Fremen for Dunies

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    Native inhabitants of Arrakis, descendants of the Zensunni Wanderers

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SandChigger
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Fremen for Dunies

Postby SandChigger » 20 Jun 2010 04:10

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Basic Expressions

Achlan [wa-sachlan]! Welcome [and doubly welcome]! (Pronounce ch like in Scottish loch or German Bach)
Achlan [wa-sachlan] bik[a]/biki/bikum! Welcome to you! (masc/fem/plural)
Achlan [wa-sachlan] fi sitshina! Welcome to our sietch! (-na suffix means "our" on nouns and "us" on verbs; -i- inserted to break up consonant cluster)
Marhaba! Welcome!

Subakh ul kuhar. Ritual Fremen greeting: "Are you well?"
Subakh un nar. Ritual response: "I am well."

Aywa. Yes. (Naam also means "yes" but is more formal.)
La. No.

Ma ismak? / Ismak ei? What is your name?
Ismi .... My name is ....

Shukran [jazilan]! Thank you [very much]!
Afwan! You're welcome!/Don't mention it!

Khalas!/Kifaya Stop! Enough!

(Ana) asif/asfa! (I'm) sorry! (masc/fem) (Nahnu or ihna) asfin! (We're) sorry! (pl)
Khatai! / Ghaltati! My mistake/error! (My bad!)

[Mish] arif I [don't] know.
Mish mushkila! No problem!

Maassalama! See you later!

Mabruk! Congratulations! Alf Mabruk! A thousand congratulations!

Kalam farigh. Empty words, empty prattle.

ahbal fool(ish), dumbass. (fem: habla) (adjective & noun)

Ma hadha? What is this?
Ma dhalika? What is that?


New Post Index:

(Second vocabulary list here.)

Fremen Conlang subdomain now online (but still under construction) on HToD.
Last edited by SandChigger on 07 Jan 2011 06:09, edited 7 times in total.

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lotek
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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby lotek » 20 Jun 2010 04:20

Shukran :D
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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby Freakzilla » 20 Jun 2010 04:22

Outstanding! :D
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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby MrFlibble » 20 Jun 2010 07:43

Great! :D Cool cover design, too :lol:
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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby D Pope » 20 Jun 2010 08:58

Well done mate! :clap:
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby SandChigger » 20 Jun 2010 09:37

(This is just the beginning. And as we all know, a beginning is the time... ;) )

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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby D Pope » 20 Jun 2010 09:45

You go Chigger! Jan Jan Jan!
Leto II is gone for good, except for OM. The "pearl" was just that; a miniscule portion of what Leto was, and not a compressed version of the whole. The pearl that the worms have do not make them Leto, or in any way similar to him.
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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby TheDukester » 20 Jun 2010 13:20

Nice!

Be sure to send Freakin Meow a copy ...
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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby Nekhrun » 20 Jun 2010 15:21

TheDukester wrote:Nice!

Be sure to send Freakin Meow a copy ...

Which of his three comments would he respond with if he saw it:

A) Valid Point
B) Stay tuned...
C) [Edited by Almighty Moderator]

I'm guessing he'd go for D) and ignore it completely.
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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby Omphalos » 20 Jun 2010 19:13

He'd steal it and post it at DN without credit.

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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby SandChigger » 20 Jun 2010 19:27

I figure that's what he'll end up doing with my new "Fremen & Arabic" resources page. (Did I post a note here about it, or just on the blog & over at FED2k? :? )

http://resources.hairyticksofdune.net/fremen.php

I based it on the list on Khalid Baheyeldin's page (not all of his items are added in yet, because I'm still checking some), and romanized everything (since I assume that not everybody reads the Arabic alphabet). I also include some things that Khalid doesn't have; I believe he still hasn't actually read the books. I also disagree with a couple of his entries. (Presumptuous, yes?)

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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby MrFlibble » 22 Jun 2010 05:48

Omphalos wrote:He'd steal it and post it at DN without credit.

Haha, that's very likely :lol:

On the other hand, he's bringing knowledge into the masses, who could be blamed for that? :roll:
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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby SandChigger » 22 Jun 2010 06:09

Yeah, there's always some way to put a positive spin on the most heinous actions, eh? :lol:

...

Added a couple items to the OP list. :)

Here's an all-play question:

How do you say "Fremen" in Fremen?

Now, "The Terminology of the Imperium" tells us that Misr is "the historical Zensunni (Fremen) term for themselves: 'The People.'" And that "Fremen" itself is defined as "the free tribes of Arrakis, dwellers in the desert, remnants of the Zensunni Wanderers. ('Sand Pirates' according to the Imperial Dictionary.)"

I've been thinking of Misr (adjective: Misri/Misriyya) as almost a kind of sietch name for the entire Fremen people, something that they wouldn't willingly reveal or use in front of complete outsiders. Which leaves "Fremen" as how they would refer to themselves otherwise.

"Fremen" is not Arabic in origin. If FH really intended it to be derived from "free men", then we have to consider it as something like hobbit in Tolkien: a name translated from a fictional universe language (probably Galach) into English ("Free-men") and then "weathered" over time into a new form ("Fremen"). So the "real" Duniverse word would most likely not sound anything like "Fremen". But since we don't know the original Galach term or its descendent form, we'll just have to make do with "Fremen".

I originally started using Faraman/i, by analogy with the Arabic for Yemen/i: Yaman/i. (The extra A between the F & R is necessary because Arabic words can't begin with two consonants.) But recently I've started using Firmani, since it's a little more compact and looks more similar to "Fremen" (and I like the sound better :P ).

Another possibility is Ifrimani, but that's kind-of even weirder looking, right?

It doesn't have to be an either-or situation. I'm just curious as to which version people like better. :)

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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby lotek » 22 Jun 2010 06:16

I like that one
Faraman/i


But if Fremen was the name they used for outsiders, wouldn't Faramani be a bit too close to Fremen to be a secret name?
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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby inhuien » 22 Jun 2010 06:32

lotek wrote:I like that one
Faraman/i


But if Fremen was the name they used for outsiders, wouldn't Faramani be a bit too close to Fremen to be a secret name?

Freman was the name that they used to address themselves to outsiders, and unless I've missread Sandchiggers post Faramani is his speculation of how one could say Freman in Freman.

But then I could be having a Soina moment.
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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby MrFlibble » 22 Jun 2010 06:37

lotek wrote:But if Fremen was the name they used for outsiders, wouldn't Faramani be a bit too close to Fremen to be a secret name?

If they called themselves Misr, then I don't think Fremen was a "secret" name. Also Stilgar refers to his tribesmen as "Druses", suggesting a particular religious alignment.

The question is, was "Fremen" a Galach word or not?
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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby lotek » 22 Jun 2010 06:39

aw riiight :)

I thought it was the speculation of their own secret name :)

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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby Nekhrun » 22 Jun 2010 07:08

MrFlibble wrote:
Omphalos wrote:He'd steal it and post it at DN without credit.

...he's bringing knowledge into the masses, who could be blamed for that? :roll:

I don't think he'd ever be accused of that.
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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby SandChigger » 22 Jun 2010 07:45

He might possibly do it by accident. But then again...


As far as "Fremen" being a Galach word, if you want to claim that it's derived from English free and men, then that's simply ridiculous and completely untenable after 20,000-plus years. (Of course, in a universe where you have people capable of accessing memories & languages thousands of years old, it's theoretically possible for someone to retrieve long-forgotten words & phrases, but even if the name were adopted by the Fremen after their Reverend Mothers achieved OM access, why would they, essentially Arabs, choose to self-identify using an English phrase?) If, instead, you derive it from something else and coincidentally end up with the sound sequence Fremen (whatever the underlying morphology), then sure, that's possible. It would just be a case of convergent linguistic evolution. :)

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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby MrFlibble » 22 Jun 2010 11:51

SandChigger wrote:As far as "Fremen" being a Galach word, if you want to claim that it's derived from English free and men, then that's simply ridiculous and completely untenable after 20,000-plus years.

No, my point was a bit different. For example, when Paul asks Hawat if they're going to meet the Fremen, he speaks Galach and uses a Galach word (I suppose). But do the Fremen use that word when they speak their own language? And if yes, was it borrowed from or into Galach?
WHAT IF YOU NO LONGER HEAR THE MUSIC OF LIFE?
MEMORIES ARE NOT ENOUGH UNLESS THEY CALL YOU TO NOBLE PURPOSE!

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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby Freakzilla » 22 Jun 2010 11:54

Didn't they call themselves the Ichwan Bedwine?
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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby SandChigger » 22 Jun 2010 16:23

(Sorry, that was the "general you" there, not YOU specifically, MrFlibble. I'll check later to see how many times a Fremen uses "Fremen" to refer to Fremen. :) )

Ichwan Bedwine is literally just the "Brotherhood of Beduins" or "Beduin Brotherhood". It's only used twice outside the Terminology, when Stilgar welcomes Paul into the tribe and in connection with Jamis after his death (he deserves a funeral as one of their "brothers"). Misr appears in the books even less.

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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby MrFlibble » 23 Jun 2010 08:25

By the way, regarding the idea that "Fremen" was actually a Galach word derived from English: I think such a possibility shouldn't be discarded (although certainly nothing in the books supports it). After all, modern languages have quite a few words borrowed from "dead" languages (with English generally having a very high number of Latin borrowings due to historical circumstances), and even some newly-coined words from old elements like automobile, so basically, if English in the Duniverse had been a high-esteemed literary language of the past (and there's no reason to believe it had not), and records of it were still accessible, then theoretically, there's nothing to preclude the possibility of borrowing an English word into Galach (which, being described as Inglo-Slavic, is a related language anyway) or creating a new word from English elements.
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Re: Fremen for Dunies

Postby SandChigger » 23 Jun 2010 12:53

Point taken. I guess the only objection I see to that is the sheer span of time involved, compared to the few hundred years between Latin and English (if you count from the Middle Ages or Renaissance when Latin was the academic lingua franca). The Zensunni began their wanderings around 1,400 years before the Butlerian Jihad, IIRC, but even that's over 9,000 years from now.
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Some more general vocabulary...

Postby SandChigger » 06 Oct 2010 22:08

Vocabulary List

abara he/it crossed (a physical space)
akhra/ukhra (ukhar) adj other (m/f (pl))
al- the; initial vowel dropped after a vowel; L assimilates to some following consonants (D DH L N R S SH T TH Z)
athar-dud wormsign
bilad the bled
bint (banat) daughter (daughters); girl (girls)
faqat only
Ghafran! Pardon me!/I beg your pardon!
hal word indicating a question
hatta prep until, up to; adv even
ibn (banun) son (sons)
ila to
irq erg
janib (jawanib) side (sides)
kafir (kafirun) infidel (infidels); unbeliever(s).
kalb (kilab) dog (dogs); kalba (kalbat) bitch (bitches)
khara feces, shit
kus (kusat) vagina, "the sea-word"
lam + imperfect = negative past (perfect)
lana to us; we have ~ = (there is) to us ~
li for; li + (a)l + verbal noun = (in order) to infinitive: li-l-wusul (in order) to reach
limadha why?
ma which
min from
mithla like
Mumtaz! Excellent!
raa (yara) he saw (he sees); lam yara-hu he did not see/has not seen it
umm (ummahat) mother (mothers); ummak your mother
wasala he reached, arrived, got to; wusul verbal noun reaching, arriving, getting to
Ya ~! vocative particle; used when calling [to] someone by name. Ya Muad'Dib! "Muad'Dib!/O Muad'Dib!"


Grammar Note

To modify one noun using another, to show possession, etc., simply place one noun after the other:

ibn Farok "Farok's son/son of Farok"; bint Otheym "Otheym's daughter/daughter of Otheym"
Last edited by SandChigger on 01 Feb 2011 09:40, edited 4 times in total.


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