained what OH means.

Once again, all is right with the world. :D
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

User avatar
Mr. Teg
Moderator
Posts: 699
Joined: 11 Feb 2008 10:14
Location: Chair
Contact:

Postby Mr. Teg » 19 Oct 2008 19:00

GamePlayer wrote:
Bearded Kirklander wrote:I feel as though I have already worn out any welcome that I may have had. It is quite disappointing.


If you really believe that and are ready to give up so quickly, one has to wonder at your motives for even coming here. No offense :)


Exactly.

"Oh, I didn't know my kind of personality wouldn't be liked and receive such an angry reception, guess there's no room for middle ground ideas on this board."

This is what they want others to read on our board so we look bad.
CHOAM
Combine Herbert Ober Anderson Mercantile, Narf!
Brian, Kevin & Byron Image The HLP

User avatar
SandChigger
KJASF Ground Zero
Posts: 14490
Joined: 08 Feb 2008 22:29
Location: "Whatcha having, shoog? Hurry up and order now, I ain't got all day!"
Contact:

Postby SandChigger » 19 Oct 2008 19:21

Also, most people lurk on a board and read past posts there for a while before joining and posting, so they get an idea of what kind of place they are joining.

And it has become a quasi-tradition here for people to start a self-introduction thead and tell us a little about themselves. NOT a requirement, of course!
I have heard of only one mistake that doesn’t have an explanation for a careful reader...with an open mind. (And, no, I’m not going to tell you what it is!) —KJA

I don't like every writer's style; for instance, I have never been able to get through Ursula LeGuin, China Mieville, or Iain Banks, all of whom are critical darlings. —KJA

I...had written a bunch of Star Wars and X-Files books...that proved not just that I'm a hack, but that I could write in somebody else's universe... —KJA

User avatar
Omphalos
Inglorious Bastard
Posts: 6628
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 11:07
Location: The Mighty Central Valley of California
Contact:

Postby Omphalos » 19 Oct 2008 19:22

Don't worry. He will get bored and come back. And maybe then his skin will be a bit thicker. After all, its not like anyone is actually going to discuss Dune with him over at DN.

User avatar
SandRider
Watermaster
Posts: 6163
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 16:14
Location: In the back of your mind. Always.
Contact:

Postby SandRider » 20 Oct 2008 00:07

Bearded Kirklander wrote: It's a freakin' series of books, not some majestic religious discovery.


I beg to differ ....

User avatar
Serkanner
Posts: 2830
Joined: 17 Feb 2008 18:44
Location: Den Haag - The Netherlands

Postby Serkanner » 20 Oct 2008 03:42

:lol: ...

A funny anecdote: a former account of me was banned/deleted on Dumbnovels when I mentioned an answer by Byron to a legit question was evasive.

Here we have the Bearded woman feeling insulted when I am not as evasive as Byron usually is. I think bearded's heading back to the Dumbnovels was the right choice by and for him ...
"... the mystery of life isn't a problem to solve but a reality to experience."

“There is no escape—we pay for the violence of our ancestors.”

Sandrider: "Keith went to Bobo's for a weekend of drinking, watched some DVDs,
and wrote a Dune Novel."


Return to “˱”