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    Shields, How slow is slow?

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    Shields, How slow is slow?

    Postby Laphtiya » 24 Sep 2008 07:31

    I was thinking about this the other day when reading about shield combat. How slow do you have to be to penetrate a shield? Are there different levels of setting? I remember reading that the Barron Harkonnen always had his shield set on a very low setting to give him some protection against attack.

    This is just for the story that I am working on here:

    http://www.jacurutu.com/viewtopic.php?t=825

    I want to get some shield action in there at some point but I just need to know so it flows, how slow do you actually have to attack.
    Last edited by Laphtiya on 29 Sep 2008 05:21, edited 1 time in total.
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    Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 24 Sep 2008 08:55

    Dune, Terminology of the Imperium wrote:SHIELD, DEFENSIVE: the protective field produced by a Holtzman generator. This
    field derives from Phase One of the suspensor-nullification effect. A shield
    will permit entry only to objects moving at slow speeds (depending on setting,
    this speed ranges from six to nine centimeters per second) and can be shorted
    out only by a shire-sized electric field. (See Lasgun.)
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    Postby Laphtiya » 24 Sep 2008 10:37

    Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:
    Dune, Terminology of the Imperium wrote:SHIELD, DEFENSIVE: the protective field produced by a Holtzman generator. This
    field derives from Phase One of the suspensor-nullification effect. A shield
    will permit entry only to objects moving at slow speeds (depending on setting,
    this speed ranges from six to nine centimeters per second) and can be shorted
    out only by a shire-sized electric field. (See Lasgun.)


    Hmmm that is quite slow then from a close quaters combat POV. That would suggest that a defender would strike at an attack quickly with a limb to deflect the blow (might be risky though). Thanks for that info :) it will help alot
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    on the shields

    Postby Sole Man » 24 Sep 2008 14:42

    Imagine how painful that would be if it broke through. they would have to slowly sink thier blade into youyou...
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    Postby chanilover » 24 Sep 2008 14:54

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    Postby Laphtiya » 24 Sep 2008 15:06

    I was thinking that before. It would be extreamly painful, but here is a question. What would happen say if you got half way past a shield then went faster than the "speed limit"? Would your hand get stuck or forced out by the shield?
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    Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 24 Sep 2008 15:17

    Well, in my way to see it, I think one time the point of your blade have been reached the speed necessary to pass through the shield you can increase the speed, because you have already opened a "hole"in the shield, understand?

    Another idea:
    One thing is trying to pass through the shield hitting your blade on it (instantaneous pressure), another thing is make continous pressure over the shield. Continous pressure is not speed, so I think you could pass through it. Who agree with me?


    Laphtiya wrote:
    Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:
    Dune, Terminology of the Imperium wrote:SHIELD, DEFENSIVE: the protective field produced by a Holtzman generator. This
    field derives from Phase One of the suspensor-nullification effect. A shield
    will permit entry only to objects moving at slow speeds (depending on setting,
    this speed ranges from six to nine centimeters per second) and can be shorted
    out only by a shire-sized electric field. (See Lasgun.)


    Hmmm that is quite slow then from a close quaters combat POV. That would suggest that a defender would strike at an attack quickly with a limb to deflect the blow (might be risky though). Thanks for that info :) it will help alot


    No problem! :)
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 24 Sep 2008 15:51

    Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:Well, in my way to see it, I think one time the point of your blade have been reached the speed necessary to pass through the shield you can increase the speed, because you have already opened a "hole"in the shield, understand?

    Another idea:
    One thing is trying to pass through the shield hitting your blade on it (instantaneous pressure), another thing is make continous pressure over the shield. Continous pressure is not speed, so I think you could pass through it. Who agree with me?


    Laphtiya wrote:
    Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:
    Dune, Terminology of the Imperium wrote:SHIELD, DEFENSIVE: the protective field produced by a Holtzman generator. This
    field derives from Phase One of the suspensor-nullification effect. A shield
    will permit entry only to objects moving at slow speeds (depending on setting,
    this speed ranges from six to nine centimeters per second) and can be shorted
    out only by a shire-sized electric field. (See Lasgun.)


    Hmmm that is quite slow then from a close quaters combat POV. That would suggest that a defender would strike at an attack quickly with a limb to deflect the blow (might be risky though). Thanks for that info :) it will help alot


    No problem! :)


    Agreed on the second point, and I'm honestly not sure on the first point - though I think that you would have to keep stabbing slowly to avoid being seized up, but I could be wrong.
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    Postby Freakzilla » 24 Sep 2008 16:59

    But there's also discription of the air inside the shield becoming stale because of the slow interchange of molecules through the shield. So there has to be some space between the body and the inside of the shield.
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    Postby Laphtiya » 24 Sep 2008 17:03

    Freakzilla wrote:But there's also discription of the air inside the shield becoming stale because of the slow interchange of molecules through the shield. So there has to be some space between the body and the inside of the shield.


    I always imagined it as up to an inch from the body at maximum.
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    Postby Rakis » 24 Sep 2008 23:01

    Laphtiya wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:But there's also discription of the air inside the shield becoming stale because of the slow interchange of molecules through the shield. So there has to be some space between the body and the inside of the shield.


    I always imagined it as up to an inch from the body at maximum.


    Like that scene at the beginning of the mini Dune 2000? I think it was a good representation...
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    Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 24 Sep 2008 23:10

    Rakis wrote:
    Laphtiya wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:But there's also discription of the air inside the shield becoming stale because of the slow interchange of molecules through the shield. So there has to be some space between the body and the inside of the shield.


    I always imagined it as up to an inch from the body at maximum.


    Like that scene at the beginning of the mini Dune 2000? I think it was a good representation...


    What scene? Do you have any link to it on the web (youtube,...)?
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    Postby Rakis » 24 Sep 2008 23:25

    Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:
    Rakis wrote:
    Laphtiya wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:But there's also discription of the air inside the shield becoming stale because of the slow interchange of molecules through the shield. So there has to be some space between the body and the inside of the shield.


    I always imagined it as up to an inch from the body at maximum.


    Like that scene at the beginning of the mini Dune 2000? I think it was a good representation...


    What scene? Do you have any link to it on the web (youtube,...)?


    No, i don't have a link...It's that scene when Paul is fighting Gurney with Thufir watching. Both are using a small shield, close to the body.
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    Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 24 Sep 2008 23:27

    I will search for it, thanks! :P
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    Postby Laphtiya » 25 Sep 2008 02:50

    Rakis wrote:
    Laphtiya wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:But there's also discription of the air inside the shield becoming stale because of the slow interchange of molecules through the shield. So there has to be some space between the body and the inside of the shield.


    I always imagined it as up to an inch from the body at maximum.


    Like that scene at the beginning of the mini Dune 2000? I think it was a good representation...


    Yes I thought that the shields were one of the good things about the mini series. I love and hate the mini series because some things were so spot on and yet the things that were off were WAY off. Like Fremen being out in the open with no stillsuits.

    But ye sthe shields were one of the things I thought were done well. Shame we didn't see more shield use in that series.
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    Postby inhuien » 25 Sep 2008 04:31

    chanilover wrote:Who is Youyou?


    Yoyo's younger sister.
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    Postby Rakis » 25 Sep 2008 22:33

    inhuien wrote:
    chanilover wrote:Who is Youyou?


    Yoyo's younger sister.


    Part of the YaYa Sisterhood? :|
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    on shields

    Postby Sole Man » 26 Sep 2008 14:59

    The title of this article should have been "How slow is Sloe..."
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    Postby Laphtiya » 26 Sep 2008 15:05

    Getting BACK on topic, I have another question about shields.

    How much damage can they take. For instance can a big enough attack get through? as in explosives, a really heavy object falling on them?

    I do remember reading that they have a charge but that was about it.
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 26 Sep 2008 15:10

    Laphtiya wrote:Getting BACK on topic, I have another question about shields.

    How much damage can they take. For instance can a big enough attack get through? as in explosives, a really heavy object falling on them?

    I do remember reading that they have a charge but that was about it.


    I'm pretty sure you could drop a nuke, or at least a powerful explosive on one and it'd be fine, there is mention that shields made even heavy artillery obsolete in Dune.
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    Postby Laphtiya » 26 Sep 2008 15:16

    A Thing of Eternity wrote:
    Laphtiya wrote:Getting BACK on topic, I have another question about shields.

    How much damage can they take. For instance can a big enough attack get through? as in explosives, a really heavy object falling on them?

    I do remember reading that they have a charge but that was about it.


    I'm pretty sure you could drop a nuke, or at least a powerful explosive on one and it'd be fine, there is mention that shields made even heavy artillery obsolete in Dune.


    Thats interesting, but what about personal shields how much of a beating could they take?
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    Postby A Thing of Eternity » 26 Sep 2008 15:23

    Laphtiya wrote:
    A Thing of Eternity wrote:
    Laphtiya wrote:Getting BACK on topic, I have another question about shields.

    How much damage can they take. For instance can a big enough attack get through? as in explosives, a really heavy object falling on them?

    I do remember reading that they have a charge but that was about it.


    I'm pretty sure you could drop a nuke, or at least a powerful explosive on one and it'd be fine, there is mention that shields made even heavy artillery obsolete in Dune.


    Thats interesting, but what about personal shields how much of a beating could they take?


    I got the impression that any sized shield can stop pretty much infinitely powerful blows as long as they have power left - whether more powerful blows cause more battery depletion I don't know.
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    On the above comment

    Postby Sole Man » 27 Sep 2008 10:41

    That's how those things usually work.
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    Postby Lisan Al-Gaib » 27 Sep 2008 20:03

    Rakis wrote:
    Lisan Al-Gaib wrote:
    Rakis wrote:
    Laphtiya wrote:
    Freakzilla wrote:But there's also discription of the air inside the shield becoming stale because of the slow interchange of molecules through the shield. So there has to be some space between the body and the inside of the shield.


    I always imagined it as up to an inch from the body at maximum.


    Like that scene at the beginning of the mini Dune 2000? I think it was a good representation...


    What scene? Do you have any link to it on the web (youtube,...)?


    No, i don't have a link...It's that scene when Paul is fighting Gurney with Thufir watching. Both are using a small shield, close to the body.


    I find it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTXtv8Q-pQA

    Yes, I imagine the body shield like in the mini too.

    I was thinking about another detail:
    Do you think the body shield enwrap the weapon and the hand together? Or enwrap only the hand, and the blade still out of the shield?
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    Postby Rakis » 28 Sep 2008 00:19

    It's hard to tell in the mini, but i would figure that the shield enwarp your hand only. I can't see how the shield would allow you to open it, from the inside,at the right angle, the right height,etc and then close it to protect you from an incoming blow...unless they are Star Trek shield... :)
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